I got a kind of tough question...

papakapp · Jul 16, 2002

First, we start with some givens

God loves the world (John 3:16)
Love keeps no record of wrongs (I Corinthians 13:5)

Keeping these truths in mind

what is I Corinthians 3:14-15 talking about? how can it not be reference to keeping a record of wrongs?

I have thought of this at great length. The only thing I can think of is I am drawing the baseline in the wrong place so to speak. In other words, I Corinthians 3:14-15 refers not to people being punished for what they did wrong, but to people failing to be rewarded since they believed, but didn't edify the kingdom of God.

Any thoghts?

GraftMeIn · Jul 16, 2002

The Bible also tells us that unless we forgive others, we ourselves wont be forgiven.

Does that help clear things up a litte for you?

LouisBooth · Jul 16, 2002

"Any thoghts?"

Sanctification.

Chris†opher Paul · Jul 17, 2002

God loves us, but is in a unique posistion. He has to be responsible for our actions, and must reward/punish us accordingly. Perhaps the verse that says love records no wrongs is a general statement applying to humanity and its responsibilites.

SimpleChristian · Jul 17, 2002

papa....your explanation lies in the verses themselves.

Look at verse 3:11, which address the foundation that all believers build upon, which is Jesus Christ.  That is the base, the starting point, for all belivers...the grace and salvation provided by Jesus Christ.

Verse 12 speaks of building upon this foundation.  The building that is done is the works that we do as a result of our salvation.  If there are no works coming forth from a believer, then they need to check their foundation and make sure they are indeed saved, that their faith is real and not just intellectual.  If the foundation is truly laid, then there will be works built upon it.  James address this type of faith very well in his book.

Verse 13 begins speaking to us about what you could call the end time, or the judgement.  EVERY person, saved or unsaved, is going to have some sort of judgement.  No one will escape that.  This verse tells us that EVERY person's works are going to be shown, what they build upon their foundation of salvation.  Everyone is expected to build something upon their salvation, to have done something with the gift of grace which was given to them.  This verse assures us that our works will be examined to see what sort of works they are.

Verse 14-15 simply state what will be given to people based on their works.  In 15 we see that some people who are saved will not have produced much real 'fruit'.  They will remain saved, however since they did not do much work for the kingdom, their reward will not be much, if anything, beyond their salvation and eternal life.  Verse 14 just says that those who have produced works that 'stand' will receive their just reward.

For example...a person who is saved but does not really do much for God, never really witnesses or helps bring anyone else to Christ....would you expect that person to be rewarded as highly in Heaven as say, the apostle Paul?

wogand · Jul 18, 2002

Reply to #5:

AMEN, amen and amen again!!!

Thunderchild · Jul 18, 2002

First, we start with some givens

And therein lies the problem. Start with "what does this verse say" and then look in the same way at all the verses that address the same issue . Once that is done, the overall message of everything that has been said about a given issue becomes clear. After that, go over the verses that seem to be in opposition and check if they really are. Starting with givens tempts the student to re-interpret all he examines in accord with the givens.

aforchrist33 · Aug 8, 2002

The answer to your question is simple

1. Jesus love paid for everyone's account ..... But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while (WE WERE YET SINNERS), Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

2. Leaving no record of rong doing ..... To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, (NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES) unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 2 Corinthians 5:19

Only those with no love keep record of rong doing by refusing payment of the account to justify themselves.

Julie · Aug 9, 2002

Originally posted by SimpleChristian
papa....your explanation lies in the verses themselves.

Look at verse 3:11, which address the foundation that all believers build upon, which is Jesus Christ.  That is the base, the starting point, for all belivers...the grace and salvation provided by Jesus Christ.

Verse 12 speaks of building upon this foundation.  The building that is done is the works that we do as a result of our salvation.  If there are no works coming forth from a believer, then they need to check their foundation and make sure they are indeed saved, that their faith is real and not just intellectual.  If the foundation is truly laid, then there will be works built upon it.  James address this type of faith very well in his book.

Verse 13 begins speaking to us about what you could call the end time, or the judgement.  EVERY person, saved or unsaved, is going to have some sort of judgement.  No one will escape that.  This verse tells us that EVERY person's works are going to be shown, what they build upon their foundation of salvation.  Everyone is expected to build something upon their salvation, to have done something with the gift of grace which was given to them.  This verse assures us that our works will be examined to see what sort of works they are.

Verse 14-15 simply state what will be given to people based on their works.  In 15 we see that some people who are saved will not have produced much real 'fruit'.  They will remain saved, however since they did not do much work for the kingdom, their reward will not be much, if anything, beyond their salvation and eternal life.  Verse 14 just says that those who have produced works that 'stand' will receive their just reward.

For example...a person who is saved but does not really do much for God, never really witnesses or helps bring anyone else to Christ....would you expect that person to be rewarded as highly in Heaven as say, the apostle Paul?

Good.

Thunderchild · Aug 10, 2002

For example...a person who is saved but does not really do much for God, never really witnesses or helps bring anyone else to Christ....would you expect that person to be rewarded as highly in Heaven as say, the apostle Paul?

Nope, I would expect such a one to be dealt with in just the way that Jesus declared with the parable of the talents.

LightBearer · Aug 10, 2002

There is a fire that we all face in lifetests of our faith. (John 15:20; James 1:2, 3) The Christians in Corinth needed to know, just as we today need to know, that everyone to whom we teach the truth of Gods word will be tested. If we teach poorly, there may be sad consequences. Paul warned: If anyones work that he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward; if anyones work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved; yet, if so, it will be as through fire.1 Corinthians 3:14, 15.

In answer to your question, lets look to 1 Corinthians chapter 3, where Paul likens the Christian minister to a builder. We read: According to the undeserved kindness of God that was given to me, as a wise director of works I laid a foundation, but someone else is building on it. But let each one keep watching how he is building on it. For no man can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians chapter 3 Verses 10, 11.

What kind of building work is Paul talking about? Well, note the context: You people are . . . Gods building. You people are Gods temple. (1 Corinthians 3:9, 16) So it is a figurative building work, one involving people. That is to say, the Christian minister builds people in the sense that he endeavors to build up in interested persons a Christian personality, making disciples out of them. Matthew 28:19, 20.

Does that suggest that the Christian teacher has the sole responsibility for how the student develops? Not at all. In the first place, we are Gods fellow workers. While Pauls words at 1 Corinthians 3:9-15 focus on the responsibility of the one building, or teaching, really it is a joint building work in which the student also is involved. We might compare it to preparing a soldier for battle. Others may train and equip him, but once he is out in the battle the soldier must put up a fight, using what he has learned. His very life depends upon it! Similarly, the one teaching endeavors to build a genuine Christian, one able to resist the pressures and temptations of this system. At the same time, though, the student has a responsibility; he has to apply in his life what he learns.Matthew 7:24-27; Philippians 2:12, 13.

Nevertheless, the fact remains that the one teaching has a weighty responsibility.

The apostle Paul received a reward. To Christians in the city of Thessalonica, where he had also done building work, he wrote: For what is our hope or joy or crown of exultationwhy, is it not in fact you?before our Lord Jesus at his presence? You certainly are our glory and joy.1 Thessalonians 2:19, 20.

Pastor N.B. · Aug 25, 2002

Originally posted by papakapp
First, we start with some givens

God loves the world (John 3:16)
Love keeps no record of wrongs (I Corinthians 13:5)

Keeping these truths in mind

what is I Corinthians 3:14-15 talking about? how can it not be reference to keeping a record of wrongs?
**********
Hi,
I believe if you look up in your concordace, (Strongs?) the word books, record books, and other similar meanings, that you will see Rev. & Daniel & Eccl. 12:13-14 come to view? And in Eze. there are subjects that teach that LOVE is not always [our] quality. (there is much tough love also)

What do we do with 1 Cor. 6:3-5+?? Perhaps our understanding is different than this passage?

But for your question in 1 Cor. 3? It seems to me that the thinking is about the seed sowing of Paul & Apolos. And future ministers by whom [ye] believed, even as the [Lord gave] to every man. Verse 4-11. In other words Christ is the [only important one]

Then comes your verse to [these ones] in verse 14-15. It seems that Paul had an hard time trying to get Christians to understan also?
So lets try again!
These ministers of God as Paul states are just that, ministers! "but God gave the increase." Yet, he is still saying that THEIR work, (of converted souls) of converts is to be tested & tried in the fire to see if it will be of the proper sort?? try Na. 1:9. Their work is clearly seen at the [start], "For other foundation can 'no man lay than that is laid, which IS JESUS CHRIST".

But each of these new convert ones, that are given the 'ernest of the Spirit' can still make shipwreck! See Heb. 12:1-8. Heb. 6:1-6. 2 Peter 2:20-22.

Also Paul tells of his WORKS (converts) that can be lost, but "if" the minister is, and has been faitful, as seen in Matt. 28:[20], (as just one point)
and his work abide, he will (Paul) receive an reward & if not, Paul is saying that he will suffer loss. Not reward loss only, but he will have a spirituall {HEART ACHE} in any lost soul. And again, "BUT HE (the seed sower) HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED"

Let me leave you with another thought? Paul was given a hard time by his one time brothers! But the Lord penned these Words not only for Paul, but for all self supporting ones also, perhaps?
1 Cor. 9:1-2
"Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? (notice!) are not [ye *my work in the Lord?]
If I be [not an apostle unto others,] yet DOUBTLESS I AM TO YOU: For [THE *SEAL OF MINE APOSTLESHIP ARE *YE IN THE LORD.]" This is the answer from many seen here in Pauls penned verses down through the ages! CALLED OF GOD, yet not of 'denominations'?

P/N/B/ with added highlights
******

I have thought of this at great length. The only thing I can think of is I am drawing the baseline in the wrong place so to speak. In other words, I Corinthians 3:14-15 refers not to people being punished for what they did wrong, but to people failing to be rewarded since they believed, but didn't edify the kingdom of God.

Any thoghts?

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I got a kind of tough question...

papakapp

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GraftMeIn

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LouisBooth

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Chris†opher Paul

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SimpleChristian

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wogand

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Thunderchild

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aforchrist33

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Julie

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Thunderchild

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LightBearer

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Pastor N.B.

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