How old is the earth? Maybe not as old as we think!

followjesus777 said:

You may not realize the damage until you try to leave.

Not all demons are demons of murder. There are many many types and "principalities" of demons. Any type of occult will open the door to serious demonic bondage.

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Historically, I suspect, Christianity has been a leading cause of death for Pagans.

The demons may have to get in line.

followjesus777 said:

you would be "clear" if you studied demonology, deliverance aka exorcism.

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So your magic words are different to their magic words? And the difference is only clear to those on the inside?

followjesus777 said:

You may not realize the damage until you try to leave.

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If there is no damage until I leave, then why should I leave at all?

followjesus777 said:

Not all demons are demons of murder. There are many many types and "principalities" of demons. Any type of occult will open the door to serious demonic bondage.

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My dear, you have never encountered a demon. Do not quote out of your Jesus handbook.[/quote]

Magnus Vile said:

I've never been entirely clear on the difference between prayer and spells...

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There's a difference?!

followjesus777 said:

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Ah, how relevant. Tell me, do you converse in smilies in the real world as well?

Wiccan_Child said:

There's a difference?!

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Apparently so, since it appears that your spells are obviously bad, and hers are obviously good.

As I said, I'm a little unclear on why that is.

Magnus Vile said:

Apparently so, since it appears that your spells are obviously bad, and hers are obviously good.

As I said, I'm a little unclear on why that is.

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Her definition of 'good' and 'bad' differ from yours. She defines them according to her Bible, and her Bible calls all magick that is not a passive request to the Christian god (i.e., Christian prayer), bad.

However, Wicca defines something as 'bad' if it violates anothers will, or if it harms another. Clearly, her and my definitions differ.

I'm curious: what is your position on the morality of magick (prayer, spells, and the rest)?

followjesus777 said:

God is capable of anything is He not???...well pretty much He cant lie tho!~

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Then god isn't capable of anything.

Congrats you've defeated your own argument.

followjesus777 said:

You are only "chosen" if you 'believe'...you will not need evidence.

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Exactly. You thrive on ignorance.

Some of us require proof before wasting our time.

followjesus777 said:

the TRUTH...

Many EXTREMELY qualified individuals have TRIED AND FAILED to proove The Scripture(Holy Bible) wrong...in your pride you think you can?

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I don't see why not, it's already been done so many other times on this board.

[insert highly sarcastic comment here]

followjesus777: Not only is the Bible a highly heterogeneous anthology and not a monolothic block of instruction, it has also been proven wrong in so many instances that only blind denial can make you ignore it.
Astronomy, geology, biology, ecology, palaeonthology, palaeobotany, genetics and even such fields as linguistics and history have shown that the Bible (as read by literalists) is just as wrong as any other collection of myths that have been penned by the ancients.

Wiccan_Child said:

Her definition of 'good' and 'bad' differ from yours. She defines them according to her Bible, and her Bible calls all magick that is not a passive request to the Christian god (i.e., Christian prayer), bad.

However, Wicca defines something as 'bad' if it violates anothers will, or if it harms another. Clearly, her and my definitions differ.

I'm curious: what is your position on the morality of magick (prayer, spells, and the rest)?

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That's pretty close to humanistic morality that most atheists live by. Personally I find that morality far superior to that of the God of the bible, which is highly black/white and relativistic due to differing interpretation.

and to your question on the morality of magick I see it as largely a waste of time but may be useful in psychological reinforcement before doing a task (psyching you up). I'm sure its fine as long as it doesn't take you over like it did to poor Willow.

TemperateSeaIsland said:

That's pretty close to humanistic morality that most atheists live by. Personally I find that morality far superior to that of the God of the bible, which is highly black/white and relativistic due to differing interpretation.

and to your question on the morality of magick I see it as largely a waste of time but may be useful in psychological reinforcement before doing a task (psyching you up). I'm sure its fine as long as it doesn't take you over like it did to poor Willow.

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I beg your pardon?

[exceptionally gruesome display of violence censored]

Bored now.

Wicked Willow said:

I beg your pardon?

[exceptionally gruesome display of violence censored]

Bored now.

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LOL! That's just funny. Did you feel your ears burning or something?

Wicked Willow said:

I beg your pardon?

[exceptionally gruesome display of violence censored]

Bored now.

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If it's any consolation, I think Willow rocks, and the Dark Willow saga was definitely in the top three Big Bad's (along with the First, and Glory) ^^

"I owe you pain"

followjesus777 said:

perhaps you dont know but the godess is a demon...you actually worship satan by bowing to her.

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Aw

That is a blow below the belt

Interesting discussion though

It depends on one's definition of 'demon'. Christians often define demons as any spiritual entity outside of 'accepted' Christian doctrine. Their self-ascribed morality is irrelevant; a 'demon' could genuinely want to help people, and could actually help people, but it would still help people without the authority of the god of the Christians.

Wiccan_Child said:

Her definition of 'good' and 'bad' differ from yours. She defines them according to her Bible, and her Bible calls all magick that is not a passive request to the Christian god (i.e., Christian prayer), bad.

However, Wicca defines something as 'bad' if it violates anothers will, or if it harms another. Clearly, her and my definitions differ.

I'm curious: what is your position on the morality of magick (prayer, spells, and the rest)?

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From my perspective, while I believe in neither, the morality of either would depend, entirely, on what effect was being asked for.

One thing that does worry me about prayer is the idea of "thy will be done." which, from my perspective, is not only a bad idea, but really, masochistic beyond belief. It surprises me that some Christians, who pray using those words, will be upset when, for example, a tornado takes out their home. They asked for his will to be done, why are they upset when it is?

Magnus Vile said:

From my perspective, while I believe in neither, the morality of either would depend, entirely, on what effect was being asked for.

One thing that does worry me about prayer is the idea of "thy will be done." which, from my perspective, is not only a bad idea, but really, masochistic beyond belief. It surprises me that some Christians, who pray using those words, will be upset when, for example, a tornado takes out their home. They asked for his will to be done, why are they upset when it is?

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Because, while they asked for their god's will to be done, they actually want their will to be done. It is typical human nature: we say one thing, and expect the listener to intrinsically know what we are actually saying.

Wiccan_Child said:

Because, while they asked for their god's will to be done, they actually want their will to be done. It is typical human nature: we say one thing, and expect the listener to intrinsically know what we are actually saying.

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That's where I have the problem. If I believed in an all powerful being that actually did requests, the last thing I'd be would be vague. There are too many stories about Djinn to be making loosely worded requests.

TemperateSeaIsland said:

LOL! That's just funny.

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Well, ummm, it was supposed to be funny as well. Darn, nothing takes the fun out of a joke better than having to explain it.

Did you feel your ears burning or something?

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Nah, I just gave you an impression of Dark Willow as seen on the TV show. "Bored now" is sort of a signature phrase used by Vamp Willow and Dark Willow.
Gaaah, now I outed myself as a Buffy geek!