Pastor N.B. here:
The hardest 'lesson' to accept is that there is a difference between hating sin & loving the sinner. ONLY a converted person can understand this!
And there is [NO] disdain on my part for any [poster] that I have read from here. (but we should quickly 'fess' up mistakes made)
Hate sin & Love the sinner? Case in point:
Los Angeles Times, 2/5/93 (in part)
Pope John Paul 11 sought common ground with believers in voodoo Thursday, suggesting they would not betray their traditional faith by converting to Christianity."
Again, it is not my agenda to read the Pope's mind, yet [the message] is the same one that seems to be comming across of this thread
You know? No law! ONLY BELIEVE IN CHRIST. Converting to Christianity or converting to 'c'hristianity? Which TWO here would be the leagalist, & why is the question.
***
-Added emphasis-
Now: On the other subject of law & Gospel. Everlasting has NO origin! Both are EVERLASTING. Rev. 14:6 & Heb. 13:20. Calvary was eternally forordained! It was only the 'plan' that was brought for as it was needed.
And, as EVERLASTING AS THIS GOSPEL IS, SO THE ETERNAL EVERLASTING LAW OF GOD WAS & IS!
If no law, there no sin, and no Gospel! And Christ need not have died! Read Rev. 22:9!) Please now, read it :
SIN: It has a start & it has a mature finish. A mature Christian or an mature sinner! (Cain for example, Israel of old for another, Lucifer for another)
"To him that KNOWEST to do good and [do it not] is sin" KNOWN SIN! OK: At the start of the converted ones new life, we sin perhaps daily without never knowing it. Now what does the above verse say, about KNOWING TO DO GOOD??
And then we see that sin that Peter did? "and he went out and wept bitterly"! We should feel agony when we SIN KNOWINGLY! Heb. 6:6.
Can we be forgiven for this sin? This is where it gets from Heb.5 to Heb. 6!
From milk to meat. Yes, in the early stages even this sin can be forgiven. But it is an very dangerous thing to Grieve & Quench the Holy Spirits leading. Rom. 8:14. If we steal today, it is easier to steal tomorrow! (and so on) And when we KNOW that sin is OPEN sin, and we still continue on, we are on dangerous ground! (Sunday sacredness for example)
Scripture please! James 2:10-12 for the above. And note this prayer of David? David was a sinner of open known sin. It was after this experience that the Psalms were written. (you do remember the Master telling Peter, [after] thou art converted, go teach the brethern?)
Anyway, in Psalms 19:13 we see the 'starting point of sin & the end results of sin'. Notice the Word 'ALSO FROM', & remember KNOWN SIN that BECOMES THAT OF PRESUMPTION!
"Keep back thy servant ALSO FROM 'presumptuous sins'; (even in the plural) let them not have 'dominion over me;' (remember these highlights)
then shall I be upright, and innocent from the GREAT TRANGRESSION."
Now, we surely know what we are being told by the Master Himself in Matt. 12:31-32. (Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost) And what the start of sin is. All & any sin, starts with the Eternal Royal Universal COVENANT. (Worlds created & only fallen angels, ok?) We are told that "sin is the trangression of the Law". They ALL have this Royal Law! Are they UNDER IT? NO, if they broke it they would be, they are at Liberty as they kept it. But sin will never arise a second time. ALL WILL BE TESTED AND BE MATURE IN CHRIST!
David stated in his (inspired) prayer to be kept 'also' from PRESUMPTIOUS sins'! This is the Quenched & Grieved away ending, of the MATURE Christian as well as the sinner. This is continuing on in sin regardless of what pain & grief it caused Christ upon the cross, years before! (pluss the GodHead!)
Last verses will be : John 5:16-17 in part, & verse 18 ibide. is explained in Phil. 4:12. "Not as though we had [already attained, either were already perfect: [BUT I FOLLOW AFTER].." GROWTH! CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT! Na. 1:9 "SIN WILL NOT ARISE THE SECOND TIME" (safe to save)
But lets not miss the point! Not PERFECT? But [FOLLOW AFTER!] Rom. 8:14 & Rom. 8:! Now comes to view in verse 15... ???
"Let us therefore, [as many as be perfect] be thus minded. and 'if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you'"
Then Paul in inspiration tells what we ARE, if 'IN' Christ Jesus? (still our 'free' choice!)
In verse 16 we see a contradiction as to what was seen in verse 12 of Phil. 3, for the 'unconverted' to understand?
He pen's:
"Nevertheless, whereto 'we have already attained,' let us' walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."
The verses of John 5:16-17 in part.
"If any man see his brother [sin a sin which IS NOT UNTO DEATH] (remember what Christ said about open blasphemy?) he shall ask, and [He shall give him life for them that sin 'not' unto death]. There [is a sin unto death.; I do not say that he shall pray for it.]
[ALL UNRIGHTOUSNESS IS SIN: (ten commandments, Rolal Law Breaking)
AND THERE IS A SIN UNTO DEATH."
Bottom Line: The Perfect created Angels sinned. They were not immediately
cast out of heaven. (How long was the Eternal Covenant & Eternal Gospel, in ETERNITY??)
They did not at first sin the sin against the Holy Ghost, but it was sin! From Matt. 25:1 we see a 50-50% ratio. But 1/3 were rejected in the 'final Mature' rejection of the Covenant of God & CHRIST. And yes, they were tested as well as we are, and the same provisions given to us was (and is) given to them! "IF" See Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 again.
In the Master's quickly fininishing work for the 'House of God First' (1 Peter 4:17)
Pastor N.B.
The hardest 'lesson' to accept is that there is a difference between hating sin & loving the sinner. ONLY a converted person can understand this!
And there is [NO] disdain on my part for any [poster] that I have read from here. (but we should quickly 'fess' up mistakes made)
Hate sin & Love the sinner? Case in point:
Los Angeles Times, 2/5/93 (in part)
Pope John Paul 11 sought common ground with believers in voodoo Thursday, suggesting they would not betray their traditional faith by converting to Christianity."
Again, it is not my agenda to read the Pope's mind, yet [the message] is the same one that seems to be comming across of this thread
You know? No law! ONLY BELIEVE IN CHRIST. Converting to Christianity or converting to 'c'hristianity? Which TWO here would be the leagalist, & why is the question.
***
-Added emphasis-
Now: On the other subject of law & Gospel. Everlasting has NO origin! Both are EVERLASTING. Rev. 14:6 & Heb. 13:20. Calvary was eternally forordained! It was only the 'plan' that was brought for as it was needed.
And, as EVERLASTING AS THIS GOSPEL IS, SO THE ETERNAL EVERLASTING LAW OF GOD WAS & IS!
If no law, there no sin, and no Gospel! And Christ need not have died! Read Rev. 22:9!) Please now, read it :
SIN: It has a start & it has a mature finish. A mature Christian or an mature sinner! (Cain for example, Israel of old for another, Lucifer for another)
"To him that KNOWEST to do good and [do it not] is sin" KNOWN SIN! OK: At the start of the converted ones new life, we sin perhaps daily without never knowing it. Now what does the above verse say, about KNOWING TO DO GOOD??
And then we see that sin that Peter did? "and he went out and wept bitterly"! We should feel agony when we SIN KNOWINGLY! Heb. 6:6.
Can we be forgiven for this sin? This is where it gets from Heb.5 to Heb. 6!
From milk to meat. Yes, in the early stages even this sin can be forgiven. But it is an very dangerous thing to Grieve & Quench the Holy Spirits leading. Rom. 8:14. If we steal today, it is easier to steal tomorrow! (and so on) And when we KNOW that sin is OPEN sin, and we still continue on, we are on dangerous ground! (Sunday sacredness for example)
Scripture please! James 2:10-12 for the above. And note this prayer of David? David was a sinner of open known sin. It was after this experience that the Psalms were written. (you do remember the Master telling Peter, [after] thou art converted, go teach the brethern?)
Anyway, in Psalms 19:13 we see the 'starting point of sin & the end results of sin'. Notice the Word 'ALSO FROM', & remember KNOWN SIN that BECOMES THAT OF PRESUMPTION!
"Keep back thy servant ALSO FROM 'presumptuous sins'; (even in the plural) let them not have 'dominion over me;' (remember these highlights)
then shall I be upright, and innocent from the GREAT TRANGRESSION."
Now, we surely know what we are being told by the Master Himself in Matt. 12:31-32. (Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost) And what the start of sin is. All & any sin, starts with the Eternal Royal Universal COVENANT. (Worlds created & only fallen angels, ok?) We are told that "sin is the trangression of the Law". They ALL have this Royal Law! Are they UNDER IT? NO, if they broke it they would be, they are at Liberty as they kept it. But sin will never arise a second time. ALL WILL BE TESTED AND BE MATURE IN CHRIST!
David stated in his (inspired) prayer to be kept 'also' from PRESUMPTIOUS sins'! This is the Quenched & Grieved away ending, of the MATURE Christian as well as the sinner. This is continuing on in sin regardless of what pain & grief it caused Christ upon the cross, years before! (pluss the GodHead!)
Last verses will be : John 5:16-17 in part, & verse 18 ibide. is explained in Phil. 4:12. "Not as though we had [already attained, either were already perfect: [BUT I FOLLOW AFTER].." GROWTH! CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT! Na. 1:9 "SIN WILL NOT ARISE THE SECOND TIME" (safe to save)
But lets not miss the point! Not PERFECT? But [FOLLOW AFTER!] Rom. 8:14 & Rom. 8:! Now comes to view in verse 15... ???
"Let us therefore, [as many as be perfect] be thus minded. and 'if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you'"
Then Paul in inspiration tells what we ARE, if 'IN' Christ Jesus? (still our 'free' choice!)
In verse 16 we see a contradiction as to what was seen in verse 12 of Phil. 3, for the 'unconverted' to understand?
He pen's:
"Nevertheless, whereto 'we have already attained,' let us' walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."
The verses of John 5:16-17 in part.
"If any man see his brother [sin a sin which IS NOT UNTO DEATH] (remember what Christ said about open blasphemy?) he shall ask, and [He shall give him life for them that sin 'not' unto death]. There [is a sin unto death.; I do not say that he shall pray for it.]
[ALL UNRIGHTOUSNESS IS SIN: (ten commandments, Rolal Law Breaking)
AND THERE IS A SIN UNTO DEATH."
Bottom Line: The Perfect created Angels sinned. They were not immediately
cast out of heaven. (How long was the Eternal Covenant & Eternal Gospel, in ETERNITY??)
They did not at first sin the sin against the Holy Ghost, but it was sin! From Matt. 25:1 we see a 50-50% ratio. But 1/3 were rejected in the 'final Mature' rejection of the Covenant of God & CHRIST. And yes, they were tested as well as we are, and the same provisions given to us was (and is) given to them! "IF" See Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 again.
In the Master's quickly fininishing work for the 'House of God First' (1 Peter 4:17)
Pastor N.B.
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