Reformed Evangelism: Special Case

Originally posted by humblejoe
Disclaimer: I am writing this for advice from Reformed Christians. I am not writing this to bash Reformed evangelism. I would appreciate it if my fellow Christians would not turn this thread into a flame war. I am also asking the mods to monitor this thread to prevent this. Thanks

I need to ask a question about a special case in Reformed evangelism that I've been having a problem with. What do you do if someone thinks she can't be saved because for some reason she doesn't believe she is among the Elect? I appreciate any advice you can give me.

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joe, understand that it is God who will increase her faith.  It is not, nor has it ever been, our ability to convince someone that they are among the elect.  One thing you need to do is to, not in a malicious way, determine if her obstinancy to label herself as an elected child of God is an effort to manipulate for attention or if it is due to an ignorance of what it means to be God's elect.

The truth is, believing that God saves us from such peril without our having to do anything is a difficult concept for most Christians.  Most have grown up under a different system of teaching.  Most believe, however they choose to word it, that they have to earn their salvation by saying a prayer, or being baptized, or something else.  It's difficult for humans to understand the concept of someone offering love unless it's in some type of transaction, i.e., I'll forgive you if you come and repent.  The truth is, we could only repent after God served His righteous judgment upon Jesus and then had mercy on us.

Try and remember what you felt like when you were first told of the beliefs of the reformed doctrine.  I personally was indignant.  Did I change my mind?  No.  God has an amazing ability to enlighten people and that's what He did with me.  The only thing you can do is try and live out what you are teaching her, and pray that God will enlighten her to the truth.

I hope this helps,

Don

I have run into this situation, and find it very sad. It's really my biggest gripe about calvinism, because it leaves some people out in the cold.

Remeber a few months ago, the guy here on this forum who said he wanted to be saved in the worst way, and had begged God to chose him, but God never answered, so he grew to hate God because he was not among the elect?

And I ran into a woman who seriously grieved her sin, but had been told that God will not save everyone, only the Elect, and that she was probably not among the elect because she had sinned greatly in the past. She was beside herself, wanting to belong to God, but believing that He could not love her because she was not Elected.

Nothing we could say to either person would change their belief that God had created them to doom them to hell, or that they were not among the Elect.

If I could change one belief in this world, it would be the belief that God only allows some people to come to Him in faith and be saved, that the door is closed to all others.

Only our Creator has the ability to "lift the veil" so you can "see" because He knows whether or not your heart is right. Do you know why the ten commandments was written in stone?

Because our Creator knew as "humans" we would try to "alter" almost everything we got our hands on but we COULD NOT alter what HE has written in stone.

This is my first time posting in this section, it's nice to see a fellow Calvinist. I dont' know about where you all come from, but here they're hard to find.

In regards to your question...the fact that your friend understands that there is an "elect" shows that she is "digging in". I had a problem understanding how I could be part of God's elect, being that I am chief among sinners. But if you dig into the doctrines of grace with her, you might be able to explain that is her depraved nature not allowing her own possibility for salvation. Take her through the Romans road...there is none righteous, no not one...there is none that seeks God. Tell her that your very conversation with her is proof that God is seeking her. She needs to trust his power of palingenesea....regeneration....if she responds to the scriptures, the doctrines of grace, it is evidence that God is working His regenerative power in her heart.
Tell her she is right, she can't act righteously, nor will she ever be able to. Without the full armour of God, she has no defense from sin, she is a typical depraved human being. But even though she sins, God will hear her pleas and is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse her of all unrighteousness.
Even though she still is in sin, she can still be justified...
As Luther said...we are sinners, yet justified....all at the same time.

Originally posted by humblejoe
Thanks Reformationist. But what if the person claims she cannot act righteously because she believes she is not among the Elect? What would I say regarding her continuance in sin?

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I would be curious to know why she believes so strongly that she is not among the elect.  No one knows who has been elected by God.  That's why we are commanded to preach the gospel to everyone.  There are tangible evidences in our lives that will give us confidence that God has chosen us to be His children.  Our true desire to be conformed to the image of His Son shows a willingness to submit to His sovereign rule even if our ingrained sinfulness is still acting contrary to His commands.  I don't say this as an excuse for continuing in a life of disobedience.  Rather, I say this as a reassurance that God will not lose anyone He intends to bring to a knowledge of Himself.  You should implore your friend to repent, that is stop living a life of disobedience and start putting on the righteousness that God has given us (2 Pet 1:3).  If she is concerned she should strive to make her calling and election sure (2 Pet 1:10).  Try reading 2 Peter with her.  It's a wonderful book full of wisdom on this.

As a side note here, I urge everyone who responds to do so with the intent of helping humblejoe minister to his friend in a time of need and not utilize this opportunity to express "gripes" about specific doctrinal issues.

God bless.

I wasn't griping about a doctrinal issue, I was expressing dismay at this teaching, since it is a roadblock to faith for many, many people. I wish you had read my entire post, and not just glom onto the word "gripe." I went on to say that I, too, experienced this problem, and was never able to convince the person that what her former pastor told her was wrong. If a person has bought into this belief, it is very difficult to persuade them otherwise.

The woman I knew that bought into this belief beieved it because that is the way it was preached to her throughout her growing up years. Christ only died for the Elect, and those who persist in sin cannot be among the Elect, therefore, since she had been living with a man for x number of years, she could not be saved. Only those who can break away from sin can be Elected, according to the way it was preached to her. Nothing that I or anyone else said to her made any difference. She put too much emphasis on the words "predestined" and "elect" because that is what she had been taught. She was certain that she had not been predestined by God and would be sent to hell no matter what she did.

My advise is: If a doctrine or teaching is preventing someone from being saved by their understanding of that teaching, then send them to someone else. Sometimes we are not the ones that God called to speak to a person.
Blessings

Originally posted by lambslove
I wasn't griping about a doctrinal issue, I was expressing dismay at this teaching, since it is a roadblock to faith for many, many people.

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Really?  Your second sentence in your first paragraph starts, "It's really my biggest gripe about calvinism."  I said what I said because the very first statement in this whole thread is, "I am writing this for advice from Reformed Christians."  I'm sure joe appreciates any insight someone of your understanding can offer even though you aren't a reformed Christian, but, for the record, I did read your entire post.  Truth is, you didn't offer any advice on how to deal with the issue.  You said, "I've had this problem too" and "there was this guy who on this board a few month ago who had this problem" and "nothing we can say will change their beliefs" and "if I could change one belief in the world it would be Calvinistic predestination."  Where's the advice?  As I said, you are an extremely insightful individual.  However, when I urged not to engage in comments on the validity of the reformed doctrine it wasn't an attack.  It was a desire for joe to receive the advice he asked for in his post.

God bless.