Star Collides with Earth!

Aron-Ra

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Those "ancients" were not astrology-minded --- since astrology is forbidden.
There are astrological references throughout most religions, and even early Christianity. For example, in the earliest known depictions of Jesus in any church, he is shown driving Helios' chariot, carting the sun across the span of the firmament just like Apollo, and there are astrological symbols all over the surrounding sky.
 
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AV1611VET

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There are astrological references throughout most religions, and even early Christianity. For example, in the earliest known depictions of Jesus in any church, he is shown driving Helios' chariot, carting the sun across the span of the firmament just like Apollo, and there are astrological symbols all over the surrounding sky.

Oh well --- I tried.

You're as bad as Rmwilliamsll --- only with pictures.

I can't discuss Basic Christianity with either one of you, because all you want to do is present some other person's perspective.
 
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Tomk80

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Oh well --- I tried.

You're as bad as Rmwilliamsll --- only with pictures.

I can't discuss Basic Christianity with either one of you, because all you want to do is present some other person's perspective.
Perhaps they present it because they agree with it?
 
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nvxplorer

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Oh well --- I tried.
Giving up again?

You're as bad as Rmwilliamsll --- only with pictures.
Nice.

I can't discuss Basic Christianity with either one of you, because all you want to do is present some other person's perspective.
You can discuss what you term Basic Christianity all you want. People who disagree with you are naturally going to present evidence/opinion that counters yours (well, duh!)

Your task would be to convince us that your perspective is more reasonable than others. It seems that all you're doing is complaining about those who don't agree with you, and then retreating. Not very convincing.
 
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Aron-Ra

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Oh well --- I tried.

You're as bad as Rmwilliamsll --- only with pictures.

I can't discuss Basic Christianity with either one of you, because all you want to do is present some other person's perspective.
You said astrology was forbidden in early Christianity, but if pre-Renaissance Christian churches included astrology in their depictions of Jesus, then you were clearly wrong about that.

november.jpg


You can discuss virtually anything with me. But if you make a claim which can be tested for accuracy, be sure to be accurate, or be prepared to be proven wrong.

And if you are shown to be wrong, the best response would be to concede the point gracefully and move on.
 
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AV1611VET

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You said astrology was forbidden in early Christianity, but if pre-Renaissance Christian churches included astrology in their depictions of Jesus, then you were clearly wrong about that.

First of all, let's set the record straight. Astrology was not only forbidden in early Christianity, it is forbidden period. Early Christianity, late Christianity, early Judaism, late Judaism, early [whatever], late [whatever], it's forbidden --- case closed.

And all your pictures aren't going to convince me of anything.

Consider these two 'verbal pictures' from Scripture as an example of something forbidden - yet going on:

EXAMPLE ONE: INSIDE THE TEMPLE
  • [bible]Ezekiel 8:1-18[/bible]
Note specifically God's attitude toward it:
  • [bible]Ezekiel 8:17-18[/bible]
EXAMPLE TWO: IN THE COURTS OF THE HOUSE OF GOD:
  • [bible]Nehemiah 13:6-8[/bible]
The point of all this is that, just because people do it, and even make pictures of it, doesn't make it right; and your showing me pictures of someone using astrology is probably the very same picture God is going to show that person on Judgement Day.

Using that logic, then every videotape of a priest or pastor caught in a licentious act within the walls of a church, synagogue, or temple should not convict him of any sin - so long as it's on tape.

You can discuss virtually anything with me. But if you make a claim which can be tested for accuracy, be sure to be accurate, or be prepared to be proven wrong.

Believe me --- those pictures are not proof of poor hermeneutics on my part --- they're proof of tares growing among the wheat.

And if you are shown to be wrong, the best response would be to concede the point gracefully and move on.

I always concede if I'm wrong* --- so go for it.

* Unlike what you'll do on this astrology issue, probably.
 
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Morcova

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Oh well --- I tried.

You're as bad as Rmwilliamsll --- only with pictures.

I can't discuss Basic Christianity with either one of you, because all you want to do is present some other person's perspective.

Gosh, imagine that, when you talk to other people they present some other person's perspective and not your own.

Pure Insanity.
 
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MrGoodBytes

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First of all, let's set the record straight. Astrology was not only forbidden in early Christianity, it is forbidden period. Early Christianity, late Christianity, early Judaism, late Judaism, early [whatever], late [whatever], it's forbidden --- case closed..
Case reopened, Your Honor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_of_astrology


Wikipedia said:
Some hold that the stars generally do control the fate of people and nations, but Abraham and his descendants were elevated by their covenant with God, and thus achieve free will. (Midrash Genesis Rabbah 44:12, Yal., Jer. 285). A statement in the Tosefta (Kiddushin 5:17) holds that the blessing bestowed on Abraham is the gift of astrology. Midrash Ecclesiastes Rabbah states that the rulers of some non-Jewish were experts in astrology, and that King Solomon too had expertise in this realm. (7:23 no. 1)
There is a story in the Talmud according to which God showed to Adam all the future generations, including their scribes, scholars, and leaders (BT Avodah Zarah 5a). According to this source, the biblical Patriach Abraham bore upon his breast an astrological tablet on which the fate of every man might be read. Thus, kings are said to have congregated before his door in order to seek advice.
 
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Aron-Ra

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But didn't God set the stars as signs and isn't that the very fabric of astrology?
Yes, and the bit about spreading the stars out like a cloak was likely borrowed from Mithraism, which was also heavily astrological.
 
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Aron-Ra

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Aron-Ra

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And all your pictures aren't going to convince me of anything.
Who are you trying to kid? Nothing will ever convince you of anything you don't want to believe. Faith grants you the power to ignore anything and everything in order to preserve your a-priori belief.
Consider these two 'verbal pictures' from Scripture as an example of something forbidden - yet going on:

EXAMPLE ONE: INSIDE THE TEMPLE
  • [bible]Ezekiel 8:1-18[/bible]
Note specifically God's attitude toward it:
[bible]Ezekiel 8:17-18[/bible]
Yes, childish, insecure, jealous vanity. Not at all what I would expect of a superior being, much less a supreme one.
EXAMPLE TWO: IN THE COURTS OF THE HOUSE OF GOD:
  • [bible]Nehemiah 13:6-8[/bible]
Neither example is particularly meaningful, the latter least of all. Please try to use resources that are relevant and support your position consistently.
The point of all this is that, just because people do it, and even make pictures of it, doesn't make it right; and your showing me pictures of someone using astrology is probably the very same picture God is going to show that person on Judgement Day.
Unable to employ logic, you're reduced to weilding an empty threat. You're also unable to explain how it is that there are a couple hundred or so denominations still around which have very different ideas about what is or ain't permitted or condoned, endorsed or forbidden within Christianity, and try as you might, your personal interpretations and footnotes will not set the standard for the couple billion Christians who disagree with you on so many points.
Using that logic, then every videotape of a priest or pastor caught in a licentious act within the walls of a church, synagogue, or temple should not convict him of any sin - so long as it's on tape.
No idea what you're talking about here, or how it relates to what we were talking about before.
Believe me --- those pictures are not proof of poor hermeneutics on my part --- they're proof of tares growing among the wheat.
Ummm, what? :scratch:
I always concede if I'm wrong* --- so go for it.

* Unlike what you'll do on this astrology issue, probably.
How can I concede an error I haven't made?
 
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AV1611VET

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Aron-Ra

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Astrology was practiced in spite of the Scriptures, not in respect to them.
Thak you. I said, "There are astrological references throughout most religions, and even early Christianity", and you just admitted (albeit unwittingly) that I was right about that. At the same time, you said, "Those "ancients" were not astrology-minded --- since astrology is forbidden," and you've just declared your own statement wrong. Now can you concede either point gracefully, and move on?
 
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Aron-Ra

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Wasn't your saviour himself revealed through a sign in the sky?
The story of the 'morning star', 'son-of-the-dawn' being cast out of Heaven was also translated into astrology, with the part of Lucifer being played out every morning by the planet, Venus.
 
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MrGoodBytes

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From the same site: Astrology was practiced in spite of the Scriptures, not in respect to them.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Strictures against astrology appear in the official Torah commentary of Conservative Judaism and on the official website of Reform Judaism, and a number of Conservative and Reform rabbis have written against the practice.
Conservatism and Reformism aren't the only types of judaism in the world. Wikipedia clearly states that astrology was used by numerous rabbis and scholars throughout history, from King Salomon to the Middle Ages.
 
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Aron-Ra

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From the same site:
Astrology was practiced in spite of the Scriptures, not in respect to them.
Oh yes, I forgot to mention this too. As MrGoodBytes just pointed out, "Strictures" aren't scriptures; they're only "commentary". So again, you're basing much of your perception on footnotes, -other people's interpretations. Usually, you should have a Biblical reference for scriptures rather than an internet source instead.
 
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AV1611VET

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Conservatism and Reformism aren't the only types of judaism in the world. Wikipedia clearly states that astrology was used by numerous rabbis and scholars throughout history, from King Salomon to the Middle Ages.

Idolatry went rampant in Israel in King Solomon's time, since he married so many foreign wives, and Israel paid dearly for it.

Once again, astrology is a forbidden practice, as it is idolatry. The fact that they practiced it, shows how much they paid attention to what God said. The ten northern tribes were the first to pay for disobedience.

The first two Commandments forbids astrology.
 
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