Virginia parishes secede from Episcopal Church over allowances for gays

TracerBullet said:

Well ya know…if they start treating homosexuals like human beings…they might have to start doing the same for blacks…

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We can't have that now can we?

Morcova said:

We can't have that now can we?

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Of course not.

Impressionable young children might see them and be tempted into accepting the black lifestyle

The larger body of Christ's response should be:

"Buh bye!

Take your ball and go home, nobody wants or needs you anyway"

And shake the dust off their sandals.

These people seem to believe (as many do) that Christian teaching speaks ill of homosexual behavior. If that is their belief, having gay clergymen would be an offense to their beliefs within their own religious group. It's really no wonder they would wish to leave the group.

As for treating gays like human beings: I don't know what this group does, but I disagree with homosexual actions and treat homosexuals like human beings. I agree that gays shouldn't be in Christian clergy positions, on the grounds of the religious belief I hold, but do not agree with keeping gays from much of anything else (as in other cases their orientation does not effect their jobs, etc.).

I wouldn't want a current adulterer as a clergy member, nor a promiscuous person. Nor do I want a gossip in that position. We don't put people in a position of accountability before God who won't recognize their sin and repent of it.

In most cases like this (religious belief and homosexual clergymen), it's a matter of the belief that the person in question is simply accepting a lifestyle of sin, instead of admitting it's wrong and working to get past the temptation. We (as the Christian community) would do the same with any habitual sin, and should be trying to pull these people back into God's will for them with love (but not a position of authority/accountability).

Rachel

Robinsegg said:

These people seem to believe (as many do) that Christian teaching speaks ill of homosexual behavior. If that is their belief, having gay clergymen would be an offense to their beliefs within their own religious group. It's really no wonder they would wish to leave the group.

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I know. I for one have grave misgivings about my church ordaining sinners to the episcopate.

TheGMan said:

I know. I for one have grave misgivings about my church ordaining sinners to the episcopate.

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That would pretty much leave nobody to be ordained.

wanderingone said:

That would pretty much leave nobody to be ordained.

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I can understand the view of the breakaway group on this. If you think homosexuality is a sin, then it makes sense that you would not want to ordain someone who unabashedly engages in that sin, does not consider it a sin, has no plans to repent of that sin, and no plans to stop engaging in that sin in the future.

As someone else mentioned, it would be akin to ordaining a preacher who is openly involved in an extramarital relationship, sees nothing wrong with it, and doesn't intend to put a halt to it.

Here's the scoop on the African Bishop that the churches have aligned with:

In Virginia, the two large churches are voting on whether they want to report to the powerful archbishop of Nigeria, Peter Akinola, an outspoken opponent of homosexuality who supports legislation in his country that would make it illegal for gay men and lesbians to form organizations, read gay literature or eat together in a restaurant. Archbishop Akinola presides over the largest province in the 77-million-member Anglican Communion; it has more than 17 million members, dwarfing the Episcopal Church, with 2.3 million.

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NYTimes article here

Is this really the kind of ArchBishop, and group of Christians that American Episcopals want to be aligned with. Are the members of these churches so opposed to homosexuals that they would agree to be part of a communion headed by Akinola, who advocates prison sentences for homosexuals in addition to the persecution described above? How is this following the teachings of Jesus? Is the enemy of my enemy really my friend? wouldn't that make allies of some pretty strange bedfellows?

Not really surprised. It was a bold and courageous move on the part of some Episcopalians to promote equality for all.

Hatred can sure be a strong motivator.

keltic63 said:

Here's the scoop on the African Bishop that the churches have aligned with:



NYTimes article here

Is this really the kind of ArchBishop, and group of Christians that American Episcopals want to be aligned with. Are the members of these churches so opposed to homosexuals that they would agree to be part of a communion headed by Akinola, who advocates prison sentences for homosexuals in addition to the persecution described above? How is this following the teachings of Jesus? Is the enemy of my enemy really my friend? wouldn't that make allies of some pretty strange bedfellows?

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No, that is not something I would endorse. You see, while we don't put unrepentant sinners in positions of authority/accountability, neither are we to shun them. Scripture is clear that the goal is always reconciliation, not punishment.

Rachel

Robinsegg said:

No, that is not something I would endorse. You see, while we don't put unrepentant sinners in positions of authority/accountability, neither are we to shun them. Scripture is clear that the goal is always reconciliation, not punishment.

Rachel

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and yet, at least 2 churches in the US are willing to place themselves under the Archbishop's authority.

keltic63 said:

and yet, at least 2 churches in the US are willing to place themselves under the Archbishop's authority.

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I think we're seeing two total extremes that (hopefully) will eventually settle somewhere center of where they currently are. Otoh, those Christians could just be wrong, wherein they may change later or never change.

Rachel

A lot of the Anglican African Bishops are polygamists, too.

It's EVE not STEVE !!

*runs away crying*

While I can understand a person acting according to thier belief - I have a hard time understanding choosing to split not in support of something but against something. Which seems to be the exact kind of problem God had to deal with with the first century church (you know, how can God go to those Gentiles, who don't even keep sabbath?)

I also have to wonder what kind of God a church worships if they believe that the word of God can be transmuted through a donkey in the case of balaam but they simply MUST leave because there is no way anything of God can come from someone gay.

In my experience, the concern is not that God WON'T work through (a gay bishop, a female bishop, whatever) but rather that God will - It seems the Church is avoiding the very essential question that Paul had to face - Is the spirit of God present or not? Because Paul had far more laws at his disposal to condemn than this church does now - yet both initially made the same error - trying to tell God who God SHOULD work through or accept. Yes, I understand that the church "cannot" accept a gay bishop in the same way they CANNOT accept someone who is unrepentant of thier sin - YET the entire bible is full of people God works through who are unrepentant of a particular sin - or rather, who are you to tell God who God can and cannot work through.

What bothers me about this is that though these are Christian supposedly acting in the name of God, they are shouting thier conviction so loud, I wonder if God is actually allowed a demonstrable voice in the matter. Or is it simply that God has gone too far, and might actually be working through people that the majority don't approve of? I guess they probably wouldn't be electing mass murderers and prostitutes as leaders either. Too bad that Jesus did in the first century - oh Jesus - you're such a bad example of Christianity!

Voegelin said:

Chronwatch
By BILL TURQUE and MICHELLE BOORSTEIN
Washington Post

At least seven Virginia Episcopal parishes, opposed to the consecration of a gay bishop and the blessing of same-sex unions, have voted overwhelmingly to break from the U.S. church in a demonstration of widening rifts within the denomination. . .

Two of the congregations are among the state's largest and most historic: Truro Church in Fairfax City and the Falls Church in Falls Church . . .(they) will form the core of what is envisioned as a new Fairfax-based mission of the conservative Episcopal Church of Nigeria. The head of the Nigerian church, Archbishop Peter Akinola, has voiced support for a pending law in that country that includes prison sentences for gay sexual activity . . .

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/nation/4408834.html

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Don't let the door hit them on the way out, cause buttprints look funny on a door.