What constitutes forgiveness?

no way!

Our pastor just preached on this subject last week. "Forgiving as Christ forgave". Its an incredible standard. We forgive, but push the person away...disengage ourselves from them. Christ forgave, and drew us in. The forgiveness of Christ draws us INTO relationship, it doesn't push us away from it. I am now in the process of asking God to enable me to have that kind of forgiveness, for apart from Him, I am unable to forgive in such a way.

I don't think that the person has really forgiven other than externally, not internally. I think it's a way for some to avoid further conflict, and to not allow their resentment to grow any deeper. They say that "Time heals all wounds." The person who has claimed to forgive either in time forgets about it, or they do forgive the person. Sometimes I'm not sure if certain individuals are reconciliable because they are such polar opposites. Of course, Jesus said to forgive no matter what.

Good thread, Gerry.

I believe that to truly forgive as God forgives, then we need to remember their sins no more. Being the flawed humans that we are, I don't know if that is completely possible, but at least it is something to strive for. I think that if a person is making forgiveness conditional, they have not truly forgiven the offender. It also makes me wonder what type of judgement they are bringing upon themselves by only offering conditional forgiveness. It is a tough situation to call, because sometimes it can be so hard to forgive someone, especially when they have hurt you time and again, and you don't trust that they are truly repentant.

It's hard, you know, when you don't want to be the same sucker twice. It's hard to learn from it and forget it at the same time. The examples that happen in our lives make us remember why we think the way we do. I am still not sure how to be on guard and still forget.

I struggled with this for a long time. What if my offender has not said that they are sorry? What if they show no signs of repentence? Am I still expected to forgive. I believe the answer is yes.

I think of this scripture found in Matthew 18:22

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times .

There are no conditions put on it.

Originally posted by Redeemed1
Our pastor just preached on this subject last week. "Forgiving as Christ forgave". Its an incredible standard. We forgive, but push the person away...disengage ourselves from them. Christ forgave, and drew us in. The forgiveness of Christ draws us INTO relationship, it doesn't push us away from it. I am now in the process of asking God to enable me to have that kind of forgiveness, for apart from Him, I am unable to forgive in such a way.

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I wish that one of my friends could forgive like that. We had a really close friendship then I messed up and I don't think that she will ever truly forgive me. Its to where I remember what happened every time that I see her, but no matter what I do she will never let me in again.

I believe that if you will begin (if you aren't already) praying that God will teach your friend the forgiveness of Christ, and to begin to speak to her about the relationship with you, then He will do it. We are incapable of transforming our own hearts, or anyone else's...but God can.

When Jesus spoke of forgiveness, it is the "second birth" or the second chance at life, but this time with God.  Forgiveness is represented also in Jesus Resurrection, which showed death to sin, and a new life under and through God.  Forgiveness is a mutal responsibility, meaning a person admits that they are weak, ignorant, and sinful, furthermore requiring God in order to fulfill a good life.  By admitting one is weak, it further shows depedence for God, and an unselfish attitude.  You further trade your weaknesses for God's strengths.

Through Jesus, God understood what forgiveness means to people, and how they require it.  And through forgiveness, there is an open door to freedom, and far from bondage of sin, guilt, and pain.

Good topic!!
Robby

Originally posted by mld3three


I wish that one of my friends could forgive like that. We had a really close friendship then I messed up and I don't think that she will ever truly forgive me. Its to where I remember what happened every time that I see her, but no matter what I do she will never let me in again. 

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That's an easy one to answer, if you consider what forgiveness is.

Forgive is a combination word.  It comes from the two words: Forth and Give.

Consider this:  We sin...and sin...and sin... ad infinitum.

Why is this so?  Because God lets it happen.
Why does God let it happen?  Because God is forthgiving of our inclination to sin.  God accepts that we sin.  Why?  Because, someday, we'll learn about how we offend him, and we'll truly be remorseful.  Once we truly realize our offenses to him, we'll then, and only then, be willing of our own free will to stop sinning.  We'll realize just how loving God is and we'll hate to offend him anymore.

Exactly like your situation.  You messed up in your friendship.  Now your friend won't talk to you anymore.  How many of us have really heard God talk to us??  I'd say, so few it's tragic.  He doesn't interfere with our desire to sin.  He lets us exercise our own free will to do as we darn well please, knowing that some day we'll stop.  Just like your situation, would you have done what you did if you knew the real consequences?  Had your friend simply said to you, "I forgive you" you might have not taken the messup so seriously.  Now you know just how much you hurt your friend, and yourself.

God treats us the same way.  He forthgives our choice to sin, and waits until we really realize the pain we cause before he reveals himself to us.  Until that time, we have to make track record to not sin, just as you have to make track record with regard to your relationship with your friend.  When your friend sees that you truly are remorseful, then maybe you can patch it up.  Maybe not.  Maybe your friend will never be your friend again.  But, even so, you know better what to do in other friendships.  You'll now be more careful, won't you?

God will never abandon us, as we might abandon each other, as in your case.  But, he certainly is doing us a big favor by not interacting with us as long as we incline to do wrong, don't you think?

Hope this helps.

 

Patty

Good points Patty

Ohhhhhh! what a great question! I would hate to think of what it would be like if God said I forgive you but I'm never going to talk to you again. This world would be in alot of hurt.

If you forgive someone then you can't place conditions on that forgivness, placing conditions on what terms we'll forgive someone under only leads to hurting that other person. It also sets a very poor example of what being a Christian is all about.

Well, I agree with what every one has said, but I have a question. After you forgive someone, should you allow yourself to be put back in the situation where you can be hurt by this person again?

Let me give a couple of examples. I had a serious relationship where the fellow I was involved with cheated on me. Several times. Now, the relationship ended and through lots and lots and lots of prayer, I have been able to forgive him. But I feel I don't have to repair the relationship to the extent that would put me in the place of being hurt by him again.

Next, there is a woman that I go to church with who seems to love to say disparaging things to me all in the guise of humor. Let's just say that her brand of humor hurts. Now, I forgive her and really would do anything to help her if she was in need. But, I do not readily put myself somewhere where I know she will be. I don't open myself up to letting her hurt me time and time again.

So I guess my question is, am I just forgiving these two people conditionally?

Tough question Gerry. and sometimes It can be tough when we,ve been hurt so bad. but we must remeber that at one time we hurt God to. and even as christian we still do, and he still forgives us time after time.and the minute we ask Christ to saved us, how long did It take for him to forgive.at that instance. he did not have to think it over for a while and then decide.and then afterwards he wanted to be friends and start a personal relationship with us. but only God can give us that kind of ability.

Thanks for your insight Gerry!