Testing 1..2....7 What is the Nicene Creed

The Nicene Creed is basically the same as the Apostle's Creed. We use the Creed here as a basic guideline for the Christian-only Forums because it states out the fundamentals of traditional evangelical Christian doctrine in a nice all-inclusive manner.

To Aeon:

Constantine was not the author nor the cause of the Nicene Creed. It was the product of a council of Early Church Fathers, in response to the various heresies that were evolving from Christian teachings.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

The Nicene Creed is the only truly "ecunmenical" creed, in that it is the only one accepted (albeit in different forms) by both the Eastern and Western branches of the Church. The Apostles' Creed is only recognized in the West.

The controversy surrounding the Nicene Creed surrounds the phrase filioque, which the West added without the consent of the East. It speaks of the Holy Spirit as proceeding "From the Father and the Son," the so-called "double procession."

The Eastern Church retains the original language, which said only "proceeds from the Father," or "single procession." East and West have, over the centuries, made a major doctrinal issue of this but it remains essentially a political dispute. The East does not so much object to "double procession" as it does to the phrase "and the Son" being arbitrarily added by the West without the approval of an Ecumenical Council.

The "nicene creed" is based on Greek and Roman mythology.
Take a look at a Greek Orthodox Bible The Greco/Latin "Iesus" before it became the english "Jesus" is worshiped as a Greek god healer "Iasus"
Think it's just a coincidence? The letter "j" branched off from the Latin "i" in the early 16th century. "Iasus" "Iesus" "Jesus"

Almost everything was GREEK! and history will make your head spin because it's ugly.

Originally posted by wannabe
The "nicene creed" is based on Greek and Roman mythology.
Take a look at a Greek Orthodox Bible The Greco/Latin "Iesus" before it became the english "Jesus" is worshiped as a Greek god healer "Iasus"
Think it's just a coincidence? The letter "j" branched off from the Latin "i" in the early 16th century. "Iasus" "Iesus" "Jesus"

Almost everything was GREEK! and history will make your head spin because it's ugly.

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"The "nicene creed" is based on Greek and Roman mythology." This is false! Post some evidence and I don't mean some half baked quotes from C.J. Koster's piece of garbage, "Get Outta Here My Sheeple" where most of your so-called history came from on the other thread.

"Take a look at a Greek Orthodox Bible The Greco/Latin "Iesus" before it became the english "Jesus" is worshiped as a Greek god healer "Iasus"" I proved this to be a lie from the Liddell-Scott lexicon also on the other thread

" Think it's just a coincidence? The letter "j" branched off from the Latin "i" in the early 16th century. "Iasus" "Iesus" "Jesus"[/i]" Can you say, lie, lie, lie? 

Wannabe,

And anyone else interested in the so-called truth in Koster’s book, from which Wannabe is quoting. See quote immediately below.

"Where did Iesous and Iesus come from? In Bux and Schone, Worterbuch der Antike, under "Jesus", we read, "JESUS: really named Jehoshua. Iesous (Greek), Iesus (Latin) is adapted from the Greek,, possibly from the name of a Greek healing goddess Ieso (Iaso).""

Here is the URL to access this book but you will have to type in the http:/www. every time I try to post with a full URL in my post my PC locks up.

http:/www.iahusha.com/ST-RP/glory.htm#JESUS

A partial quote from a very lengthy, approximately 21 page, critique of Koster’s book. Anyone who is seeking truth will not find it in Koster’s anti-Christian nonsense. Again here is the URL,

icgatlanta.org/sn2.htm

1. CONCERNING KOSTER’S VIEWS ON THE GREEK AND THE HEBREW LANGUAGES:

He Writes, "By now the reader would have noticed that we do not accept the Greek names or words Iesous (Jesus) and Christos (Christ), and might ask: But don’t you accept the Greek language as being the original inspired language of the ‘New Testament’? Our reply to that is as follows: we firmly believe and accept the entire message contained in the Greek text of the Messianic Scriptures (‘New Testament’), since it is the only complete reliable record we presently have of the time Messiah walked this earth and the period immediately following it, the time of the apostles. We firmly believe that the Messianic Scriptures were inspired in Hebrew, at least most of them, but these documents no longer exist. The Greek text can only be a translation of the original Hebrew Messianic Scriptures. Many serious scholars have especially lately, taken a stand against the popular belief that the ‘New Testament was inspired in the Greek language’ (Koster, pp.v-vi).

Koster goes to great lengths to denigrate the Greek language. He says that it is "riddled with the names of Greek deities, used as ordinary Greek nouns or verbs" (p.vi). A portion of the list of words, and their derivations, he gives to prove his point is as follows:

"Aer (air); Adikos (unrighteous); Anatole (east, rising); Angelos (angel, messenger); Charis (grace, favour . . .); Chronos (years old, time . . .);. . . Ge (soil, earth . . .); . . . Phobos (fear, alarm, fright, be afraid); . . . Zelos (zeal . . .) . . ." (Koster, p. vi).

Note that many of these tainted words have found their way into the English language. Must we clean up our own language, to be consistent with Mr. Koster’s argument? Should we learn another language; the Hebrew language, perhaps? On the same page as the above quotations are made, Koster states the following:

"The only language in the world that was protected (by Yahuweh [Koster’s rendering]) from incorporating the names of deities into its language, was Hebrew (Exod.23:13), That is why it is called Leshon ha-Qodesh (the Set-Apart Tongue) by the Hebrews! The Set-apart Spirit, inspiring all Scripture, would most certainly not have transgressed the Law of Yahuweh by ‘inspiring’ the Messianic Scriptures in a language riddled with the names of Greek deities and freely using the names of these deities in the text, no way!"

Notice that Exodus 23:13, which we discussed in the last section, is used as a proof-text to justify the assertions made about the Greek language. Koster is asserting that not only is it wrong to utter the names of pagan gods, but it also would be wrong to use such a defiled language (with words associated with the names of pagan gods) in the writing of the scriptures.

If that is true, then the writers of the Old Testament (and of the New Testament) made a great error. They wrote the names of pagan gods into the text of the Bible. Not only that, but when Koster says the "only language in the world protected . . . from incorporating the names of deities into its language, was Hebrew," he is clearly mistaken-- that is if, for the sake of argument, we were to accept his conclusions as correct in the first place. Consider the following names of pagan gods, and words related to them {with references}, from the Hebrew text of the Old Testament (using Strong’s Concordance, and numbers):"

Thanks for the rebuttlal, OldShepherd. But I learned a long time ago to ignore such cultic lunacy.

Originally posted by Patmosman_sga
Thanks for the rebuttlal, OldShepherd. But I learned a long time ago to ignore such cultic lunacy.

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I tend to agree with you but I have motives other than simply pointing out the cultic lunacy of WB and his ilk.

o ouioV met emou ton arton ephren ep eme thn pternan autou

And also if my posts helps keep someone from falling into their satanic snare, thats alright too. 


 

Originally posted by Aeon  
Vow,

Um, constantine did Have a lot to do with it. He is the one that held the council. And summoned all the Bishops. "

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Aeon,

You are correct as far as you go. But the usual objection to Constantine, the Nicaean council, and the Trinity goes something like this.

"Constantine was a pagan sun worshipper who convened and presided at the Nicaean council. He used his power as emperor to force the council to adopt the Trinity and banished all the bishops who refused to sign his new trinity decree. Most of the bishops there did not agree with the new ruling but were afraid to speak out. etc., etc., etc."

He did banish all the bishops who in the end refused to sign the council pronouncement, all both of them, out of 318 attendees, Arius and one other. The usual story tries to imply that many, many more refused to sign.

But these allegations of paganism are nonsense on their face. Constantine ended the persecution of the christian church. Until that time Christians were being tortured and killed, in arenas, for refusing to worship Caesar. Most of those present at Nicaea were victims of that very persecution. It is absurd to say that these bishops who bore their own scars, who watched family members be burned alive, and ripped by wild animals rather than worship any other than the one, true, living God, said nothing, did nothing, but willingly, silently, stood by and allowed anyone, emperor, priest, etc. to paganize the true faith. That defies logic. That defies reason.

But don't take my word for it click the link to the Catholic Encyclopedia, above. Read the documented articles in Encyclopedia Americana and Britannica.

The council did not not convene to discuss the Trinity but the nature of Jesus, the Son. Arius was teaching that Jesus was a created being who was not of the same substance as the Father. The Trinity was never discussed.

Another thing about Constantine he was not a Trinitarian! The orthodoxy of the eastern church was Arianism for 40 years after Constantine's death.

I don't understand this. I thought this was a discussion board. Someone posts a topic for discussion and those who are interested in that topic, post responses. But it seems so many times when I join in a topic with well researched and documented posts, concerning the topic, often refuting false, undocumented information, the original poster heads for the hills and will not respond to the issues. That is not discussion, that is about a half step above graffitti. If you can't or won't defend your posts then you have no business posting here.

***Puts soap box away*** 

Hey Shep, keep up the good work!

AV oops! ...FM

I would say that the testimony of the early church fathers yields weight to the validity of a Triune God. A real eye opener

God bless

I wonder what happened to OldShepherd? Please don't give up easily, I was listening very intently. Perhaps someone was sensitive to the tone of your earlier post. I'll take a dose if it will lead me to more truth or understanding of God's Word or steer me away from heresy. Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by raphe
I wonder what happened to OldShepherd? Please don't give up easily, I was listening very intently. Perhaps someone was sensitive to the tone of your earlier post. I'll take a dose if it will lead me to more truth or understanding of God's Word or steer me away from heresy. Thanks for posting.

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Wonder no longer. Elvis has not left the building. I have retruned from a much deserved vacation. And am rarin' to go. But the original poster on this thread doesn't seem to want to defend his assertions.

Originally posted by Future Man
I would say that the testimony of the early church fathers yields weight to the validity of a Triune God. A real eye opener.

God bless

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Thank you as always for your AV support. I'll be looking into another thread or two.

לקור אזר ידה

I sent you an email today. May not get it for a while though

God bless