Who is God the Holy Spirit?

edpobre · Aug 2, 2001

Friends.

God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and He has seven Spirits that He sends out into all the earth (Rev. 5:5). The Holy Spirit we are talking about is either God the Father Himself because He is a spirit or one of the seven Spirits of God. And they are all holy.

The Spirit of Truth whom Jesus will send from the Father is definitely one of the seven Spirits of God. The Holy Spirit of promise that seals believers on their forehead (Eph. 1:13-14) is definitely another Spirit that comes from God. Now, which of the Seven spirits of God is the third person of the Trinity?

Jesus is a MAN (John 8:40) and he has flesh and bones unlike a Spirit which has none (Luke 24:39).

God is eternal because He has no beginning and ending, immortal because He cannot die, and invisible because no man has ever seen Him (1 Tim. 1:17); John 1:1

. On the other hand, Jesus came and proeeded from God (John 8:42), he was born of a woman (Gal. 4:4). he was visible and seen by thousands, he died (he cried My God, My God on the cross).

Jesus identified the Father as the only true God (John 17:3).

Clearly, the Bible does not support the "oneness" Pentecostal doctrine, the Trinity doctrine of Catholics and Protestants nor the Triune God doctrine of the Seventh Day Adventists.

Ed

Josephus · Aug 2, 2001

"God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and He has seven Spirits that He sends out into all the earth (Rev. 5:5)."

Isaiah 11:2 explains what the seven spirits are. In Hebrew coloquialism, the "seven spirits of God" is a term used to refer to the Holy Spirit. The number seven is used to signifiy completeness.

And we know that the Holy Spirit is God because that's what 1 Corinthians 2:11 states:

"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

Just as your spirit is you, as well as your mind is also you, and your body is also you, then so too is God's spirit still God, just as the Father is also God, and just as the Son is also God. Paul wrote: "In the same way..." I don't think Paul could have been more clear about his point, and therefore logic any more plain and reasonable.

Going on from here with this in mind.

You write: "Jesus is a MAN (John 8:40) and he has flesh and bones unlike a Spirit which has none (Luke 24:39)."

Let me ask you this? Do you have a spirit? Do you then have flesh?

We know a man has both. Why couldn't Jesus's spirit be the Spirit of God?

<><
Josephus

savinggrc · Aug 2, 2001

Why, how come I never thought of that??

[sarcasm]It can't possibly be right because it's too easy.[/sarcasm]

edpobre · Aug 2, 2001

Josephus,

You wrote:

Isaiah 11:2 explains what the seven spirits are. In Hebrew coloquialism, the "seven spirits of God" is a term used to refer to the Holy Spirit. The number seven is used to signifiy completeness.

Isaiah 11:2 Revised Standard Version states: "And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord."

Isaiah 63:16 identifies the "Lord" addressed in Isaiah 11:2 as the Father. Isaiah 11:2 is saying that God the Father has a Spirit that is not a person separate from him. However, we may call God's Spirit God in a figurative way just as John called God's WORD God in a figurative way because like the WORD, the SPIRIT has the power of God who owns it.

You wrote:

And we know that the Holy Spirit is God because that's what 1 Corinthians 2:11 states:

"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

God is the Father who has the Spirit. It is the Father who is God not His spirit. 1 Cor. 2:11 says Spirit OF God not God the Holy Spirit. Just as the Bible calls Jesus Son OF God, not God the Son.

You wrote:

Just as your spirit is you, as well as your mind is also you, and your body is also you, then so too is God's spirit still God, just as the Father is also God, and just as the Son is also God. Paul wrote: "In the same way..." I don't think Paul could have been more clear about his point, and therefore logic any more plain and reasonable.

Figuratively speaking, the spirit of God is also God because it has the power of God just as the word of God is also God (John 1:1) because it has the power of God who spoke it. But the spirit is not a separate and distinct person from God who owns the spirit just as the word is not a separate and distinct person from God who spoke it.

The Son of God is NOT also God because he is separate and distinct from God the Father. Besides, Jesus, the Son has identified the Father (separate and distinct from him) as the only true God.

You wrote:

Going on from here with this in mind.

You write: "Jesus is a MAN (John 8:40) and he has flesh and bones unlike a Spirit which has none (Luke 24:39)."

Let me ask you this? Do you have a spirit? Do you then have flesh?

We know a man has both. Why couldn't Jesus's spirit be the Spirit of God?

Because what you would like to say is not what the Bible says. Jesus' spirit is the spirit of the son of God. God the Father is separate and distinct from the son. How could the spirit of the Father be the spirit of the Son?

How can your spirit be mine too my friend. Each man has his own spirit that goes back to God when he dies.

Ed

ZoneChaos · Aug 2, 2001

God the Father is separate and distinct from the son. How could the spirit of the Father be the spirit of the Son?

Becasue the Father and the Son are part of the same Trinty that also includes the Holy Spirit. These three are God. The Holy Spirit being the Spirit of God, of which all are. Thus The Son of God, who is God has a Spirit who is the Holy Spirit, and the Father, who is God, has a Spirit, who is also the Holy Spirit.

Josephus · Aug 2, 2001

ed,

"Isaiah 11:2 Revised Standard Version states..."

let's first get to the basics, and let's use the actual hebrew text that the RSV was translated from (and the text all other bibles have been translated from for that matter). Because I believe you are not reading the actual Hebrew for yourself from which your own bibles are based on, I shall not endeavor to answer your refutations based on another person's translation.

I would like to ask you what your version of God is, because I can't for the life of me figure out why God's spirit is not God ("except in a figurative way") unless your definition for God is different than mine. So I ask you again, please define for me: God.

You seem to think there is a distinction between "Spirit of" God and God. To me that sounds like more than one...god:

"God is the Father who has the Spirit. It is the Father who is God not His spirit. 1 Cor. 2:11 says Spirit OF God not God the Holy Spirit. Just as the Bible calls Jesus Son OF God, not God the Son."

Using your same logic in analogy:
The mind of edpobre is not edpobre.
The soul of edpobre is not edpobre.
The body of edpobre is edpobre, but not his spirit.

Am I missing something here?

Let me restate your beliefs as I seem to have processed them:

What is God? The Father.

What is the Father? God.

Is the Father a spirit? no, but God is the Father, the Father alone is God, but the Father owns a spirit.

This is confusing, ed. So I ask again, "what is the Father?" Is he some sort of supreme conciousness person seperate and apart from his spirit, or is the spirit of God not actually the Father, it's ...just a spirit that is not the Father? I think that if you are confused at this point, that you need to recheck your theology on this.

i asked: Could jesus have had the spirit of God?

"...what you would like to say [about this] is not what the Bible says. Jesus' spiurit is the spirit of the son of God. "

actually, the bible doesn't say anything at all about the spirit of jesus. as far as i am concerned it is rather mute on the subject, unless of course the subject is already covered (in which case that subject is the Holy Spirit). And on issues the bible is mute about, areas of speculation are not areas I will ever consider it "ok" to derive my doctrine from - ever.

"How can your spirit be mine too my friend. Each man has his own spirit that goes back to God when he dies."

Our spirits are of the breath of life. All people born of man (from Adam) have that same breath of life adam had, which became tainted, and since it was hereditary, each one of us have that adam-god breath of life in us that does return to God if made righteous, or removed from God forever if judged unrighteous.

Jesus, however, was not born of Adam. Therefore he was not tained with sin, and thus his breath of life was different from ours (Adamites). That is why he could offer life to those perishing. We do not share the same breath of life with Jesus when we are born - we only can recieve it when we make him Lord and Savior of our lives. We become "adopted" as coheirs with Christ.

But let's not skew this topic off hand. We're talking about the deity of the Holy Spirit, Spirit of God, Holy Ghost - that who is on the earth today, etc.

edpobre · Aug 2, 2001

ZoneChaos,

You wrote:

Becasue the Father and the Son are part of the same Trinty that also includes the Holy Spirit. These three are God. The Holy Spirit being the Spirit of God, of which all are. Thus The Son of God, who is God has a Spirit who is the Holy Spirit, and the Father, who is God, has a Spirit, who is also the Holy Spirit.

The Bible does not state that the Father and the son are part of the same Trinity that also includes the Holy Spirit. The Bible also doesn't say that the Son of God is God. Everything you say here is false because the Word of God doesn't support what you are saying.

Ed

edpobre · Aug 2, 2001

Josephus,

You wrote:

I would like to ask you what your version of God is, because I can't for the life of me figure out why God's spirit is not God ("except in a figurative way&quot unless your definition for God is different than mine. So I ask you again, please define for me: God.

Click to expand...

According to apostle Paul, there is only one God, the Father who is the creator (1 Cor. 8:6). And according to Rev. 5:6, God (the Father) has seven spirits that He sends out into all the world. These seven spirits of God are collectively called the spirit of God or Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is an integral part of the Father who is God. Thus, when the Father is called God, it includes the Holy Spirit which is an integral part of the Father.

Yo

You seem to think there is a distinction between "Spirit of" God and God. To me that sounds like more than one...god:

"God is the Father who has the Spirit. It is the Father who is God not His spirit. 1 Cor. 2:11 says Spirit OF God not God the Holy Spirit. Just as the Bible calls Jesus Son OF God, not God the Son."

Using your same logic in analogy:
The mind of edpobre is not edpobre.
The soul of edpobre is not edpobre.
The body of edpobre is edpobre, but not his spirit.

Am I missing something here?

My spirit is not called Edpobre my friend. My body is not Edpobre, my mind is not Edpobre and my soul is not Edpobre.
The whole of me (mind, body and soul) is Edpobre. You cannot separate my mind from me and call it Edpobre.

The whole of the Father (which includes His spirit and His word) is called God. The whole of Jesus is called son of God.

You wrote:

Let me restate your beliefs as I seem to have processed them:

What is God? The Father.

What is the Father? God.

Is the Father a spirit? no, but God is the Father, the Father alone is God, but the Father owns a spirit.

The Father Himself is a spirit because God is a spirit. The Father who is God has seven spirits that He sends out into all the earth (Rev. 5:6). These seven spirits are collectively called spirit of God or Holy Spirit. You cannot not separate the Holy Spirit from the Father and call it God. As I said, the whole of the Father is God.

Ed

Josephus · Aug 3, 2001

God has seven spirits now? I see, you don't believe in triunity, but you do believe in septunity.

We worship in spirit and in truth: which of the seven spirits do we worship in?

savinggrc · Aug 3, 2001

:lol: septunity :lol:

These 7 are one. :rollin:

edpobre · Aug 4, 2001

Josephus,

Apostle Paul says that "...for US (meaning Christians), there is only one God, the Father and only one Lord, Jesus Christ (1 Cor 8:6).

The Father has seven spirits that He sends into all the erth (Rev. 5:6). These seven spirits are collectively called the Holy Spirit. Figuratively spreaking, the Holy Spirit, like God's WORD, is God because it carries the power of the Father whose spirit it is. The WORD was God because it carried the power of God who spoke it.

Still, the Father is the only true God (John 17:3), beluieve it or not!

Ed

Josephus · Aug 4, 2001

Still, the Father is the only true God (John 17:3), beluieve it or not!

Oh I see. The Father is the ONLY true God. So I take it that the Holy Spirit and Jesus are not the only true God but instead are the false God?

Let me ask you this:

God said you should have no other gods before him.

If the Father is the only true God, and we only worship the true one God and no other, then ... do you worship Jesus?

Wearynot · Aug 4, 2001

The Father Himself is a spirit because God is a spirit.

Who or what was walking in the garden with Adam? Who or what was having a conversation with Abraham?

edpobre · Aug 5, 2001

Josephus,

You wrote:

Oh I see. The Father is the ONLY true God. So I take it that the Holy Spirit and Jesus are not the only true God but instead are the false God?

Do you consider Jesus and the Holy Spirit as Gods? Then you have made them false Gods! The truth is Jesus is a man (John 8:40) whom the Father sent into the world and the Holy Spirit is the seven spirits of God the Father whom He sends out into all the earth (Rev. 5:6).

You wrote:

Let me ask you this:

God said you should have no other gods before him.

If the Father is the only true God, and we only worship the true one God and no other, then ... do you worship Jesus?

While it is true that God commanded that there shall be no other gods before him, God did not give the commandment to worship Him only. There is nothing in the Bible which says that we should only worship God.

We worship Jesus because God commands us to worship him (Heb. 1:6; Phil. 2:9-10). The Father seeks true worshippers to worship Him in spirit and in truth. Worshipping Jesus in conformity to His command is worshipping Him in spirit and in truth and glorifies God the Father (Phil. 2:11).

Ed

edpobre · Aug 5, 2001

Wearynot,

You wrote:

Who or what was walking in the garden with Adam? Who or what was having a conversation with Abraham?

Please give me the verses so I can answer your question.

Ed

Iddie4Him · Aug 5, 2001

Josephus,
I read this thread a little bit ago and it got me thinking, Is there more than one holy spirit? I think that the 7 spirits referred to in Rev 5:6 and even in Rev 1:4 can make them a bit hard to understand. The time i have spent reading has led me to believe that the spirits are the heads of the churches in those regions, I know this is wrong, But, further thoughts on this matter has got me thinking that they are Archangels that have been sent to protect and watch over the 7 churches of asia. Can you shed any light on this matter for me ?

To Edpobre
as far as who or what was talking to Adam and Abraham, The bible clearly states that it was God.

edpobre · Aug 5, 2001

Iddie4him,

Thanks for the input. The seven spirits that sit before the throne (Rev. 1:4) are definitely NOT God because the one who sits on the throne is God.

Ed

Josephus · Aug 6, 2001

Do you consider Jesus and the Holy Spirit as Gods?

Not seperate Gods, but one and the same God.

The truth is Jesus is a man (John 8:40)
- of course. So you could say that I believe this man is God.

Whom the Father sent into the world
- this I also agree with. Going with my first statement about there being one God, then you could say I believe that God sent himself to earth.

"and the Holy Spirit is the seven spirits of God the Father whom He sends out into all the earth (Rev. 5:6)."

That verse doesn't even say that. It does not say the Holy Spirit is the seven spirits, and that these seven spirits are the Holy Spirit. Besides, this verse isn't even an actual eyewitness account Ed. Instead it's a vision, and as we know about dreams and visions, they are all symbols requiring interpretation. If they are actual factual events, then you don't honestly believe me to think that a dragon will literally cause a third of the stars to fall to the earth! Heck, even if one star hit the earth, the earth would never exist after it. It'd melt! I am still waiting for a biblical explanation for what exactly is the Holy Spirit if He's not God.

"While it is true that God commanded that there shall be no other gods before him, God did not give the commandment to worship Him only."

Well, isn't what you worship a god? Isn't that the definition of worship? Some people worship money. Is money a god? No, but people worship it. Worship of anything other than God is blasphemy because to worship means someone :

1.Honors and loves someone or something as a deity.
2.Regards someone or something with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion.

We can't serve both God and money. We can't have one God and then one lesser god. No! One is the master, and the only master we can have is God. Who we worship is the ONLY one we truly worship. All others are second best.

But speaking of worshiping - as if to prove my point about all others being second best if they aren't worshipped first and foremost:

Do you worship Jesus Christ? Have you worshipped this man? Do you worship him? Or do you worship the Father? Who is more important in your eyes?

To me, they both are important because they are one and the same being who has revealed himself to us through the Father and through Jesus: He's God.

and as if to answer my question:
"The Father seeks true worshippers to worship Him in spirit and in truth. Worshipping Jesus in conformity to His command is worshipping Him in spirit and in truth and glorifies God the Father"

Worship 'Him' who? The Father or Jesus? I suppose you mean Jesus. In this case, I take it you worship Jesus because it is the same as worshipping the Father. Well my friend, that is a very interesting point I hope you just realized: Jesus receives God's worship.

edpobre · Aug 7, 2001

Josephus,

Do you consider Jesus and the Holy Spirit as Gods?

Not seperate Gods, but one and the same God.

The Bible says Jesus is a man not God. Show me where the Bible says Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same Gods. Otherwise, what you believe is heresy.

The truth is Jesus is a man (John 8:40)
- of course. So you could say that I believe this man is God.

Is that really what you believe my friend? Then you believe falsely since God is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Hosea 11:9).

Whom the Father sent into the world
- this I also agree with. Going with my first statement about there being one God, then you could say I believe that God sent himself to earth.

If that's what you truly believe, I pity the Russians who listen to your preaching. Your belief that God sent himself to earth is false and can't stand to reason.

If God the Father sent himself to earth as God the son, then who was the Father that God the son was praying to while he was on earth and on the cross? On the other hand, if it was God the son who sent himself to earth and God the Father remained in heaven, then you are saying that there were two Gods in heaven before God the Son sent himself to earth, which contradicts all scriptures regarding God.

"and the Holy Spirit is the seven spirits of God the Father whom He sends out into all the earth (Rev. 5:6)."

That verse doesn't even say that. It does not say the Holy Spirit is the seven spirits, and that these seven spirits are the Holy Spirit. Besides, this verse isn't even an actual eyewitness account Ed. Instead it's a vision, and as we know about dreams and visions, they are all symbols requiring interpretation. If they are actual factual events, then you don't honestly believe me to think that a dragon will literally cause a third of the stars to fall to the earth! Heck, even if one star hit the earth, the earth would never exist after it. It'd melt! I am still waiting for a biblical explanation for what exactly is the Holy Spirit if He's not God.

You talk about verses not saying this and that. Show me a verse which says that the Holy Spirit is God. And if the Holy Spirtit is not the seven Spirits of God, WHO is the Holy Spirit whom you say is God?

While it is true that God commanded that there shall be no other gods before him, God did not give the commandment to worship Him only."

Well, isn't what you worship a god? Isn't that the definition of worship? Some people worship money. Is money a god? No, but people worship it. Worship of anything other than God is blasphemy because to worship means someone :

1.Honors and loves someone or something as a deity.
2.Regards someone or something with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion.

In your earlier post, you said that "God commanded us to worship Him only." I say He did not. But instead of showing me the verse to support your allegation, you employ the standard squid tactic of Protestant pastors to divert to another topic to get out of a sticky situation. I am not even interested in your own definition of worship.

We can't serve both God and money. We can't have one God and then one lesser god. No! One is the master, and the only master we can have is God. Who we worship is the ONLY one we truly worship. All others are second best.

What you are saying is your own doctrine, NOT God's. Jesus is not another god. The rest of what you are saying is not Biblical.

But speaking of worshiping - as if to prove my point about all others being second best if they aren't worshipped first and foremost:

Do you worship Jesus Christ? Have you worshipped this man? Do you worship him? Or do you worship the Father? Who is more important in your eyes?

Read my post again my friend and go over the verses I quoted regarding my worship of Jesus. If you believe them, okay. If not, still okay with me.

To me, they both are important because they are one and the same being who has revealed himself to us through the Father and through Jesus: He's God.

Well, since you believe the commandments of men more than the Bible, what can I say. Jesus says he is a man (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). If you still insist that Jesus is God despite knowing the truth, that's your lookout. But I pity the Russians who listen to your false preaching.

[quoe]and as if to answer my question:
"The Father seeks true worshippers to worship Him in spirit and in truth. Worshipping Jesus in conformity to His command is worshipping Him in spirit and in truth and glorifies God the Father"

Worship 'Him' who? The Father or Jesus? I suppose you mean Jesus. In this case, I take it you worship Jesus because it is the same as worshipping the Father. Well my friend, that is a very interesting point I hope you just realized: Jesus receives God's worship.[/quote]

I do not worship Jesus because it is the same as worshipping the Father. That's what you say. I worship Jesus, the man, because it is God the Father's command. Worshipping Jesus glorifies God the Father. Obeying God the Father's command is worshipping God the Father in spirit nd in truth.

I hope this is clear enough for you.

Ed

LouisBooth · Aug 7, 2001

"The Bible says Jesus is a man not God. Show me where the Bible says Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same Gods. Otherwise, what you believe is heresy."

Hmm...What do you think the Holy Spirit is then? A lesser God or something?

"Is that really what you believe my friend? Then you believe falsely since God is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Hosea 11:9)."

Correct in a way..Christ was in the image of man..he was fully man and fully God. See your bible for details

"If God the Father sent himself to earth as God the son, then who was the Father that God the son was praying to while he was on earth and on the cross? On the other hand, if it was God the son who sent himself to earth and God the Father remained in heaven, then you are saying that there were two Gods in heaven before God the Son sent himself to earth, which contradicts all scriptures regarding God."

Actaully if you know what the trinity is it explains this problem very very well

"In your earlier post, you said that "God commanded us to worship Him only." I say He did not. "

Okay..back to commandment #1 ed...

Jesus is God ed..he says it in abundance..how many times do I have to list those verses for you? Yes he says he is a man also..because he is

100% man 100% God...Hence he was the PERFECT sacrifice because if he was just a man he wouldn't have been able to be it.

Who is God the Holy Spirit?

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