Catholosism (I think that's how you spell it!)

KC Catholic

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Originally posted by jayemcintyre
I knwo for a fact that even if it is not the solely practiced method of prayer that Romans Catholics pray to Mary, mother of God however the Lord's prayer which is in MAtthew, I'm sorry but I forget where, it tells us to pray to God.

"Worship no-one but me" Exodus 20:3 So again, why do Catholics pray to Mary, surely that is almost worshipping her

Catholics do not worship Mary - plain and simple. We honor her. She is the mother of Christ and deserves honor and respect. That honor and respect does NOT place her above Christ in any way since Mary always points us to her son, Jesus.

I love Mary like I love my own mother, besides, Jesus gave Mary to all of us on the cross "Brother, behold your mother, Mother behold your son." I am a brother of Christ by adoption through his redemption of my sinful self, true? If so, then Mary becomes my adopted mother by default.

And the 10 Commandments state that I must "Honor thy mother and father" thus to follow God's commandment I love and honor Mary.

Does that help?

When we pray to Mary, its the same as if I asked you to pray for me. I have never met you, never laid eyes on you, yet because we are both members of the mystical body of Christ, I know I can ask you to pray to Christ for whatever my needs are. Can you answer my prayers - no. All you can do is pray along side me and have hope that Christ will hear and answer me.

Same with Mary and those who have died before us who live in the glory of God's kingdom. They cannot do anything for us but pray right along side of us to Jesus - who is our ONE mediator between God and man. We have more people on our side than we really realize.

Does that help?



Originally posted by jayemcintyre
And in response to my having nothing aginst the Roman Catholic church defeating the point in this thread, if youread the first post you will realise that the point was about bringing the church of Christ together, so it would defeat the point of the thread if I was completely against Catholosism

Actually, I believe you stated the following:

"I would just like to say that I am not against the Roman Catholic church, I just think some of there teaching is wrong and therefore I would rather not be a member of it."

But in order to have interaction between the different denoms, including Catholics, you are going to have to get better aquainted with the beliefs so that you don't look foolish and insult the people you are trying to unite with.
 
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KC Catholic

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Originally posted by Patmosman_sga
An excellent introduction to Catholic teaching on Mary is Hail, Holy Queen by Scott Hahn (Doubleday). This book dispelled a lot of misconceptions for me.

Excellent book...I am still working my way through it!

Anything by Scott Hahn is bound to be good and insightful reading.
 
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Patmosman_sga

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Originally posted by KC Catholic


Excellent book...I am still working my way through it!

Anything by Scott Hahn is bound to be good and insightful reading.

Also, The Lamb's Supper (the most practical work on eschatology available today, IMHO) and his latest, First Comes Love (the Trinity and its relation to the family).
 
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Brian45

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Romans 10
8But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"[1] (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ
<SUP>(3)</SUP> <SUP>13</SUP> When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
<SUP>14</SUP>So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
<SUP>15</SUP>He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
<SUP>16</SUP>Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
<SUP>17</SUP>Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.<SUP> 18</SUP>And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.<SUP> 19</SUP>And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed<SUP>[4]</SUP> in heaven."
<SUP>20</SUP>Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ

&nbsp;

The rock on which peter stood , was his confession that jesus is the christ .

Another man stood upon this same rock , and this is what he has to say :

&nbsp;

<SUP>39</SUP>Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ,<SUP>[10]</SUP> save Yourself and us."
<SUP>40</SUP>But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?<SUP> 41</SUP>And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong."<SUP> 42</SUP>Then he said to Jesus, "Lord,<SUP>[11]</SUP> remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
<SUP>43</SUP>And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."&nbsp;

&nbsp;

Yes , he was promised paradise , why ?&nbsp; Because he confessed with his mouth that jesus was the christ , just as peter did before him .

Both men stood upon the same rock ,&nbsp; and jesus said :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Upon this rock I will build my church .

And I would like to add that christians of all denominations , including Catholics , jehovahs wittnesess ,&nbsp;etc , etc ,&nbsp; all stand upon this very same rock&nbsp; .

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;
 
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jayebrownlee

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It really upsets me that we are arguing about this, I am sorry that I started this thread as I truly believe that as long as we are all working to glorify the same living god, then that is all that matters. I love my Lord and saviour and worship/pray/work for Him in my own way, everyone here will do the same.

I will never agree with most of the practices that are practiced within the Roman Catholic church, but then I imagine that you think the way that I do some things is wrong, or at least not the best way.

Please let us forget arguing about the best way to do all these things, I am ashamed of some of the things I have written here, and just concentrate on living the best Christian life possible and letting everyone everywhere know what amazing things God can offer them, after all we are all working towards the same goal of eternal life with God.

I still intend to try and find out about Catholocism, as like I have said many times I hate the idea of being ignorant about the way other people practice their faith. Sorry to anyone I have upset or offended, it was certainly not my intention.

North East Scotland Youth For Christ still has very little in the way of links woth any roman Catholic churches and I think that slowly over the years to come this may change, after all, our mission statement is "Taking Good News relevently to every young person in Britian"
 
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Wolseley

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1. Where did the concept of nuns and monks come from?
It's an extension of the ancient Hebrew prophets in the Old Testament who went off and lived in the wilderness, devoting themselves entirely to God. Christian monks got started in the 2nd century in the deserts of Syria and Egypt; Western monasticism (the one you're probably the most familiar with) got stared with St. Benedict in Italy in the 5th century, and Eastern monasticism (nowadays usually the Orthodox variety) with Sts. Cyril and Methodius in the 9th century.
2. Where does it say the wine and bread actually ARE Christ?
Matthew 26:26ff

Mark 14:22ff

Luke 22:17ff

John 6:35ff

1 Corinthians 11:23ff.
this do in **remembrance** of me.
How does this nullify the Real Presence? If it's merely symbolic, why didn't Jesus call the people who left Him in John 6 back, and say, "Wait a minute, fellas! I'm only kidding! I'm not talking about My real, actual body here!"??? 1 Cor 11 clearly states that anyone who receives Holy Communion unworthily eats and drinks damnation to himself. Are you suggesting that Paul was teaching that people could be damned for unworthily receiving a symbol?
3. How come most leaders (not sure what ones, include bishops?) are not allowed to marry?
All clergy in the Latin Rite with the exception of deacons are enjoined to be celibate. Someone setting themselves aside for God alone is not new in Christian practice; it has its roots in Jesus' teachings in Matthew 19:12 and Pauls' in 1 Corinthians 7:32ff. It became a mandatory practice in the Latin Rite during the Middle Ages, to prevent the practice of primogeniture in the Church. (Primogeniture is when the oldest son inherits his father's business, and in the case of a priest, this meant the parish church.) The Church recognized that simply because somebody was the son of a priest, that didn't automatically mean that the son was suitable to be a priest himself, so this discipline was imposed to prevent clergy from producing children. There was also the fact that the lands, buildings, moneys, etc. that belonged to the Church needed to stay with the Church, because they belonged to the entire people of God as a whole, and not be inherited by the children of clergy---so celibacy was also a way of maintaining stability and unity within the structure of the Medieval Church.

The passage in 1 Timothy 4:1-3 must be taken in conjunction with its historical context; Paul was speaking in reference to the Gnostics, not the Catholics.
4. How can you claim biblical teachings from the pope are infallible?
You don't think biblical teachings are infallible?

In the case of infallibility, the Pope has to adhere to an extremely narrow set of conditions before he can make an infallible statement. He has to be speaking in the capacity of head of the entire Church; he has to be defining or explaining an existing doctrine (or in other words, he can't make this stuff up as he goes along or "add to" the Bible); the content of his statement must be pertaining to Faith or morals; and whatever he says cannot contradict Scripture, Sacred Tradition, a previous infallible statement, or any other previously revealed truth.
5. Where does it say people in heaven can hear everyone? That's what Mary would have to pull off.
Says who?

We believe that Mary and others in heaven pray for us. But that doesn't mean that she has to be able to hear every single request, from every single person. Look at it this way: suppose you offer to pray for every single person in the United States of America, and ask people to write their prayer requests to you. In short order, you get sixteen semis parked in your yard, loaded with sacks of mail; there's probably upwards of 600,000 letters in there. Are you going to open every single letter, pray over the request, and move on to the next one?

Probably not. What you'll do is pray over the whole batch at one shot, or at the very least, each one of the sixteen semi-loads separately, asking God, Who already knows what's in those requests, to attend to them in His compassion and mercy.

Bingo. You just added your prayers to 600,000 requests all at one shot, and all at the same time.

And you're not even a canonized Catholic saint. ;)

It's much the same with Mary. She probably gets up every morning and prays over the latest incoming requests that have come in overnight at one time. ;) In addition to this is the fact that she is in eternity, where space and time mean nothing; so she is not bound by the same physical constraints that we are here on earth.
6. What happens about not making images etc yet I see even the pope kissing them?
A Catholic image is not an idol. We do not worship images; we worship Christ, Whom images of Christ represent, and we can worship Christ whether we have the image of Him or not. In the case of images of saints, we pay respect to saints, we do not worship them; and paying respect to the image of a saint is actually paying respect to the saint whom the image represents. The image is merely a tool, something set aside for the purpose of bringing glory to God, much like a church building or a Christian hospital, or a painting of Christ.
7. Talking about kissing how about when the pope kissed the Islam bible? Along with the church and not ministrying to Jews etc?
What should he have done, spit on it? He's not going to win any Muslims over to Christianity by being a disrespectful jerk, is he? But by showing politeness and respect to the Muslims and Jews, he may be getting them to think, "Hey, this guy isn't all that bad....maybe there's something to this religion that he's talking about after all, if it makes him like that. Maybe I should check this out."

Does this help? :)
 
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It really upsets me that we are arguing about this, I am sorry that I started this thread as I truly believe that as long as we are all working to glorify the same living god, then that is all that matters. I love my Lord and saviour and worship/pray/work for Him in my own way, everyone here will do the same.

Dont feel bad, this isnt really an argument, just a discussion. We are used to being misunderstood, so when we see someone like yourself, who truly wants to understand, we jump at the chances to enlighten you. :)

Its all good! :D
 
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jayebrownlee

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Thank you, it's just that for a while it felt like everyone hated me for being so ignorant. Thank you for jumping.

BTW, our charity is currently on mission and I thought evryone would love to know that two young people became Christians after talking to me and some others in my team. They are so excited about Christ and despite being only 11 and 12 and coming from non-Christian families they went home telling their mums and brothers and sisters about the decision they had made amd what it meant to them!!!
 
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Brian45

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Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um


"jump" is the verb that comes to mind. ;)

&nbsp;

Jump is not the word I would use .

More like&nbsp; :&nbsp; smother&nbsp; , gang up on&nbsp; ,&nbsp; outnumber ,&nbsp; overpower , standover and&nbsp;&nbsp;bully are only but a few of the words I would use to describe their tactics when defending catholic self rightiousness
 
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yeah! darn it, i KNOW that in at LEAST one of the Letters, (i am going to try to recal... i THINK it was in Romans), he pleads to them to be "united", in all of their beliefs and ethics. That's a pretty tough goal today, but anyone working for that has my prayers w/ them.

Just remember which beliefs get you to heaven, and which don't.

"It's not how you behave, it's how you believe..."
**PARAPHRASED** from "WHo I am In Christ", by Niel T. Anderson.
 
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suzie

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Jay-- I can understand and relate to your concern with Catholics and their differences from other christian denominations. There will be differences as you can see from the various posts, catholics believe what they believe....just as any denomination does. Is it impossible to work in unity? It is not but-- it is difficult, for as you can see, there is division in their doctrinal beliefs that will become issue at some point.....but if God is leading you to this then He will help work this out. My husband and I were raised catholic and continue to have friends within the catholic church, and were for many years part of a sharing group consisting of mostly catholics even after leaving the CC. It was not always easy, but not impossible. Praise God for those youth that God used you to bring to Christ!!! God is so good and you are such a blessing in your obedience to Him! Keep fighting the good fight!
 
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