New Jersey lawmakers reject discrimination

Now Churches that do not want to marry Gays & Lesbians don't have to marry Gays and Lesbians while Churches that want to marry Gas and Lesbians can do so.

It's a victory for religious liberty!

TracerBullet said:

biblically justifying prejudice doesn’t magically make that prejudice good or moral or just.
a generation ago racists used this same argument to justify a ban on interracial marriage.
specifically it was claimed that it was wrong for a black and a white to marry because God said so. It didn’t hold up in court. And with good reason

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God said so? I'd like to be pointed to the scripture that says that.

The 14th amendment to the constitution guarantees that ALL people have equal protection under the law and equal rights and responsibilities…all…not just people you personally like…all. you are free to have your personal prejudices but those prejudices whether they are based on skin color or religion or sexual oriention but the government does not and cannot be prejudiced towards any minority.



No. the problem is that discrimination against gays and lesbians is no different from racism. They are both rooted in hate and both go against the teachings of Jesus.

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I have no prejudice against homosexuals; I believe that they should have the same rights--except the rights to marriage--as straight people. I am opposed to gay marriage, because it is wrong, not because of any prejudice in me.

Racist also routinely imply a connection between blacks and crime or sickness…just as you are doing here with homosexuals.


Having dark skin does not make one comparable to a criminal or someone mentally disturbed…and neither does being gay or lesbian make one comparable to a criminal or someone mentally disturbed.

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I have not linked homosexuals to sickness. My post about the insane was to make an analogy--allowing gays to marry, even though it is wrong, because heterosexuals are allowed to marry is the same as allowing the insane to walk free, which is also wrong, just because sane individuals are allowed to walk free. In no way was I trying to say that homosexuals are insane, and heterosexuals are sane; I sincerely apologize if anyone somehow got this impression.

I have no prejudice against homosexuals; I believe that they should have the same rights--except the rights to marriage--as straight people. I am opposed to gay marriage, because it is wrong, not because of any prejudice in me.

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What? :o Then you are prejudiced against Homosexuals. See that word "except" in your post?

Noone is asking you to marry someone of the same sex. Those who wish to do so want equality, not discrimination based on sexuality. Why does it bother you what 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes?

We have equal marriage here, nothing has changed, no was has been harmed, life still goes on, society is relatively decent.

CCGirl said:

Yes, there is alot of similarities....discrimination is discrimination. Especially the same bible verses being trotted out for both arguments against equality.

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I still say you can't compare the two. Slavery was a blatant human rights abuse. Denying a gay couple to marry is not a civil rights abuse.

ILoveIsrael said:

I know, I mean we all know we should take away the rights of others because we dont like them! (NOT). Sorry, but this was also an issue with other groups of people, like African Americans, once they got their rights, some ignorant people said they should not have rights, well what do you know, African Americans have rights still. I hope its the same for the GBLT community, and I also wish rights to the next group of people others wish to oppress...

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Yes! Lets not stop til we have rights for theives, minors, etc.
Everyone has rights, does everyone deserve a right to marry?
I know I feel like I am talking to a wall here and I do not exect any non christian to understand.
Being black is not a sin or unnatural. They wanted rights as human beings, which they certainly deserved and got. Gays have rights as human beings.
I know. I want everyone to have the right to be president! its unfair some of us don't get to be.

HowardDean said:

Yes! Lets not stop til we have rights for theives, minors, etc.

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Theives may forfiet some of their rights with a choice they make unlike are homosexual and do not choose their sexuality.
It is reasonable that minors restricted from certian rights, such as the righ to vote. This is because we can all understand that entering into these requires a mind that is developed enough.

Everyone has rights, does everyone deserve a right to marry?

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Like most things it should be extended as far as reason allows. There is no reason to restrict homosexuals from marrying, while minors and animals should not because they can not consent.

Being black is not a sin or unnatural.

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You must have an odd definition of unnatural if homosexuality is unnatural. It also seems like an weird way to decide what is good or bad. Many people would consider unnatural things such as computers and eyeglasses good, while they would consider natural things such as the Ebola and AIDS viruses bad.

They wanted rights as human beings, which they certainly deserved and got. Gays have rights as human beings.
I know.

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Yes, gays are given many of the same rights as heterosexuals, yet that does not mean they are being denied some rights. I do agree that it is very unreasonable to compare slavyer to the current situation of homosexuals. A much better comparision is with interracial marriage as the situations are extremely similar.

I have not seen any reasons yet from you. Why exactly do you think that homosexuals should be denied marriage?

Marriage, by definition, is a union between a man and a woman.

Natural. Would someone trying to eat by putting food in their ears natural?

HowardDean said:

Marriage, by definition, is a union between a man and a woman.

Natural. Would someone trying to eat by putting food in their ears natural?

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By definition it would seem that something found to be occuring in nature is natural. This would then make homosexuality natrual. Though like I said before, if something is natural or not is a horrible way to see if something is good. If you're trying to say that our bodies are not built for same-sex interaction. Then I would wonder why the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is placed so that is can be stimulated without penetration and why the prostate can be stimulated quite well through anal penetration.

Definitions change all the time and there is not completely standard definition. Some places already define marraige with no regard to sex of the individuals. In the US marriage has been redefined as recently as the 1960s when it was changed to include interracial couples.

tqpix said:

I never called homosexuals/bisexuals, etc. mentally challenged. That was an analogy.

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Can you address the other part of my post, the part that asks why your religious discrimination belongs in US law?

HowardDean said:

Marriage, by definition, is a union between a man and a woman.

Natural. Would someone trying to eat by putting food in their ears natural?

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The definition of natural is quite long, but it boils down to....
-existing in or formed by nature;
-based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature

And of these, homosexuality is natural because it *gasp* occurs in nature.

If people COULD eat food through their ears, you bet it would be natural. Since we can't, it's not. It's possible for gay people to marry, so therefore it's natural. Just because humans constitute some arbitrary rule deciding who can and cannot get married doesn't mean it's not natural.

Am I the only Christian here who supports gay marriage?

No, ILoveIsrael, you're not alone. There are plenty of Christians around who are standing up against unjust discrimination.

tqpix said:

The problem with you is that you believe gays/lesbians should be allowed to marry like heterosexuals. This is like believing that people who are mentally disturbed and poses a threat to society should be allowed to walk free like normal sane people instead of being locked up in a mental institution. Just because sane people are free to go outside and mingle with society does not mean that insane individuals should be given the same right; in this case, denying insane indivuals the equal right to be free is a good thing.

It seems like to a lot of people, every act of discrimination is wrong; this is not necessarily so.

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Except your analogy is completely flawed; while letting potentially mentally unstable people free poses a threat to the safety of others, there is no such concerns with gay marriage. It will affect only those who choose to get one. So, if it doesn't harm anyone, why deny equality?

HowardDean said:

Natural. Would someone trying to eat by putting food in their ears natural?

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While a stellar argument against the evils of polyester, synthetic rubber, electronics, the Internet, and eyeglasses, your argument is incorrect as homosexuality occurs in nature; and even if it didn't, there's plenty of things that humans do in an average day that I'm sure could be considered unnatural.

ILoveIsrael said:

Am I the only Christian here who supports gay marriage?

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Reply to you:
You say you are a Christian in your post. While that is an interesting subject you raised, and I'd love to reply, Christian Forums rules, however, forbid discussion of this subject you raised. End of discussion.

New Discussion:
I can offer general help to others wondering about how one becomes a Christian (in conformity with forum rules): Just being a member of a church does not make one truly born-again.

To be a Christian one must be born-again. That requires more than saying a creed or being baptized as an infant. In fact those things are not the same thing at all. All men and women need to repent, confess that they deserve hell, that they are powerless to do enough good to outweigh their bad deeds, and the only way they can get to Heaven is by a sinlessly-perfect Someone Else taking the punishment they deserve. Only God is capable of doing that, and He did! Forgiveness is free for the asking to the one who truly repents and believes.

fanatiquefou said:

No, ILoveIsrael, you're not alone. There are plenty of Christians around who are standing up against unjust discrimination.

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It is not unjust discrimination.

PeaceLover02 said:

It is not unjust discrimination.

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Tell us how it is just. Make sure you frame it in a way acceptable to the US constitution.

Dracon427 said:

Tell us how it is just. Make sure you frame it in a way acceptable to the US constitution.

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I'm not even sure it is discrimination to be honest.

PeaceLover02 said:

I'm not even sure it is discrimination to be honest.

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You can try making an argument for it being just discrimination, which you seem to be trying to avoid.

How could it not be discrimination to say that people cannnot marry because they are homosexual. I would consider that discrimination just as people are not allowed to marry animals, though that is obviously just discrimination.