Comparing religion to the martial arts. Could this help in realizing Truth?

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raffster

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One of the worst assumptions that a martial artist practitioner can make is to make himself believe that his art is the ultimate martial arts style, and that no other style can defeat it. We have seen that anybody who makes this assumption and steps on the fighting arena gets beaten up severely.

The greatest martial arts practitioners of today have learned a valuable lesson: That to become a great fighter one must not only be a master of his style but also to be well rounded in the other arts that possess techniques not found in his own. For example, an American boxer might consider learning to grapple and take down techniques; while a Jiu-Jitsu expert might want to learn some punching and kicking techniques. In the world's greatest fighting arena, the UFC, those who are experienced in all the phases of fighting (stand up, take down and ground fighting) almost always emerge victorious.

As a martial artist and a seeker of Truth I have often likened the martial arts to my creed and belief system. This explains why I have never been content with sticking to just one religion.

Just like the martial arts arena, I consider life itself as the arena, where we step in it and face life's greatest challenge: to master ourselves in the pursuit of Truth.

It is therefore with these insights that I am hoping to gain some additional insights from the forum members of this community. We obviously have our "preferred" religion of choice -- Christianity, for me -- but isn't it possible that we could enrich our belief system by not limiting ourselves to it? Wouldn't it be better to have an understanding of what other belief systems have to offer so that instead of condemning them we can actually have an appreciation of them?

All right, with that said, does anybody want to try my kung fu? :D
 

UBERROGO

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I see what your saying, and while there are traces of The Truth in most religions, I don't know if there is saveing truth in them. I do have faith that there is saving truth in my religion, Christianity. So I will stick with that.

Tao has some good advice from what I have read. Other than that I am not an adherant. Haven't really gotten into anyother religion/philosophy this way.
 
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127Rockledge

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I think your ideas are almost Buddhist regarding the great search for truth. Which I don't believe is wrong or unGodly in any way, so long as you regard Christ the son of God, and Jehova as the one true God. There is absolutely nothing wrong in learning about, say, early Egyptian influence on the story of Christ, or the correlative writings of Gotoma Buddha and the apostle Paul.

And I've fought Kung Fu before, seems like unless the practicioner was Asian taught, they are weak and telegraph oddly. As well as having horrible wrestling/takedown defense.

And UFC still has rules and weight classes, therefore it cannot be a true test of fighting skill.
 
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KTskater

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I used to think of things like that (as I'm a martial artist myself) when I was younger. But I've come to realize that the defense of my body and the defense of my soul are two completely different things. My body has limits, my soul does not, and my soul is far more precious than any limb or organ. My body will return to the earth, my soul is etnernal. That's why I believe in only one saving faith. Many other religions have amazing wisdom, but I don't see any that promise the salvation of my soul no matter what.
Perhaps that's why I'm not a very good martial artist (Okanawin Shuri Ryu for life!...lol).
 
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UBERROGO

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I think your ideas are almost Buddhist regarding the great search for truth. Which I don't believe is wrong or unGodly in any way, so long as you regard Christ the son of God, and Jehova as the one true God. There is absolutely nothing wrong in learning about, say, early Egyptian influence on the story of Christ, or the correlative writings of Gotoma Buddha and the apostle Paul.

And I've fought Kung Fu before, seems like unless the practicioner was Asian taught, they are weak and telegraph oddly. As well as having horrible wrestling/takedown defense.

And UFC still has rules and weight classes, therefore it cannot be a true test of fighting skill.

Telegraph? like writing?
 
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127Rockledge

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Telegraphing whilst fighting means to give away your motion by body language before a strike/takedown/move is made.

I.E. A boxer will tighten his face and move his shoulders to throw a strong hand punch. Or the body must spin to perform a roundhouse kick.

I find alot of arts of asian origin to be beautiful to look at, but weak for realisitc self-defense.
 
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drpepper101

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Martial arts are mostly art forms, and are useless in practical terms. The only work when both fighters agree to obey "the rules." The world's militaries reject the use of martial arts and have developed practical hand to hand combat training. I suggest a similar approach, Christ is the only way to salvation and the only practical method of spiritual combat is the Christian faith. Whatever trappings of truth another religion may hold it remains as useless as Asian martial arts. I suggest asking a Japanese officer how useful his samuri sword was during a WW2 bonzi charge but you cannot because they're dead. A sword just wasn't much of a match for a good old fashion M-1 with a Marine at the trigger. Stick to the practical, you'll live longer and we're talking about eternal life or death here.
 
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Gusoceros

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I find it frustrating when people talk about Asian Martial Arts being useless- this just isnt the case. People will tend to move towards an either/or approach to martial arts/ self defense- I would suggest that you need to not take this approach. It is my opinion, that you will need training in striking, grappling, take downs, disarms, ground fighting, and multiple attackers. Asian martial arts address striking and multiple attackers well. Other martial arts have strengths in the other areas. Plan your program according to where you believe you need strengths- but dont toss out the baby with the bath water.

G
 
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127Rockledge

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Gus - I say what I say because I have trained in such arts (trad. karate, TKD) and in more modern fighting "systems" (Krav Maga, Systema, LE DT, FORCE) and have utilized such in the real world - it's my job.

Because of this real world experience, and countless hours on the mats honing skills, and amateur fights, I can honestly say that at this point in time, I do not believe any asian art to be worth my time, or anybody's time if they are looking for self-defense.

For me, the asian arts are a thing of beauty, but are nothing more than a violent dance.

I will take most any 1 year mma fighter (BJJ, Muay Thai - systems, not arts) in a ring with almost any practitioner of an asian art. And chance is, they will win.

On the street, where there are no rules, and true Krav Maga can be utilized (most techniques are not allowed in MMA), it is rarely beaten, and if so, usually the result of loss is death or severe injury.
 
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BigNorsk

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One of the worst assumptions that a martial artist practitioner can make is to make himself believe that his art is the ultimate martial arts style, and that no other style can defeat it. We have seen that anybody who makes this assumption and steps on the fighting arena gets beaten up severely.

The greatest martial arts practitioners of today have learned a valuable lesson: That to become a great fighter one must not only be a master of his style but also to be well rounded in the other arts that possess techniques not found in his own. For example, an American boxer might consider learning to grapple and take down techniques; while a Jiu-Jitsu expert might want to learn some punching and kicking techniques. In the world's greatest fighting arena, the UFC, those who are experienced in all the phases of fighting (stand up, take down and ground fighting) almost always emerge victorious.

As a martial artist and a seeker of Truth I have often likened the martial arts to my creed and belief system. This explains why I have never been content with sticking to just one religion.

Just like the martial arts arena, I consider life itself as the arena, where we step in it and face life's greatest challenge: to master ourselves in the pursuit of Truth.

It is therefore with these insights that I am hoping to gain some additional insights from the forum members of this community. We obviously have our "preferred" religion of choice -- Christianity, for me -- but isn't it possible that we could enrich our belief system by not limiting ourselves to it? Wouldn't it be better to have an understanding of what other belief systems have to offer so that instead of condemning them we can actually have an appreciation of them?

All right, with that said, does anybody want to try my kung fu? :D

Many people make the mistake of thinking all religions are the same or people can be good buddists, or whatever and get saved.

Thing is, many religions and philosophies provide morality and ways for people to get along with each other. That basically comes from the Law, which is not just revealed in scripture but is also revealed in general revelation through God's creation. As moral systems, there are many that could be said to be pretty good. Problem is, who is really good? No one but God. Salvation does not come through the Law, it comes through the Gospel. Only Christianity provide the revelation of the Gospel. People are only saved through the work of Jesus through our faith that the gospel is true.

To say there is things to gain in other religions is really to make the mistake the Galatians were making when Paul called them foolish. Do we expect to finish or perfect the Gospel by turning to the Law? We cannot, but that is basically what you are claiming to do if you turn to other religions for the truth. It's not the Law as the Judaizers were promoting, but it's still Law, and Law doesn't complete nor perfect nor add to the Gospel.

So other religions really have nothing to give the Christian. He has the best examples of the Law, and he has the Gospel.

Marv
 
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Gusoceros

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Gus - I say what I say because I have trained in such arts (trad. karate, TKD) and in more modern fighting "systems" (Krav Maga, Systema, LE DT, FORCE) and have utilized such in the real world - it's my job.

Because of this real world experience, and countless hours on the mats honing skills, and amateur fights, I can honestly say that at this point in time, I do not believe any asian art to be worth my time, or anybody's time if they are looking for self-defense.

For me, the asian arts are a thing of beauty, but are nothing more than a violent dance.

I will take most any 1 year mma fighter (BJJ, Muay Thai - systems, not arts) in a ring with almost any practitioner of an asian art. And chance is, they will win.

On the street, where there are no rules, and true Krav Maga can be utilized (most techniques are not allowed in MMA), it is rarely beaten, and if so, usually the result of loss is death or severe injury.

I can appreciate your experience, however, at the same time, my point still stands, that there are instances where you will need striking capabilities- and not to ignore the strengths of other fighting systems in an either/or mindset. I also can appreciate Krav Maga, and the grappling/ground fighting arts. Ring fighting is not representative of street fighting, where BJJ will leave you open to "the buddy". AMA have their strengths.

Tell me, what strength would you like to have if your hands were tied behind your back?

G
 
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127Rockledge

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I can appreciate your experience, however, at the same time, my point still stands, that there are instances where you will need striking capabilities-

Which is where Muay Thai and Krav Maga or Systema comes in.

Ring fighting is not representative of street fighting,

Absolutely correct. However, it is many MANY times more realistic than point style arts. NHB that is.

where BJJ will leave you open to "the buddy". AMA have their strengths.

Which is why a rounded system rather than simply an art is needed. I also disagree that 99% of fights end up on the ground, but that the majority do.

Tell me, what strength would you like to have if your hands were tied behind your back?

G

The way I train, I would have been dead before that ever happened. However as noted before, kicks are very much part of Muay Thai and Krav Maga, as well as Systema.

Remember, in the real world, that Jackie Chan stuff doesn't work. One unguarded punch to the temple coming from a trained fighter should atleast flash KO you.
 
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damo73

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I would kind of agree with you when it comes to fighting styles, still the human body can only move in certain ways, and once you know that path, the way they travel it does not matter, i have been doing wingchun for five years ,studied Karate as a boy, Brazilian jui-jitsu and kravmaga the last 2 .Without a doubt krav is the most realistic when a fight breaks out, i promise you i could stop you from taking me to the ground, and if ground work is all you have how are you going to deal with me then? I have worked the door at a few pubs and i would say it depends just as much on the person as the style.I have noticed all styles seem to blur at higher levels anyhow.

When it comes to faith i believe there is only one path and that is Christ, because there is an absolute truth, not many truths when it comes to God.

Jesus said the only way to the father was through him, was he lying? If you truely believe in him you would have to say no.
 
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127Rockledge

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Damo, I agree, the most studied and effective fighters in NHB competitions seem to all fight similarly now. There are a few standouts, but most everybody looks like an American boxer that learned he can use leg kicks mixed with a BJJ style grappler. You must be well rounded nowadays.

15 years ago nobody knew about BJJ, and the Gracie's rocked the world making a ground game necesary, but now that the cat's out of the bag and takedown defense is commonly taught, striking is back to being paramount.

I'm itching for some good ol' fashion kung fu to get into the cage. If you or anybody else remembers, there was a guy not too long ago that got into pancrase or IFL using Jeet Kune Do, he even wore a yellow jumpsuit every once in a while. He got obliterated every time.

And agreed on the path to God as well, though many people see through just as many different shades of Christ.
 
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