something about wedding ceremony. (really need your advice)

JesusistheGod · Nov 20, 2006

something about wedding ceremony. (really need your advice)

Frist, I'd like to introduce the background. I am a Chinese Christian. I got to know Jesus in 2003, when I studyed in Ireland. I confessed my sin before Him. I attended the fellowship--the door of hope, regulaly. I joined the christian student union in the college. My wife (we just got official register, but not having a wedding ceremony yet, which is planed to be taken in the next May), is a Christian too. She got the whole Christianity idea from her Irish teacher in college. I will say, she believes God indeed, but she is immature for sure, cause she is only 23.
Anyway, as told you before, we plan to have wedding ceremony in next May. We wish we can have it in a church, but the problem is since we both dont have baptism we can not have it in the church in China. I feel they dont recognize us as Christians.
In Ireland, I asked my fellowship bros:" Am i a christian now." They said " yes , you are." "People dont born as a Christian, Like Catholic, everyone get Baptism when they were born, but this could not make them a christian automatically." I think that does make sence. In Ireland, I also could get baptism anytime, but in China if anyone wants to be baptised, he or she must attend the learnning class frist. I disagree with that.
I think cofessing your sin before God and devoting your heart to Him make a person a christian. Remember John the Baptist said" I baptise people with water, but you baptise them with your spirit." Second, you dont need to have the knowledge about Christianity frist, then become a christian later. You fully trust in God frist, which makes you a christian, then you eager to know about the knowledge of Christianity later. thrid, every christian has the power to baptise the others ( My Irish bros would agree with that), God doesnt appoint anyone to have this power exclusive.
About my problem, the 3-self church leader offer me two ways: pass the class or no way. I am sure I can pass the seminer if I attend, but I just think it is not right. So I refuse the offer.
Am I right? Am I a christian? Which group I belong to?
I am sure I am in the fellowship who believe God. We think it is not a religion, it is just a life style, it is the truth of life. I am not religious, I believe God casue He is true. Am I still a Christian?
Fish in Greek, the capital words refer to Jesus is the God.

Assisi · Nov 20, 2006

If you believe in water baptism, then why not get baptised. This should solve the problem.

Is the class a pre-requisite for baptism? If this is the case, and you do want to be baptised, then why not take the class? It's not that they are denying your faith in Christ, it's just that they want to help you to grow in that faith before you are baptised. No one can tell you that you do not have faith in Christ, it seems like they want you to know some more about Christ and baptism before you are baptised.

Tamara224 · Nov 20, 2006

JesusistheGod said:
Am I right? Am I a christian? Which group I belong to?
I am sure I am in the fellowship who believe God. We think it is not a religion, it is just a life style, it is the truth of life. I am not religious, I believe God casue He is true. Am I still a Christian?
Fish in Greek, the capital words refer to Jesus is the God.

Yes, you are Christian, brother.

8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." (Romans 8:10-13)

You should get baptized though, as Jesus instructed. But you don't need to go to church to do that. Jesus was baptized in a river. The Apostles baptized people in whatever body of water was around. Find some other believer and a body of water and get dunked.

As far as getting married in the church goes... I understand that you want to do that but if they require something from you that you are not willing to do... Well, there's no Biblical rule that you get married in a church.

I pray that God will guide your steps and show you what He would have you do. God bless you!

JesusistheGod · Nov 20, 2006

My problem is:
1,I dont think Baptism makes me a Christian.
2,I should get baptised freely, if I am a Christian. Defining the nature, then filling the content.
3,The church shouldn't refuse christian couple get married in it, just because they dont have baptisted. Once they are christians ,they should have the right to show their love before God in church.

Gwenyfur · Nov 20, 2006

no baptism doesn't make you a Christian...it's a step of obedience...if you aren't willing to learn about that obedience in order to be baptised...how then will you surrender what *you* think over to what G-d wills?

Once again...Salvation is freely given...a gift...your obedience to G-d is your gift in return...after all...is a class really all that much of a sacrifice when you consider Y'shua's sacrifice for all of us?

The church is doing exactly as it should...keeping the flock pure...any questions on that ?? Read Corinthians...after all..if you're not willing to be obedient to the learning and instruction of the Bible...how then will you be obedient and led by the Spirit of G-d?

Oh...and back to the OP...are you often that condescending to your bride to be? Immature because she's 5 years younger than you??? Perhaps you should read up on the studies that prove women emotionally mature at a faster rate than men...

JesusistheGod · Nov 21, 2006

No offence, my girl is immature for sure. NOt because her age, for the behaviour.
I am willing to get baptised, but I dont think it is right to put a class before it.
I know the Bible knowledge, and I am keeping studying it, but not just for passing a class to prove somethig like " Now I am qulified to be a christian, or I know something about Jesus you dont know". I learn Bible for it makes me happy spiritually, for it is the truth.
As I said I like to have baptised, but only for I am a christian ,not for I am knowledged enough to be a christian. I still think, once a man trust God and do what God said to do, he is a christian, he should get baptised freely. no matter he can read or not, even he is disability person.
I am not against the Baptism, but I dont like idea they put a class in front of it.
John the Baptist preached gospel in Jews. telling them the truth to persuade to get baptised. Otherwise no one wanted to be baptised. Now, the fact is people know Jesus is the God first, then they want to be baptised. Why put another class before it? If they dont know the truth, they would not go to have baptism. Bible study can be located after baptism.
Furthermore, I dont agree with that Baptism makes church pure. <<God father>> makes it vivid.
Once again, I am not against Baptism, but I wish every christian can have it freely. And it should not be considered as the obstacle of having wedding ceremony in church. Moreover, who give the power of Baptism to church?

Gwenyfur · Nov 21, 2006

then if all you are saying is true...a 'class' which could only further your knowledge of Y'shua Messiah shouldn't be such a hardship for you...

There are men who've studied the Bible their whole adult lives that still don't know all there is to know...it's only arrogance and pride that would keep you from wanting to know more...

I agree that baptism doens't make the church pure...that is not what I said...but their duty is to teach and instruct so that the church remains pure...quite a difference there...

if you're so against taking a class...(not to become a Christian but to gain more knowledge) then why are you bothering to claim Christianity...after all...a Christian hungers after the teachings and word of G-d. It seems odd that you don't care to take a class which has the potential to deepen your understanding and knowledge...

again...what's the big deal?

BelindaP · Nov 21, 2006

While it may seem silly to you to have to take the class, it is what your church requires. Many churches require some sort of membership class before becoming baptized.

Jesus commanded us to submit to authority, unless the authority was against God. Since the church is the authority in this case, you should submit to taking the class because that is what Jesus would want you to do. Getting baptized is more important than proving a point by not taking the class.

You are saved before God because you have accepted Jesus. However, you need to be baptized as an act of obedience. Would you really want to explain to God on the day of Judgement that you chose to disobey Him because you were too proud to take a class?

sawdust · Nov 21, 2006

JesusistheGod said:
No offence, my girl is immature for sure. NOt because her age, for the behaviour.
I am willing to get baptised, but I dont think it is right to put a class before it.
I know the Bible knowledge, and I am keeping studying it, but not just for passing a class to prove somethig like " Now I am qulified to be a christian, or I know something about Jesus you dont know". I learn Bible for it makes me happy spiritually, for it is the truth.
As I said I like to have baptised, but only for I am a christian ,not for I am knowledged enough to be a christian. I still think, once a man trust God and do what God said to do, he is a christian, he should get baptised freely. no matter he can read or not, even he is disability person.
I am not against the Baptism, but I dont like idea they put a class in front of it.
John the Baptist preached gospel in Jews. telling them the truth to persuade to get baptised. Otherwise no one wanted to be baptised. Now, the fact is people know Jesus is the God first, then they want to be baptised. Why put another class before it? If they dont know the truth, they would not go to have baptism. Bible study can be located after baptism.
Furthermore, I dont agree with that Baptism makes church pure. <<God father>> makes it vivid.
Once again, I am not against Baptism, but I wish every christian can have it freely. And it should not be considered as the obstacle of having wedding ceremony in church. Moreover, who give the power of Baptism to church?

No offence meant but it sounds like the church you attend, "the door of hope", wants you to bring your own key.

It sounds to me like you already know the way. No-one can tell you what you must do except to say whatever you do, do it in faith.

Let the knowledge of the Word that you have in your own soul be your guide to make a decision.

If it helps, marriage is not the function of the church. The Lord God instituted marriage when He created Eve. The church didn't even exist then.

You don't have to be married in a church to be married and the ceremony doesn't have to be performed by a minister or priest.

I don't know what it is like in China but in our country people can become registered with the state authority to become what is called "celebrants". They can perform marriage ceremonies anywhere you want to be married. In our country we have celebrants who are Christians and celebrants who are not Christians.

peace

JesusistheGod · Nov 21, 2006

Maybe the language thing prevent explianing myself clearly.
I eager to know ,and I am doing it, but I dont want to do it for authority. However BelindaP just made a good point that "submission to the authority unless it is not against God" Jesus did say that. Your words reminds me that. Thanks.
Pride, surely I dont have. I just feel it is unfair about the issues.
I am keeping reading Bible and attending service every week. I just can not understand we are all christians,but why In Ireland I could get baptise if I felt it is the right time. but in China I only can get baptise if they feel I am qualified. You know. It is more like the difference between" You need to prove something before taking the next step" and " I am ready to face the next stage"
The Internet is a problem, because without communicating personally, everybody sounds offensive to others. However the truth is if we discuss in a group personally, it is more convinciable.
Just collecting the comments and trying to agree with the majority.
One more question: do I need this curious and thinking character in my christian life? wondering a lot.

JesusistheGod · Nov 21, 2006

Plus, "the door of hope" locates in Limerick, Ireland. I used to attend it and I knew God there.
Now ,I am back in China. I attend St. Paul's church nanjing. It is the church I refered to.

repentant · Nov 21, 2006

If my research was correct, the Church you attend is Episcopalian. This is why they require a class prior to Baptism. They want you to know the faith you are choosing to be Baptized into. Most of the "big" Churches do this. Orthodox and Catholics have catechism classes as well.

Gwenyfur · Nov 21, 2006

I don't mean to come off as "mean" or "rude" ... I'm just one of those naturally blunt people

One thing I've found in my years is that when we start crying "it's unfair!" it truly is a matter of pride...after all...what Messiah Y'shua went through for us...that wasn't fair either...
and BelindaP is correct...we are to submit to the authority our Savior puts over us...even when we don't think it's to our benefit...

Even if you only gain one teeny kernel of knowledge from that class....it's one more than you entered it with ... and thus...making it a gain...

yes, a hunger for more knowledge of the Bible and of G-d, His Son Y'shua is a good thing to have in your Christian walk...never a waste of time

DeaconDean · Nov 21, 2006

Friend, I wish I had words of wisdom for you, but the undeniable fact is: you live in a country where you cannot enjoy the same freedoms as I. And that my friend is truly sad. I did not get married in a church. My wife and I went to the Justice of the Peace, and he married us. From what you describe, baptism is required before you can get married. That is so wrong. Where in the Bible is there presidence for that? Was anybody baptized before they were married in the New Testament? Did Jesus require the newly wed couple whose wedding ceremony He attended and changed the water into wine, did He require them to be baptized first?
I'm a Baptist, and as such, my profession of faith in Jesus Christ is followed by my baptism as a public profession of my death to my old sinful ways and self, and rising up from the grave with Christ, a new creature. And by being baptized, I can can now partake in the churches and Christ's ordinance for the Last Supper. Baptism does not infer any grace, according to my Protestant beliefs, and what I've read in the Bible. It cannot save me, nor does it complete my salvation process. It is my public profession of faith in Him and because He was Baptized, I need to be Baptized. Jesus set the example for all to follow. And herein lies your problem. Some churches require baptism. So be it. My bible also says for me to:

"Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:" -1 Pet. 2:13-15

If you know in your heart what is right, and God knows your heart, I believe you'll be justified in the end.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Full_Moon · Nov 21, 2006

Submission teaches humility, but we must submit to God first. If God commands us to obey our authorities then we must obey our authorities. If we do not obey our authorities as God commands, then we disobey God. Humility is a very important virtue.

People in churches can sometimes be wrong. Perhaps it is wrong for a church leader to demand you take a class before baptizing you or perhaps the church leader is wiser than yourself and demands it for your own benefit because he loves you. Would he baptize you if you were retarded and could not take the class? Would he baptize you if you could not understand the class? But you are intellegent and able to understand the class, so this does not apply to you.

For many years I was a Christian all alone, not going to church. Every church had something wrong with it. One day I told this to a wise pastor, that every church had something wrong with it and I had not found one that was without fault. He told me that every church would find something wrong with me too... :idea:

I will share with you why I go to church. It is like a stick that burns with fire. By itself, the stick can only burn so hot and perhaps the flame can be blown out. Yet when that one stick is put with other sticks, the fire of each supports the fire of the others and the bundle burns even stronger and hotter. No one can blow out a great bundle of burning sticks.

I was married in a church and the pastor made us take a marriage course even though we were both baptized. He would not marry us without this course. He is a person older and wiser than myself and since there was only good to be gained I agreed.

A wise person knows which battles should be fought and which battles should be left unfought. If someone is refused baptism because they are too dumb to pass the course, then I would fight that battle for that person. But if it does not harm you to take the course then I would not fight that battle. This is just my advice.

God Bless you.

bliz · Nov 21, 2006

It is reasonable and right for a church to require a class before they baptize someone. The early church spent several months with new converts before they could be baptized.

However, requiring that people pass a class does not seem right. One's score on a quiz should not keep one from baptism! But the lack of an understanding of God and salvation should.

JesusistheGod · Nov 22, 2006

Very helpful comments for me. I kind agree with"learnning from what Jesus did for us, stopping judge or question the men, or I will be judged" You know there are a lot of weird stuff in our 3-self church. Now I am thinking just doing it and let Jesus judges them. He will do the right thing to change or to keep. I dont know, but God must know.

JesusistheGod · Nov 22, 2006

Ok, a new issue, must I get baptised in the church? Can my christian friends baptise me? Then, I go to the church to get married. But what if the church leader say " my baptism" is not correct/work?

repentant · Nov 22, 2006

JesusistheGod said:
Ok, a new issue, must I get baptised in the church? Can my christian friends baptise me? Then, I go to the church to get married. But what if the church leader say " my baptism" is not correct/work?

Just get Baptized in a Church in the Name of the Father, and The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

Gwenyfur · Nov 22, 2006

yeah...what repentant said...

something about wedding ceremony. (really need your advice)

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