Confusion about biblical "judging"

Nadiine · Dec 16, 2006

BuzWeaver said:
Also keep in mind its one thing if you are judging someone based on their actions versus judging them for their humanity. We can judge people based on their actions as we see this in law daily, but to judge someone because of an innate human quality is for God to decide. We can site examples of the Bible as to what God judges, but we ourselves can not judge people based on their humanity.

Ok, does what you're saying pertain to the situation of Jesus protecting the woman caught in adultery?

According to Law (which was still in full effect, Jesus was obeying the Law), adultery was punishable by death. Yet He had her life spared.

There are different positions on why Jesus spared her - some are, we cannot impose physical judgment any longer on moral issues/sins...

others are, they were setting the woman up to be caught in the adultery and Jesus would't let them take her life for their malice.

Others teach that the male wasn't being properly punished by death, so He pardoned her.

?

ydouxist · Dec 16, 2006

Make righteous judgements. Reactions tend to not be righteous judgements.
Try drawing in the sand before you judge.

Listen for the Holy Spirit. :holy:

Followers4christ · Dec 16, 2006

Alot of Christians use Matthew 7:1 to say that Christians should not judge but they never read the whole thing.

Matthew 7:1-5""Do not judge, or you too will be judged.For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

All this scripture is saying if you judge someone and you are doing the same sin as the person you are judging,then you will also be judged in the same manner.God hates hypocrites and if you judge someone yet you are a hypocrites you will also be judged.If you judge someone make sure you are not guilty of the same sin.We as Christians are Judges,But we must Judge with Righteous Judgment (John 7:24).God Bless

1 Corinthians 6:2 "Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?".

BGMCFAR · Dec 16, 2006

I recall back in school we were discussing this very thing and our teacher told us something I've have never forgotten " remember when you are pointing your finger at someone else there is always three pointing back at you and on a personal notes Nadine never every be shamed Because Jesus LOVES YOU no matter what He shed his blood for you Just think if with Jesus loving all of us then so does our Heavenly Father and all of host of heaven what joy to have all that love

seekthetruth909 · Dec 17, 2006

Nadiine said:
I was on another thread where I was attacked for 'judging'.
I wish we could use the Bible to come to an agreement on what Proper biblical judgment by a Christian is becuz
it's getting to the point where if you point something out as a sin, you're automatically judging & condemning others.

& What's the difference between Judging & Condemning?

Here's 2 verses to start with:

John 7:24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

1 Cor. 5:1-13 (12) For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

There are three ways that we can judge someone.
1.We make a correct evaluation and judge in humility from an attitude of love. The same way we would gently correct our childs wrong behavior. We love the person and wish to correct their behavior or attitude. We feel compassion and desire for them to see the truth.

3. We make an incorrect evaluation. We are wrong regardless of our attitude. We jump to conclusions.

2. We make a correct evaluation but judge with pride and a negative attitude. We are not judging out of love. Our motives are not pure. We are judging for other reasons. We wish to prove we are right, we wish to feel superior, we want to make the person look bad etc.

The first way of judging is the correct biblical way to judge. The second is wrong although our intentions may be good if we have the right attitude and do so with humility and love. The third way is what the bible speaks of when Jesus says, Judge not, that you be not judged. When we judge in this manner we are disobeying God. Jesus is also telling us to get our own act together before we judge others but even if we do we must still judge with the right attitude.

Unfortunately most of us use the #2 and #3 method of judging. In many Christian debates on this forum you rarely see people attempt to correct each other in a kind, patient, Christian manner with an attitude of love.

God Bless

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)

seekthetruth909 · Dec 17, 2006

Nadiine said:
Ok, does what you're saying pertain to the situation of Jesus protecting the woman caught in adultery?

Nadiine said:
According to Law (which was still in full effect, Jesus was obeying the Law), adultery was punishable by death. Yet He had her life spared.

There are different positions on why Jesus spared her - some are, we cannot impose physical judgment any longer on moral issues/sins...

others are, they were setting the woman up to be caught in the adultery and Jesus would't let them take her life for their malice.

Others teach that the male wasn't being properly punished by death, so He pardoned her.

?

I believe all 3 are wrong. We can still judge moral issues using the New Testament as our guide. The second and third conclusions are a great leap in assumptions. How can we read between the lines and speculate on the motives and actions of biblical figures with not a single scripture for support.

Although they were still under law, Jesus was showing a shadow of things to come, the redemption of our sins through his blood and the beginning of a new, better, Covenant. This new Covenant is filled with love and compassion for all sinners. Jesus was also showing the imperfection of mankind. No one except Jesus was perfect and without sin, so although they could judge what constitutes sin, they had no right to extract any penalty for sin. That is up to God alone. These were the reasons why Jesus spared the woman.

God Bless

Nadiine · Dec 17, 2006

seekthetruth909 said:
The first way of judging is the correct biblical way to judge. The second is wrong although our intentions may be good if we have the right attitude and do so with humility and love. The third way is what the bible speaks of when Jesus says, Judge not, that you be not judged. When we judge in this manner we are disobeying God. Jesus is also telling us to get our own act together before we judge others but even if we do we must still judge with the right attitude.

Unfortunately most of us use the #2 and #3 method of judging. In many Christian debates on this forum you rarely see people attempt to correct each other in a kind, patient, Christian manner with an attitude of love.

God Bless

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)

Well, we can't really know someone's motive for the judgment they make - most of that is just up to God to know & handle.

I'll only use the issue I was involved with, I wasn't judging out of piety, I was claiming that to use chronic vulgar cuss words & live together outside wedlock is not a Godly example.

AS a Christian, I'm SUPPOSED to make that clarification & distinction of how God expects of us to live if we claim His name. Eph 5:11, 1 Cor 5:13.

People are equally too inclined to just leap onto anyone's back who's discerning right from wrong in my opinion.
As if we have NO right to form ANY judgements on behaviour (while they judge OURS lol). :help:

1 last comment - I'm not as softspoken with some as I am others and that's mainly due to the way they assert their beliefs & other various issues.

I do see false teachers online and people with harmful teachings & some who bring division & attack the brethren as a hobby - Jude 21 or 25 & other scriptures tell us to make a distinction.

Jesus & the apostles also didn't react the same to all (Jesus used a whip & turned over tables in His Zeal for the House of God)... each person & situation is different - but all had the same motive of LOVE.
peace :angel:

Knight · Dec 17, 2006

Nadiine said:
Ok, does what you're saying pertain to the situation of Jesus protecting the woman caught in adultery?

According to Law (which was still in full effect, Jesus was obeying the Law), adultery was punishable by death. Yet He had her life spared.

There are different positions on why Jesus spared her - some are, we cannot impose physical judgment any longer on moral issues/sins...

others are, they were setting the woman up to be caught in the adultery and Jesus would't let them take her life for their malice.

Others teach that the male wasn't being properly punished by death, so He pardoned her.

?

Well He was not technically the one to spare her life. He instructed the crowd that the one without sin should cast the first stone. Obviously there was not one.

Except for Crist who exercised his divine right as God to forgive her sin and grant mercy and grace. Remember that God is the originator of the Law. He has the right to decide on punishment.

malckiah · Dec 17, 2006

Hello friend...i can see how there is a confusion :scratch:

about judging....but the answer is quite simple.
We are not supposed to judge others, but as the Bible says we are to judge all things.....sound confusing?....well, this is what it is saying.....we are able to judge right from wrong as in accordance with God's Word (not opinion). That kind of judgement is good and wise....and if someone is for sure, without question doing something that God calls wrong, then you may "judge" by God's Word that it is wrong. However, being that we as humans never really know the intent of someones heart....if we say that someone is wrong for any reason and we do not KNOW that they did it, then we are judging. Or if we say something is wrong that God in His word has not called wrong....then we are judging. Hopefully this clears things up for you! God Bless friend!
:preach:

Nadiine · Dec 17, 2006

malckiah said:
Hello friend...i can see how there is a confusion about judging....but the answer is quite simple.
We are not supposed to judge others, but as the Bible says we are to judge all things.....sound confusing?....well, this is what it is saying.....we are able to judge right from wrong as in accordance with God's Word (not opinion). That kind of judgement is good and wise....and if someone is for sure, without question doing something that God calls wrong, then you may "judge" by God's Word that it is wrong. However, being that we as humans never really know the intent of someones heart....if we say that someone is wrong for any reason and we do not KNOW that they did it, then we are judging. Or if we say something is wrong that God in His word has not called wrong....then we are judging. Hopefully this clears things up for you! God Bless friend!

Actually, it does help, yes. Those are some interesting points. Thank you for sharing that. :angel:

iannassah · Dec 18, 2006

Hey Nadiine!!! :wave:

When you point out that people are doing something wrong and you know for a fact that they are doing those things then you are stating a fact that probably will make people squirm inside and lash out! Their sin is exposed. They will say things that might confuse you or make you feel bad, it's the bad guy's tactics to get you to stop! You have God's Word--stand firm in what you know to be true!!! "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you..." James 4:7
Are these people that are being "judged" believing Christians?
I totally agree with malckiah's answer...i'll leave it at that!!! The LORD will provide the answer that you need!!! :amen:

JoeB · Dec 18, 2006

I'm a believing Christian, but I still come under other peoples judgement when I depart from the party line of my current fellowship.

I dont believe everthing I am expected to and get dirty looks when I challenge assumptions such as "once saved always saved" or I say I don't believe in a literal hell. This leaves me open to be judged as an unbeliever.

I was recently given a book to read about healing and after reading it I was asked about it. I said some of it interesting but I could not agree it was correct in its entirety. I was told "We know its true" and to think otherwise is ungodly was implied.

I was judged again for thinking differently. Do I have to swallow everything I am told by those who deem themselves spiritually superior?

Xcarvengerx · Dec 18, 2006

Hey Nadiine,

Someone has pointed this out, Matthew 7:2 - " For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

So don't worry if others think you have judged them, because if you have the right and close relationship with Jesus, Jesus said in John 8:16 ,"But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me."

And even if you only wanted to give a constructive opinion on something based on the Word of God, but was accused of judging, then keep doing that and let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. (Galatians 6:9)

SilverWings · Dec 18, 2006

I love this topic. It's pretty easy to work out what kind of judgment is acceptable when you get to know what Jesus is talking about...

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged"

In context, Jesus goes on to discuss the kind of judgment he is talking about. In verses 3 thru 5, he talks about hypocrisy at work in judgment.

Knowing this, we can very assuredly say we know what Jesus is saying in v.1. He is saying do not hypocritically judge. Do not self-rightesously judge. The same teaching is seen in Matthew 23:13-39.

Jesus isn't suggesting we must never judge no how, no way, never.

Nope. That's why it is written:

"The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment" (1 Corinthians, 2:15).

Nadiine · Dec 18, 2006

SilverWings said:
I love this topic. It's pretty easy to work out what kind of judgment is acceptable when you get to know what Jesus is talking about...

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged"

In context, Jesus goes on to discuss the kind of judgment he is talking about. In verses 3 thru 5, he talks about hypocrisy at work in judgment.

Knowing this, we can very assuredly say we know what Jesus is saying in v.1. He is saying do not hypocritically judge. Do not self-rightesously judge. The same teaching is seen in Matthew 23:13-39.

Jesus isn't suggesting we must never judge no how, no way, never.

Nope. That's why it is written:

"The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment" (1 Corinthians, 2:15).

That's the verse I was trying to find, thank you.

Do you have any thoughts on what condemnation is? What's the difference between them?

plmarquette · Dec 18, 2006

there are a number of granola bars in the body of Christ [ fruits , flakes , and nuts ] , but all of them are potential " saints " - ephesians 1.5,11 , when they accept Jesus ...

biblically we are to judge only ourselves ...
what can I do better , differently , or change in me to line up my life with God ...

dangers ... in Isaiah 14.12-15 +/- satan judged himself > God and fell ( revelation 12.1-11) ; proverbs 6.18-24 when we vent , loose it , gossip we judge others ;
the parable about the plank ( our faults ) , and the beam , a brother's fault ...

boils down to our motivation ... purpose of our heart ... Galatians 6.7 " what goes around , comes around " ;

Lord's prayer " forgive , that we might be forgiven " ;

Matthew 18.15-21 .. a process , slowly , in love , to correct a person in error ... intercession .

Nadiine · Dec 18, 2006

plmarquette said:
there are a number of granola bars in the body of Christ [ fruits , flakes , and nuts ] , but all of them are potential " saints " - ephesians 1.5,11 , when they accept Jesus ...

biblically we are to judge only ourselves ...
what can I do better , differently , or change in me to line up my life with God ...

dangers ... in Isaiah 14.12-15 +/- satan judged himself > God and fell ( revelation 12.1-11) ; proverbs 6.18-24 when we vent , loose it , gossip we judge others ;
the parable about the plank ( our faults ) , and the beam , a brother's fault ...

boils down to our motivation ... purpose of our heart ... Galatians 6.7 " what goes around , comes around " ;

Lord's prayer " forgive , that we might be forgiven " ;

Matthew 18.15-21 .. a process , slowly , in love , to correct a person in error ... intercession .

Well, the issue becomes what or who we judge - do we judge PEOPLE? or FRUIT?/actions/words etc.?

I agree we're to judge ourselves. But 1 Cor 5 says we're also to judge those WITHIN the church...
so.....? i dunno.

VCViking · Dec 18, 2006

As brothers and sisters in Christ, we need to hold each other biblically accountable. We are to use righteous judgement and exercise it with careful discernment. This would not include hypocrisy and/or a condeming spirit rising from self-righteousness.

Unfortunately, many of those being judged righteously have a hard time accepting that they might be wrong and like to use Matt 7:1, Luke 6:37 for their defense.

VCViking · Dec 18, 2006

plmarquette said:
biblically we are to judge only ourselves ...

That is incorrect. We are to judge each other, not only ourselves.

The Bible says in:

Matthew 18:15-17 (Jesus speaking)

15"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother."

16"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact mat be confirmed."

17"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."

SilverWings · Dec 18, 2006

Nadiine said:
That's the verse I was trying to find, thank you.

Do you have any thoughts on what condemnation is? What's the difference between them?

You're very welcome.

Judging is to discern right from wrong. That's where so many of the Pharisees and such fell down, because they weren't really able to do that without being hypocritical.

Condemnation is to place on someone seen as a sinner a sentence of some type. Usually it takes the form of sentencing someone to death. When we sinned, we were all condemned by sin. (It can be to hell that people are condemned to). We see this in John 8:1-11. Better than Jesus sentencing the woman to death for her sin, he mercifully saves her, and encourages her to leave her life of sin. He doesn't say her sin is OK. But he doesn't condone it, either.

Nadiine said:
Well, the issue becomes what or who we judge - do we judge PEOPLE? or FRUIT?/actions/words etc.?

I agree we're to judge ourselves. But 1 Cor 5 says we're also to judge those WITHIN the church...
so.....? i dunno.

We can make spiritual assessments - judge "all things." By people's fruit, by their actions, by their words - all those things help us assess if people are right or wrong.

We can self-assess. Plus we should always scrutinize those around us, otherwise we wouldn't know who was a servant of satan and who was a true Brother or Sister in Christ. We must discern right from wrong. We don't have to blow trumpets when doing so. But if something catches our "spiritual attention" then it's probably for good reason - whetehr to praise someone for what they have done; or whether to help them overcome some sin. Or, as in 1 Cor 5, whether to excommunicate them from the body.

1 Cor 5 is a classic example of how exercising mature judgment inside the church leads to keeping the church pure. Through correct judgment, an immoral brother is excommunicated, (and this only for as long as necessary to make good come from it).

Confusion about biblical "judging"

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