The EQUALITY of Jew and Gentile...where did Peter and the 12 teach this?

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yeshuasavedme

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"And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise".
...
14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
...

Romans 9:4
4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
...


Romans 9:4 4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, -and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


Okay, on the "adoption" which pertains to "Israel", the nation:
what is the adoption?
who adopts?
who is adopted?
what is the name of the adoptee before the adoption?
what is the name of the adoptee after the adoption?
what is the name of the Adopter?
what is the heritage of the Adopter?
where did the adopter get the heritage -how did he get it?
 
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rightlydividingtheword

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2Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Doesn't that look familiar? Well sure it does. It was one of the promises that God gave to Israel.
Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.







He will be Israel's god, as well as the Gentiles's god also, but in two different aspects.
Colossians 1:2020) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.


Israel:inheritance of a earthly kingdom; where they will teach the gentiles

Isaiah 60:2-3
2) For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. 3) And the Gentiles shall come to thy(Israel) light, and kings to the brightness of thy(Israel) rising.


Isaiah 60:12
12)For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee (Israel)shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

Isaiah 60:2121) Thy people(israel) also shall be all righteous: they(israel)shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.


Isaiah 61:4-6
4) And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
5 )And strangers(gentiles) shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. 6) But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.


Jeremiah 31:35-37


35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

"the seed of Israel "IN Isaac shall thy seed be called
Romans 9:7
7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.


Who is this seed, are you saying that the seed is the gentiles as well?
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Is that, above, a response to this?

Romans 9:4 4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, -and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


Okay, on the "adoption" which pertains to "Israel", the nation:
what is the adoption?
who adopts?
who is adopted?
what is the name of the adoptee before the adoption?
what is the name of the adoptee after the adoption?
what is the name of the Adopter?
what is the heritage of the Adopter?
where did the adopter get the heritage -how did he get it?
 
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GLJCA

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He will be Israel's god, as well as the Gentiles's god also, but in two different aspects.
Colossians 1:2020) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.


Israel:inheritance of a earthly kingdom; where they will teach the gentiles

Isaiah 60:2-3
2) For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. 3) And the Gentiles shall come to thy(Israel) light, and kings to the brightness of thy(Israel) rising.


Isaiah 60:12
12)For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee (Israel)shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

Isaiah 60:2121) Thy people(israel) also shall be all righteous: they(israel)shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.


Isaiah 61:4-6
4) And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
5 )And strangers(gentiles) shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. 6) But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.


Jeremiah 31:35-37


35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

"the seed of Israel "IN Isaac shall thy seed be called
Romans 9:7
7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.


Who is this seed, are you saying that the seed is the gentiles as well?
You are taking scripture from before the kingdom was taken away from Israel. Israel is no longer the people of God nor will the nation of Israel every be again.

Granted there will be a remnant from Israel that will be saved as Paul writes in Romans 11 but even in that they will come back to Christ and be grafted back into the olive tree, where their inheritance will be the same as our's. All things are our's not just some things.

Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
1Cr 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;


GLJCA
 
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rightlydividingtheword

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You are taking scripture from before the kingdom was taken away from Israel. Israel is no longer the people of God nor will the nation of Israel every be again.

Jermiah 31:35-36

35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Who's right you or the scripture?


Jermiah 31:37
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
 
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GLJCA

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Jermiah 31:35-36

35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Who's right you or the scripture?


Jermiah 31:37
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
After AD70 Israel ceased to be a nation so does that mean that the sun, moon and stars departed from the Lord? No the stars, sun and moon remained as they were.

Here are several scriptures that show in actuality what the interpretation of that scripture should be.

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

Did the sun, moon and stars actually bow down to Joseph here? Nope he was prophesying about his family not actual sun, moon, and stars.

Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
A little study will show you that this is a prophecy concerning the fall of Babylon in 539BC. History does not show that the sun, moon, or stars stopped shining but the authorities of Babylon did fall from their highness and were destroyed. The sun, moon, and stars symbolize authorites and powers.

Eze 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
This one is a prophecy against Pharoah and Egypt and the sun kept shining.

Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joel here prophesied the fall of Jerusalem in AD70. Where the authorities of Israel would fall and be destroyed. The kingdom being taken away from Israel was not a surprise to the Lord.

The authorities of Israel(sun,moon,and stars)departed from the Lord and were destroyed in AD70. Therefore the nation ceased to be a nation before God.

If we are to be consistent we must interpret the sun, moon, and stars here to be the authorites in Israel because after AD70 Israel did cease to be a Nation.

GLJCA
 
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yeshuasavedme

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After AD70 Israel ceased to be a nation so does that mean that the sun, moon and stars departed from the Lord? No the stars, sun and moon remained as they were.

Here are several scriptures that show in actuality what the interpretation of that scripture should be.

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

Did the sun, moon and stars actually bow down to Joseph here? Nope he was prophesying about his family not actual sun, moon, and stars.

Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
A little study will show you that this is a prophecy concerning the fall of Babylon in 539BC. History does not show that the sun, moon, or stars stopped shining but the authorities of Babylon did fall from their highness and were destroyed. The sun, moon, and stars symbolize authorites and powers.

Eze 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
This one is a prophecy against Pharoah and Egypt and the sun kept shining.

Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joel here prophesied the fall of Jerusalem in AD70. Where the authorities of Israel would fall and be destroyed. The kingdom being taken away from Israel was not a surprise to the Lord.

The authorities of Israel(sun,moon,and stars)departed from the Lord and were destroyed in AD70. Therefore the nation ceased to be a nation before God.

If we are to be consistent we must interpret the sun, moon, and stars here to be the authorites in Israel because after AD70 Israel did cease to be a Nation.

GLJCA
As a sister in the One LORD who has saved us both, I do take issue on this point -but you do not have to believe me -and I won't hold it against you, as it is not a salvation issue for being saved.
~~
The promises made to Israel are eternally fulfilled in the heavenly promise of Mount Zion, that City which is being built which Abraham saw "afar off" [as many others did also, of the patriarchs] but God planned for earthly Zion to be a pattern of the heavenly which it has not yet been, and will be, during the millennial reign, and though he scattered the seed of Jacob in every nation, yet He promises that not one grain [seed] of them will fall to the earth.

Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as [corn] is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
and that He is bringing the seed of Jacob, called the "elect", back to the wilderness during the great tribulation from every nation of the world [and at His return also from the far corners of heaven, in that all the martyred of the tribulation will be resurrected in regenerated bodies and given their rewards to rule with Him during the millennium] and will pass the living 'elect' of earth under His rod and purge the rebels, giving the remnant remaining the blessing of eternal Life in His New Covenant, but not regenerated bodies at that time, is detailed in Ezekiel 20;33-44; for they will repopulate the earth during the thousand years of great Sabbath Peace, along with the sheep Gentiles who are gathered and judged to enter the millennial reign at His return, without being given regenerated bodies, but by being given eternal life in the New Covenant -along with all the redeemed of the ages. They will live for about a thousand years, as near as I can tell, for their days will be as the days of a tree and they will long enjoy the works of their hands.

Truly the whole earth, with earthly Jerusalem as Capital City, will be a pattern of the eternal earth and regenerated heaven's, uniting, that will yet come after the thousand years -by His Spirit's doing, for the glory of His great name which Israel, the namesake [of His New Man name, Israel -Isaiah 49] people, polluted.

Jesus, as the Word of God from the beginning, will not allow one word of His promises to fall to the ground. He will fullfill the land covenant given to the seed of Abraham through Isaac, confirmed to Jacob, which was raitfyed by two legal witnesses: God the Word and God the Spirit, as the Somking Furnace and the Burning Lamp.
Abraham had nothing to do with the ratification of the covenant of land promise, and his seed through Jacob has nothing to do to fullfill it
.

The Word is His and in the appointed season, He will act -but I believe the Church must be removed from earth for all the promises to be fullfilled in the land covenant, and for Israel to fullfill her oracles precisely, and the the second harvest of sons of God will be prepared on earth for the last harvest.
Both harvests are typed in the Feasts of Israel, which are called Memorials of YHWH, and are Memorials of His Person and work, and the spiritual fullfillment of those feasts is in the harvests of earth's sons of God, the early and the latter.

The twelve thousand from each of the twelve tribes of Israel are called "firstfruits", in Revelation, and are Firstfruits of the second harvest to come, after the thousand years, when all the redeemed will be in the City of Mount Zion above and it is filled with the glory of the Father and comes down to the regenerated earth.
 
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eph3Nine

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Issues for being saved SHOULD be discussed here. Salvation for we the Body of Christ is NOT found in ANY prophetic book. That includes Gen thru the first part of Acts, and Hebrews thru Revelation.

The gospel of OUR salvation, and not salvation for the Nation Israel, is found ONLY in Pauls epistles. He alone had "the preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION of the Mystery".

All else is pure poppycock and superstition, and relying on a program that God HIMSELF SET ASIDE over two thousand years ago.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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As a sister in the One LORD who has saved us both, I do take issue on this point -but you do not have to believe me -and I won't hold it against you, as it is not a salvation issue for being saved.
~~
The promises made to Israel are eternally fulfilled in the heavenly promise of Mount Zion, that City which is being built which Abraham saw "afar off" [as many others did also, of the patriarchs] but God planned for earthly Zion to be a pattern of the heavenly which it has not yet been, and will be, during the millennial reign, and though he scattered the seed of Jacob in every nation, yet He promises that not one grain [seed] of them will fall to the earth.

Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as [corn] is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
and that He is bringing the seed of Jacob, called the "elect", back to the wilderness during the great tribulation from every nation of the world [and at His return also from the far corners of heaven, in that all the martyred of the tribulation will be resurrected in regenerated bodies and given their rewards to rule with Him during the millennium] and will pass the living 'elect' of earth under His rod and purge the rebels, giving the remnant remaining the blessing of eternal Life in His New Covenant, but not regenerated bodies at that time, is detailed in Ezekiel 20;33-44; for they will repopulate the earth during the thousand years of great Sabbath Peace, along with the sheep Gentiles who are gathered and judged to enter the millennial reign at His return, without being given regenerated bodies, but by being given eternal life in the New Covenant -along with all the redeemed of the ages. They will live for about a thousand years, as near as I can tell, for their days will be as the days of a tree and they will long enjoy the works of their hands.

Truly the whole earth, with earthly Jerusalem as Capital City, will be a pattern of the eternal earth and regenerated heaven's, uniting, that will yet come after the thousand years -by His Spirit's doing, for the glory of His great name which Israel, the namesake [of His New Man name, Israel -Isaiah 49] people, polluted.

Jesus, as the Word of God from the beginning, will not allow one word of His promises to fall to the ground. He will fullfill the land covenant given to the seed of Abraham through Isaac, confirmed to Jacob, which was raitfyed by two legal witnesses: God the Word and God the Spirit, as the Somking Furnace and the Burning Lamp.
Abraham had nothing to do with the ratification of the covenant of land promise, and his seed through Jacob has nothing to do to fullfill it
.

The Word is His and in the appointed season, He will act -but I believe the Church must be removed from earth for all the promises to be fullfilled in the land covenant, and for Israel to fullfill her oracles precisely, and the the second harvest of sons of God will be prepared on earth for the last harvest.
Both harvests are typed in the Feasts of Israel, which are called Memorials of YHWH, and are Memorials of His Person and work, and the spiritual fullfillment of those feasts is in the harvests of earth's sons of God, the early and the latter.

The twelve thousand from each of the twelve tribes of Israel are called "firstfruits", in Revelation, and are Firstfruits of the second harvest to come, after the thousand years, when all the redeemed will be in the City of Mount Zion above and it is filled with the glory of the Father and comes down to the regenerated earth.
Salvation is only found in the name of the Son of Man, the Firstborn, who was Hid in God from the beginning, and was to come; and all the prophets [from the prophet Enoch even] and the law testify of Him, as His witnesses, from the beginning.
 
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GraceNotLaw

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If this was already a known factor in the gospel they preached, then why were Peter and the 12 told by Jesus NOT TO GO THE WAY of the GEntiles? Why were they told to "Go to NONE but the Jews?"
Now this is another one of those questions that tend to make a fellow think hard about what he has believed all his life.

Until I began studying the differences between what Peter taught and what Paul taught, I wouldn't even have considered this question.
However, it is a fact that Peter knew nothing about any equality between jew and gentile, but in fact taught that the Jews were a channel of blessing to all other nations.

Paul is the only one who taught that God would set aside His favored nation and do a new thing , apart from Israel this time.

To some, this would indicate a very huge departure from the norm, and they would be absolutely correct in making that assumption. It was a total turnaround and indicated that God began something quite new.
 
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