"But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in his name."
Ed, you're great at highlighting words. My turn. Look that the "even" indicates an "adding" to those who are not "even."
In one breath you say Jesus died for all sinners, and in the next, you say Jesus died only for the church. Well, the church didn't even exist when Jesus died. Jever never said he died for the church. He said he came to save that which was lost already. There was no such thing as the "Church of Christ." Heck, even the first person to enter Heaven as a result of his faith in Christ was a thief on a cross, and I doubt he probably never went once to a synagogue in his life.
Acts 20:28 was written by Paul or Luke, told by Paul or Luke. That verse isn't even Jesus' words. Jesus never said he died for the church alone. In fact it this verse is Paul or Luke addressing leadership of a particular flock (group) of believers. If the whole of believers called themselves the Church of God, then it doesn't make sense why Paul or Luke would address shepherds and not apostles since the real definition for someone in a shepherding office of groups of entire churches are in fact called apostles and not shepherds! But we know this letter isn't addressed to the Apostles because the writer is writing for those who haven't seen what the apostles have seen, otherwise he wouldn't need to write this letter! So instead this verse proves that the letter is written to shepherds of a PARTICULAR flock of certain believers - a flock that Jesus had too died for as the verse continues on to say that his reasons for dying included them.
"Those who are not members of the church of Christ
remain sinners and are not children of God."
I wish to see an exact scripture that says that only members of the Church of Christ are saved.
"There is no Biblical basis for this statement."
There is: John 3:18. The "name" in Jewish idiomology means "to encompass all that a person is, their identity, their very being, and what they have done, what they are doing now, and what they will be doing in the future." Look it up sometime.
Put that in the verse, and you get nearly exactly what I wrote above.
"You are right my friend. Redemption is found only IN Jesus Christ - that is, INSIDE his body, the church of Christ."
No, redemption is found only in Jesus Christ, not a body of believers. I am not saved by being a member of someone's church. I am saved by what Jesus Christ did for me.
"Acts 19:23 does not say that the group was called "the Way." Let's see what the verse says: "At about that time, there was great commotion about the Way." "
Hey Ed, this was NOT a dispute about HOW to be saved, but rather a dispute about these group of believers vs. society. Society was questioning them - not other members in the church. Obviously since it is a dispute about the group, the Way is the name associated with them (early archeological documents prove that there was no official name for the Christians other than "The Way" until many years after Christ's death). In fact this is so much the case that there is now a church group that calls itself "The Way" just like the "Church of Christ" calls itself off of a possible name found in scripture. And names are just that Ed: descriptions of what they are about. "The Way" was most certainly about the way of salvation, just like the Church of Christ is most certainly a church about Jesus Christ.
I pray you get better at reading scripture for what it really says - and to find out what it really says.
Ed, you're great at highlighting words. My turn. Look that the "even" indicates an "adding" to those who are not "even."
In one breath you say Jesus died for all sinners, and in the next, you say Jesus died only for the church. Well, the church didn't even exist when Jesus died. Jever never said he died for the church. He said he came to save that which was lost already. There was no such thing as the "Church of Christ." Heck, even the first person to enter Heaven as a result of his faith in Christ was a thief on a cross, and I doubt he probably never went once to a synagogue in his life.
Acts 20:28 was written by Paul or Luke, told by Paul or Luke. That verse isn't even Jesus' words. Jesus never said he died for the church alone. In fact it this verse is Paul or Luke addressing leadership of a particular flock (group) of believers. If the whole of believers called themselves the Church of God, then it doesn't make sense why Paul or Luke would address shepherds and not apostles since the real definition for someone in a shepherding office of groups of entire churches are in fact called apostles and not shepherds! But we know this letter isn't addressed to the Apostles because the writer is writing for those who haven't seen what the apostles have seen, otherwise he wouldn't need to write this letter! So instead this verse proves that the letter is written to shepherds of a PARTICULAR flock of certain believers - a flock that Jesus had too died for as the verse continues on to say that his reasons for dying included them.
"Those who are not members of the church of Christ
remain sinners and are not children of God."
I wish to see an exact scripture that says that only members of the Church of Christ are saved.
The only classes of people as far as salvation is concerned are those who have recieved and accepted what Jesus already did for them, and those that have not recieved his atoning work for their lives.
"There is no Biblical basis for this statement."
There is: John 3:18. The "name" in Jewish idiomology means "to encompass all that a person is, their identity, their very being, and what they have done, what they are doing now, and what they will be doing in the future." Look it up sometime.
Put that in the verse, and you get nearly exactly what I wrote above.
"You are right my friend. Redemption is found only IN Jesus Christ - that is, INSIDE his body, the church of Christ."
No, redemption is found only in Jesus Christ, not a body of believers. I am not saved by being a member of someone's church. I am saved by what Jesus Christ did for me.
"Acts 19:23 does not say that the group was called "the Way." Let's see what the verse says: "At about that time, there was great commotion about the Way." "
Hey Ed, this was NOT a dispute about HOW to be saved, but rather a dispute about these group of believers vs. society. Society was questioning them - not other members in the church. Obviously since it is a dispute about the group, the Way is the name associated with them (early archeological documents prove that there was no official name for the Christians other than "The Way" until many years after Christ's death). In fact this is so much the case that there is now a church group that calls itself "The Way" just like the "Church of Christ" calls itself off of a possible name found in scripture. And names are just that Ed: descriptions of what they are about. "The Way" was most certainly about the way of salvation, just like the Church of Christ is most certainly a church about Jesus Christ.
I pray you get better at reading scripture for what it really says - and to find out what it really says.
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