Propserity Gospel, Freemasonry, and Denials of Christian Teaching

Vow, thanks for your comments.

Firstly, you misquoted me. I never used capital G when I said "little god", but u misquote me by saying i said "little God". there's a big diff.

But as long as you can believe that Jesus has made you a king-priest and that you are in a better position than Adam was b4 he sinned (becos you are now seated with Christ in the heavenlies far above all pricipalities -- Adam was never given that position) that's good enough for me. However you want to term that position is up to you. I'd call it "little god" but that's my own (as well as many others in the faith movt) terminology.

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

1 Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood...

Well either you believe it and act like it or you dont. The choice is yours.

Umm..can you please put up the rest of the verse?

"...a holy nation, a peaople BELONGING to God, that you may declare the praises of him who calle dyou out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you where NOT a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not recieved mercy, but now you have received mercy."

This passage doesn't not say we are little gods. For in the definition of it, gods have power, etc. This passage makes it clear that we do not. This is a call to say we are owned by God, not little gods.

We sit with Christ in the heavenly places, but that doesn't make us a little god. Sorry, no dice

What does it mean to be thsi "royal preisthood"?

Thats explained in chapter 1:23
"For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperisahbe, through the living and enduring word of God."

Thought Christ we have eternal life to spend serving and praising God, this doesn't mean we are little Gods..just means we are God's elect, just like is said in the first verse of the book

another clue....

King of kings, Lord of lords.

them that have ears, let them hear.

Amen! He sure is the king of kings...he is over the king of england, King David, over the Lords of the feudal age! He is Lord over the rulers of this world. I totally agree!! Does that make us little gods..nope, not in the least

as I said, them that have ears, let them hear.

I agree! And those that have eyes let them see

health and weath gospel is silly to say the least.

If God wanted me rich, then he is doing a bad job !

"If God wanted me rich, then he is doing a bad job !"

No you are. Let God be true and every man a liar!

Originally posted by Andrew
"If God wanted me rich, then he is doing a bad job !"

No you are. Let God be true and every man a liar!

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I was joking dude...  surely you don't believe that garbage.

That rich young ruler was a sad boy, he had many posessions he would have to give away.

Christ had no place to lay his head. He didn't bring an eartly kindgom like the Jews expected. Health and wealth expects the same thing the Jews did, and that is nonsense.

Just because some snot nose preschooler hangs out with me and gives me a cold does not mean God is angry with me. That type of theology reeks of the ancient tribal worship of spirits.

 

I always wondered if christ wanted us all to be rich..why was he born in a manger? One that wasn't clean, among animals..and I mean it couldn't have smelt good either...

Didn't Jesus tell a rich man to give up everything and follow him?

And yes, Louis....we always forget that Joseph and Mary were homeless when Jesus was born.

Jesus also sent out the disciples to teach, and told them not to take an extra cloak. (I think there's a potential joke there about the airlines losing a person's luggage, LOL!)

Seriously, though, one of the REASONS why Christianity has spread so readily is that the message is for the lowest of the low, the poor, the homeless, the lonely. Jesus promised mansions in heaven, he didn't make mention of the housing here on earth.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

oh please, come out of the dark ages and spare me the hoola baloo "poor as a church mouse"/"I'm so holy coz I got holes in my shoes" mentality!

You guys talk as though Christ did not die, as though you have not been made king-priests, joint-heirs with the Most High!

why talk like hypocrites? if you believe so much in giving up everything, having no place to sleep, etc, why do you still live in nice homes, have a comfy bed, have your tea n biscuit in the afternoon, etc. I mean you guys should live like the homeless in the slumps. Walk the talk or see the light!

Note: Let's not become sarcastic in responding to each other but think twice before posting and be kind toward one another. Don't let the thread deteriorate into insults and belittlement.

Thank you.

Originally posted by VOW
Didn't Jesus tell a rich man to give up everything and follow him?

And yes, Louis....we always forget that Joseph and Mary were homeless when Jesus was born.

Jesus also sent out the disciples to teach, and told them not to take an extra cloak. (I think there's a potential joke there about the airlines losing a person's luggage, LOL!)

Seriously, though, one of the REASONS why Christianity has spread so readily is that the message is for the lowest of the low, the poor, the homeless, the lonely. Jesus promised mansions in heaven, he didn't make mention of the housing here on earth.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

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Excuse me, but where is it written that Joseph & Mary were homeless.  Jesus was born in a manger because there was no room in the inn. (Luke 2:7)  Not because they did not have any money.

Originally posted by Andrew
oh please, come out of the dark ages and spare me the hoola baloo "poor as a church mouse"/"I'm so holy coz I got holes in my shoes" mentality!

You guys talk as though Christ did not die, as though you have not been made king-priests, joint-heirs with the Most High!

why talk like hypocrites? if you believe so much in giving up everything, having no place to sleep, etc, why do you still live in nice homes, have a comfy bed, have your tea n biscuit in the afternoon, etc. I mean you guys should live like the homeless in the slumps. Walk the talk or see the light!

Click to expand...

I don't have the attitude you described, saying how holy I am because I have so little, God has given me a lot, and I am grateful for what I have. This is not contrary to my opinion on the health and weath gospel.

Yeah, we are son's of the Most High God, that is true. But when God was here on earth, what did he have so share with us? He didn't share posessions or money, she shared the words of God.

The is no hypocritical talk. I was describing who Jesus was, what he had, and what he talked about. I never claimed how that I supported giving up everything you own and living in the slumps, I merely pointed out the example of the rich young ruler, showing that wealth was neither a necessity, or a guarantee. Which speaks against the notion that God wants us to be rich.

There are some issues when I can see why a christian might think and believe things differently than myself. I can see why a person might think they can lose their salvation (though I don't believe it). But I see no reason why any christian would believe the health and wealth gospel, unless they are very vulnerable because of money issues in the past.

Maybe we should sell our homes, our posessions and live on the street. But how many Americans would stop to hear a bum preach? Probably not any. Part of reacing a culture is being a part of the culture. Being in the world but not of the world. I think God is fine with me having a house and a job and a car, living in the USA. I use American culture to reach America. The same way that a missionary is New Guinea uses traditional culture there to reach those people. This is not some sap story, but it is reality. We live in the US, this is how it is. We live as christians in this context. If it is a sin issue, then obviously we cannot stand for it. But owning a home is not a sin. I think I am babbling now, Later.

"Not because they did not have any money."

they were quite poor quaff, else they would have bought a house there instead of just using an inn room. Correct? They didn't have any servents either. They were poor by the standards of the day.

Quaffie,

Actually, Mary and Joseph were quite poor. The clue is that they offered pigeons to the priest (cant rem where in the Bible). In those days the rich offered bullocks, middle class lambs, poor --doves and poorer still flour (notice the decreasing size and how God is so flexible).

BUT the point is that after Jesus came along, they prospered -- think of all the gold and expensive gifts the wise men/king-makers (and there were more than 3!) gave to Jesus when he was abt 2 years old. And I mean, if Jesus were living with you, do you think you'll get poorer and sicker? So, the spiritual truth here is that people prosper once Jesus comes into their lives (unless of course they reject the gifts but we dont see Mary and Joseph saying "no thank you we want to remain holy"). we can also see that wherever the Gospel has gone/been planted throughout the world, there has been economic development, women are no longer oppressed etc -- compare this to communist/muslim/hindu nations.

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Dave,

quote:"God has given me a lot, and I am grateful for what I have."

that to me is plain prosperity. now wldnt God also want you to have health so that you can enjoy what he's blessed you with? eg what's the point of having 3 hot meals a day if you have stomach ulcers?

So why be against "health and wealth" Gospel? BTW there's no such thing as a health and wealth gospel (the faith mvt never calls it that), only one true Gospel of peace/salvation. But health and prosperity are part of the Gospel (that's plainly in the Bible). And to prosper does not just mean financially, but also in the area of your career, family life, relationships, ministry etc. The meaning is actually "excellence in all things".

Sorry guys, I was responding to the "homeless" statement.  I don't know any scripture that says they were homeless. 

They may have been poor but according to the scripture ref I gave, Jesus was born in a stable because there was no room in the inn. It does not say they had no money to pay for a room. They tried to get a room, but it was full because everyone else was there to pay their taxes too. 

Now I suppose they could have been considered homeless at that point because they were living in a stable.  But I do not believe it was because they had no money. 

They did not buy a house because they were only there to pay the tax. 

And, like Andrew pointed out, the Magi brought rich gifts, so Mary and Joseph were no longer poor.  God was not a dead-beat dad.