Why is Fundamental Christians so down on Homosexuality?

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savedandhappy1

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Yet its the intolerant bigots who keep the threads going, once started...
So what am I when I tell someone that murder is a sin? What was I when I told my son it was wrong to have sex before he married? What am I when I tell someone it is wrong to steal?

Why are we bigots for telling someone that homosexuality is a sin, but yet it's ok to mention any of the other sins in the Bible?

Why is it wrong to say I am a sinner, and you are a sinner, but Christ died for us and we are forgiven if we will just confess our sins and repent?

No we are labeled bigots and told we are haters, just like the Lord told us would happen. Well I guess I'm a bigot and a hater then because I will not stop telling people how much Jesus Loves, and if they will just confess their sins and ask for forgiveness He will save them and write their name in the book of life.

I will continue to tell them that there is nothing that they have done that the Lord will not forgive them for if they will just ask.

Well since we are now way past simple discussions, and since none of you have shown scriptures to go along with your beliefs I will now step out of this. I will not becalled names by someone who can't even support his thoughts with scriptures, because he is writing the Bible to fit how he wants God to be.

Romans 1:25
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

It was the greatest honour God did to man that he made man in his own image, but it is the greatest dishonour man has done to God that he has made God in the image of man. This is called (v.25) changing the truth of God into a lie.

I will pray for you all, as I hope and pray that you will continue to seek the truth according to our Lord.

P.S. hithesh, the word in the KJV, NIV, and Greek is affection, and as I said in the post that was skipped over (#433), affection doesn't have to mean sex. I can have affections for someone without having sex, and so the scriptures I quoted from Romans 1 are for today as they were for times past. We call it the living Word for a reason.
 
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GenemZ

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This is what I was trying to get at, they had no means of knowing what we know today. They see " a curved horizon in the sky", and assume it's a dome,
You can see a curved horizon in the sky? :confused: Wha?

You can not see a curved horizon in the sky at ground level. I really think you need to take a walk outside a little more often..... You look into the sky and (from ground level) it appears to have no end. I really think you are not thinking this through.



and then they had to guess at where the water comes from when it's raining, and instead of knowing what we know today, that rain is formed from the water below, they assumed that a vat of water had to exist above "the dome" that produced the rain.
Genesis 1& 2 were written after what was written about was gone. What we see there is not the way things are today. Thorns and thistles did not exist in that world. Moses was shown the past by means of the Holy Spirit.




lol, I'm taking too much out of the text, than can actually be taken out of it!!?? Have you visited a YEC website recently?
No...... YEC's and me do not get along too well. I see them as missing many things in the details that allude them.


I'm adding nothing to the text, I'm just placing myself in the time of the Writers of the bible, who would did not have knowledge of things future (aside from a few prophecies of course). Just as someone of old who assumed the sun was some kind of fire, burning fuel, because he at his time had no knowledge of nucleur energy.
Nuclear fusion is a form of fire... An atomic explosion is referred to as a "fireball."

It was one of my teachers who asked us why Genesis writes of water above the dome, and the separation of the water above from below, and none of has had to really think about this, because we all knew the most rational explanation, and that's the one that I just presented here.
:scratch: One class I am glad I missed.



Yes, they thought there was an "ocean"/a large mass of water above the sky.
We do not know how massive it was... That is conjecture.
Genesis 1: 6 -8 niv
"And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day."
You can tell how massive that water was above?

Yes, the form that they saw it in, was sinful.
Homosexuality was universally accepted in that time. Why should they suddenly develop a sense of repulsion? The reason they needed to be told not to do it, and even tag on the death penalty, was because it was seen as a norm which was acceptable in many cultures.

Just as how, these writers saw pigs eating their own feces, and became disgusted by this, that they wrote god finds eating pigs deplorable. They saw homosexuality as a disgusting sexual act, and nothing more, just as they saw men having long hair as unnatural, and ungodly.
They did? You know this for a fact?

Does your time machine use Energizer? Or, Duracell?
:doh:

There are many things, that we would find "immoral" such as slavery, that the bible for the most part advocated. Now, we would find all forms of slavery "immoral", even if it adhered to the standards the bible advocated.
Slavery still exists in the world today. Where it exists, they obviously do not see it as immoral.

http://www.antislavery.org/breakingthesilence/main/09/index.shtml



The bible never takes the liberty of openly condeming slavery, and this allows figures such as Jefferson Davis, to say:

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts.", and you cannot from a Biblical based opposition to this.
Revelation does say that slavery will exist at the time of Christ's return. It does exist today. But, not in our culture.
Revelation 13:16 niv
He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead."
Now, how does a society, move from this, to where we are now, in believing all forms of "slavery" are immoral?
Likewise! Not all cultures see homosexuality as being immoral. Yet, most modern cultures have been seeing homosexuality in the same manner as slavery. Immoral.

Why doesn't the bible go on ahead of us, and say slavery is "immoral", long before we did?
Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so.

1 Corinthians 7:21 niv
"Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so."
But see, homosexuality works in the reverse. Here an earlier society finds it inherently "immoral", while later societies find many homosexual relationships to be "moral".
You have it backwards. The term "Greek" was used to mean homosexual. :doh:



The writers of the bible did not foresee two men in a monogamous, loving and committed relationship, going to church on sundays, tending to the weak, and pretty much living as high a moral standard as a good christian heterosexual couple.
You bet they did not see that. It took Satan about 2000 years to get that sort of charade in motion.

Today we don't view homosexuality by the sexual act, the sexual act is insignificant, in how we view homosexuals, while the writers of the Bible only saw or knew of the "sexual act.", they deplored the act, unaware that two men could love.
You like to make up stuff as you go along?

http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/ancient_greeks.htm

Man.... just think it is so..... and it is?
Patiently, In Christ... GeneZ
 
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intricatic

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The only grounds you have that men have sex with men and women having sex with women is bad is that the lust is based in pleasure, which is a sin. Do you not lust after your spouse? (In a straight relationship?) Is this not a sin as well?
Who's hating people in this discussion? I've made no claims towards specific people, but many have on this thread. I'm discussing the morality of a mode of relationship, nothing more, nothing less.

Lust is seeking after that which can't be had, or something one doesn't have. If I'm married, should I not seek after my wife?
 
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Ave Maria

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I have no idea why. One thing I don't like about the Fundamentalist view on homosexuality is they can't even tolerate homosexuals. Homosexuals have a right to exist just as much as heterosexuals do. The same goes for bisexuals. They have just as much right to exist as heterosexuals do. Unfortunately, some Fundamentalist churches think that homosexuals and bisexuals just need to change. Well, change isn't possible for most homosexuals and bisexuals. And no, homosexuals and bisexuals do not choose their orientation!
 
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HeavenzAngel

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I have read that homosexuality was so vilified in the distant past because there was a need for many children, many died, less longer of life spans, children helped on the farm. Who knows?

Homosexuality was a sin in bible times, because most women couldn't take care of themselves, so if a woman was gay she was in deep trouble, and having kids was very very important. Now a days people have alot of rights and the world is overpopulated so being gay isn't a bad thing, it keeps the population at control.
 
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cubanito

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Let us suppose that homosexual activity is not sinful, and that the descriptions of it in the NT are culturally conditioned. Very well then, why can this not also be true of lying, stealing, murder, and so on?

If you cite only 2 commandments, then I can say to you that I will commit adultery and lie to my wife because I am protecting her feelings (it has been said it's OK and good to lie about extramarital affairs). I am to love myself in the same way as I love my neighbor, so if my neighbor has something extra or dosen't need, well then, it is commanded I should help myself to his excess in the name of love. As to murder, well if I believe any biology text, I know human life begins at conception. So, in the name of protecting those babies, I should of course bomb abortion clinics (destroy property) and maybe murder a few abortionists also. And of course any pro-choice politico has to die too...

Once we start rationalizing past the clear signposts , there is no end to the madness.

Fundi/RC Christians do NOT generally bomb abortion clinics (those few instances were mostly the acts of a self-professed atheist). Even though we believe those are murdering babies. We do not, and strenously condemn any who advocate violence, because we believe in external Authority. That is, we have "DO NOT ENTER" signposts along some of the roads our reasoning might go to.

When you renounce Pauline authority, or any other part of the NT you do not like, and substitute your own neublous idea of what Christ might have said (within the cultural context you can also use to recast His Words) then, praytell, where are your signposts? What is the foundation of your morals? What feels right? What is popular? What the World Court in La Hague determines?

I renounce the OT's authority on me for various specific reasons:
1- Most of those were contracts made with specific peoples, like the Jews, of which I am a part of only in a "spiritual" sense, whatever that is.
2-All those contracts are done and buried. We have a new contract. If I refinance my house, and the new bank pays off my old mortgage, I now send payments to the new bank. It is senseless to send money to my old account. In fact, I can't, once a new contract (New Testament) is drawn up, the old is no more than a historical reference.
3- Jesus said that the Law (of Moses) had to be kept to the minutest detail until it was fulfilled. He fulfilled it. To deny it's passing is to deny His redemptive work.

Now I respect those, like the RC and the non-dispys, that have other systems to help guide them. I do not agree w them, but I am encouraged that though I believe their methodology is flawed, they have clear, fixed, unmovable signs that say "DO NOT ENTER".

Do you have any external authority?

JR
 
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EnemyPartyII

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Let us suppose that homosexual activity is not sinful, and that the descriptions of it in the NT are culturally conditioned. Very well then, why can this not also be true of lying, stealing, murder, and so on?

Lying, stealing and murder are expressly forbidden in the 10 commandments. Homosexuality is not.

Lying stealing and murder are intrinsically harmful to others, whereas homosexuality, between two consenting partners, is not.

How's that?
 
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LockeTheMagna

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intricatic said:
Who's hating people in this discussion? I've made no claims towards specific people, but many have on this thread. I'm discussing the morality of a mode of relationship, nothing more, nothing less.

Lust is seeking after that which can't be had, or something one doesn't have. If I'm married, should I not seek after my wife?


You give the definition of lust as 'seeking after that which can't be had, or something one doesn't have'. You are married, and you HAVE your wife, thus laying to bed with her is not lusting after her.

Good Sir, I was not directing my post at you, or anyone else in particular. The spectrum was broad and not aimed at you. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

Locke

'Shining light into the darkness of ignorance.'


 
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savedandhappy1

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Lying, stealing and murder are expressly forbidden in the 10 commandments. Homosexuality is not.

Lying stealing and murder are intrinsically harmful to others, whereas homosexuality, between two consenting partners, is not.

How's that?
Is it not a sin to have sex before marriage? Is is not a sin to have sex with someone that is already married and not your spouse?

Then homosexuality is a sin!! There is no where in the Bible that it says if the law of the land won't let you marry you can have sex anyhow. If it does I would love to see the scriptures for that, just like I have ask to see the scriptures that back your point of view, but you have none.

You lower yourself to name calling, instead. But the Word told us that would happen as we see below.

Luke 6:22 KJV
22Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Luke 6:22 NIV
22Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

John 15:18-21
18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 21But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

The Bible tell us we will be hated and cast out because we speak the truth. It tell us that they will cast out our name as evil and insult us (which being called a bigot, to me, is an insult).

As I have shown before the scriptures in Romans 1 are not just about sex. You can have an affection for someone without having sex. The Bible is the Living Word, and covers everything for the past, present and future.
 
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hithesh

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Let us suppose that homosexual activity is not sinful, and that the descriptions of it in the NT are culturally conditioned. Very well then, why can this not also be true of lying, stealing, murder, and so on?

Now let me ask you a question are lying, stealing, and takings another's life in all situations sinful?

If someone lied to protect the jews, from the Nazis during world war II, would that mean he was sinning since he lied?

If a man, was living in New Orleans, during the time of Katrina, and his children were starving to death, and he went out looking for food, and went inside a grocery store, and took bread, to feed his children, is he sinning, since he stole?

If a cop killed someone, to protect the life of another, would he be sinning?

The difference between homosexuality, and the sins you mentioned, is that these sins in there basic form, mean that you are also breaking the second most important commandment, "love they neighbhor as thy self". Yet with all these "sins", you can find situations, where they would not be sinful, and in fact perhaps the "moral" thing to do, though you would not find a biblical verse that says, lying in certain situation is the right thing to do.
 
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127Rockledge

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Is it not a sin to have sex before marriage? Is is not a sin to have sex with someone that is already married and not your spouse?

Then homosexuality is a sin!! There is no where in the Bible that it says if the law of the land won't let you marry you can have sex anyhow.

That's a good argument, up until the point where we have to biblicaly define marriage and list it's requisites.

This has been done twice over the last two months, and neither time did any poster agree that being married by the law is held in any regard by God.
 
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savedandhappy1

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The difference between homosexuality, and the sins you mentioned, is that these sins in there basic form, mean that you are also breaking the second most important commandment, "love they neighbhor as thy self". Yet with all these "sins", you can find situations, where they would not be sinful, and in fact perhaps the "moral" thing to do, though you would not find a biblical verse that says, lying in certain situation is the right thing to do.​


Why can't I love the person and call their actions sins? I can love my neighbor and still call his lying, stealing, murder a sin. We love them because we are trying to keep them from going to hell. It wouldn't be Christlike to not warn someone of the danger ahead. You wouldn't not tell someone the bridge ahead is out because it might offend them, would you?​


The problem here is that because we call someones act a sin, we are called intolerant bigots, which is attacking the person not he issue.​


There are some who attack the person who says they are a homosexual, but the majority of Christians are just pointing out that like stealing, murder, lying, homosexuality is a sin.​


I have shown that your cultural theroy doesn't work with the scriptures in Romans 1, but yet I get no comment. So again, I point out that the Lord gave them up to first uncleaniness through lust, then He gave them up to vile AFFECTIONS. Affections doesn't just mean sex. I can and do have affections for people that I don't have sex with. Farther down in this same chapter it says that God gave them up to a Reprobate Minds to do those things which are not convenient.​


Homosexuality is called unclean, unseemly, and against nature. How can it be against nature then, but not now, just because they want to marry? Getting married doesn't change the unclean, unseemly, against nature stance. Nature hasn't changed since God created it. The World has changed, but God doesn't change. He is the same then, now and forever.​
 
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hithesh

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Why can't I love the person and call their actions sins? I can love my neighbor and still call his lying, stealing, murder a sin. We love them because we are trying to keep them from going to hell. It wouldn't be Christlike to not warn someone of the danger ahead. You wouldn't not tell someone the bridge ahead is out because it might offend them, would you?​


Of course, a person can love another person, and say that something they are doing is sinful.
But let's also keep in mind, that just because you love someone and say something is sinful, this doesn't neccesarily make that "something" sinful.

If the concern of every Christian that opposes homosexuality, is that they are concerned that the homsexual will go to hell, of course they "warn" out of love. But this is not the average Christian mind, most Christians don't oppose gay marraige, because they believe opposing gay marriage, will help "warn" homosexuals of hell-fire. If such was the case, then I might as well seek to ban marriages to anyone that's not Christian. In both "cases", the same affect occurs, the unbeliever and the homosexual walk further away from god, because of the attempts to oppress them.
The problem here is that because we call someones act a sin, we are called intolerant bigots, which is attacking the person not he issue.
And I agree, with your opinion, but I do believe when a Christian places a homosexual, to be one and the same as a Murderer, Pedophile, Rapist, they are being intolerant bigots. Because not only are you refering to them as such, you are also saying that I and others are fighting for the acceptance of Murderers, Pedophiles, and Rapist, or perhaps eventually will.

I have shown that your cultural theroy doesn't work with the scriptures in Romans 1, but yet I get no comment. So again, I point out that the Lord gave them up to first uncleaniness through lust, then He gave them up to vile AFFECTIONS. Affections doesn't just mean sex. I can and do have affections for people that I don't have sex with. Farther down in this same chapter it says that God gave them up to a Reprobate Minds to do those things which are not convenient.
Homosexuality is called unclean, unseemly, and against nature. How can it be against nature then, but not now, just because they want to marry? Getting married doesn't change the unclean, unseemly, against nature stance. Nature hasn't changed since God created it. The World has changed, but God doesn't change. He is the same then, now and forever.​
Paul was working in a cultural frame of mind, to say something is unnatural doesn't mean that it goes against nature. Paul also said that men having long hair is unnatural, when actually nature promotes long hair, it's when we cut it, that we are going against nature. Perheps, for some it might seem unatural for a person of one race, to marry another race. It's only unatural, because the culture they grew up in, ingrained in them this concept, that over time turns a cultural faux pax, into something they believe is against nature.

Paul also goes on to say that "slaves should remain slaves", and of course some believers here will try to cover this up by saying, that Paul is speaking of christians being slaves, like Christ spoke of believers to be as servants. But anyone honest with the scriputures, knows that Paul was actually refering to slaves, in the common defination we have today for "slaves". Now, why did Paul tell slaves to be slaves? Because he thought the second coming of Christ, was coming at any minute, and that there no need for slaves to fight for their freedom, because the time is too short for such things.

It's plain to see, that Paul does work in a cultural frame of mind, (and also perhaps a bit of faulty understanding of the gospel second coming). Some will say that it's limited to a few passages, such as the one I mentioned above, but the truth is, that the cultural frame of mind is all over the Bible, because none of the Biblical writers forsaw the culture of tommorow, they only knew the culture of their day, where even long hair was unatural for men to have, and short hair for woman. Paul also found it "ungodly" for woman to go to church without their hair covered, but let's see how many woman believe that today?
 
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GenemZ

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Lying, stealing and murder are expressly forbidden in the 10 commandments. Homosexuality is not.

Lying stealing and murder are intrinsically harmful to others, whereas homosexuality, between two consenting partners, is not.

How's that?

Yes, lying, stealing, and murder are mentioned. These are sins that affect individuals.

In contrast, homosexuality and other forms of sexual immorality, if not kept in check, ruins a nation.

Those who have already come under such influence can not see the connection... That's also the problem. Its a Kingdom issue. Not simply one of reason and debate as to its resolve.

The LORD has assigned ages on earth for angels to witness to. Among other things, He allows for homosexuality to run free at times. Then, the angels watch and see why it is that God condemns such a mental state that induces homosexuality. For such a mental state is revealed in debates such as these.... as the WORD of GOD comes under attack and is cleverly denied. That is very revealing..... as to the cause.

In Christ, GeneZ
 
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manchambo

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Yes, lying, stealing, and murder are mentioned. These are sins that affect individuals.

In contrast, homosexuality and other forms of sexual immorality, if not kept in check, ruins a nation.

Those who have already come under such influence can not see the connection... That's also the problem. Its a Kingdom issue. Not simply one of reason and debate as to its resolve.

The LORD has assigned ages on earth for angels to witness to. Among other things, He allows for homosexuality to run free at times. Then, the angels watch and see why it is that God condemns such a mental state that induces homosexuality. For such a mental state is revealed in debates such as these.... as the WORD of GOD comes under attack and is cleverly denied. That is very revealing..... as to the cause.

In Christ, GeneZ
I know I'm going to regret this, but I guess I'll bite: how in the world does homosexuality "ruin a nation" if "not kept in check"?

And a related question--does it really need to be kept in check? No matter what homosexuas do, I will not be attracted to men, and I expect almost all heterosexuals are bout the same.
 
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GenemZ

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Of course, a person can love another person, and say that something they are doing is sinful.
But let's also keep in mind, that just because you love someone and say something is sinful, this doesn't neccesarily make that "something" sinful.​
Love for another does not make it unsinful. When caught up in evil causes, those so involved may experience an intense love for one another. Those Muslim men who conspired to fly planes into the World Trade Center may have had a powerful bond between them. That powerful bond did not negate the reality that what they were doing was saturated in evil.

God does not see humanistic love as love. God sees his love imparted as true love manifested.
Luke 6:32-33 niv
"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that."
If the concern of every Christian that opposes homosexuality, is that they are concerned that the homsexual will go to hell, of course they "warn" out of love.
If the homosexual has believed in Christ? There is no fear of Hell. Its an attempt to show them that they are refusing to glorify Christ, and will be losers at the evaluation of believers. Christ saves sinners. Homsexuality is sin. Many a homosexual gets saved. Few find the life in Christ that Jesus came to give. Like anyone else who resents and hates the demands imposed upon them by the Word of God, they join the crowd who are enemies of the cross. Homosexuals simply have their own sect withing the crowd of wayward rebellious believers.
Philippians 3:17-19
"Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you. For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their emotions, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things."
There destiny is destruction.....
1 Corinthians 3:11-15
"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."
Legalists see the destruction mentioned in Philippians 3:19 as speaking of Hell. But, not all destruction by fire is Hell.

The Word of God sees the destruction as the burning up of all what humanistic thinking did in attempts to be good in its natural thinking outside of God's Word. There will be a loss of Eternal rewards as a result.

Yet!

If they truly believed Jesus died for their sins?

They will be saved. Saved with NOTHING to show for their salvation other than they believed Jesus died for their sins.
If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."
But this is not the average Christian mind, most Christians don't oppose gay marraige, because they believe opposing gay marriage, will help "warn" homosexuals of hell-fire. If such was the case, then I might as well seek to ban marriages to anyone that's not Christian.
The issue is that all ways of thinking and living which oppose the Word of God, will be confronted by Bible breathing believers when this way of life raises itself up as being its own authority above the Word.

In both "cases", the same affect occurs, the unbeliever and the homosexual walk further away from god, because of the attempts to oppress them.
He is already far away from God if he is still actively pursuing homosexual love. You can not push him further away. You can only motivate him to drop his pretense of having a love for God. Which was not a true love for God to begin with...
Grace and truth, GeneZ
 
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savedandhappy1

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Of course, a person can love another person, and say that something they are doing is sinful.​

But let's also keep in mind, that just because you love someone and say something is sinful, this doesn't neccesarily make that "something" sinful.​


If the concern of every Christian that opposes homosexuality, is that they are concerned that the homsexual will go to hell, of course they "warn" out of love. But this is not the average Christian mind, most Christians don't oppose gay marraige, because they believe opposing gay marriage, will help "warn" homosexuals of hell-fire. If such was the case, then I might as well seek to ban marriages to anyone that's not Christian. In both "cases", the same affect occurs, the unbeliever and the homosexual walk further away from god, because of the attempts to oppress them.​

So we are to pass a law for them to marry so we won't offend them? We are to vote for something that we believe goes against our Lord? Wouldn't that then make our actions a sin, if we are right that homosexuality is a sin?

Also you state that the average Christian isn't doing this out of love, and you base this on what? There is only one who truely knows the hearts of man, and I don't believe that job has been given to you, but correct me if I am wrong.


hithesh said:
And I agree, with your opinion, but I do believe when a Christian places a homosexual, to be one and the same as a Murderer, Pedophile, Rapist, they are being intolerant bigots. Because not only are you refering to them as such, you are also saying that I and others are fighting for the acceptance of Murderers, Pedophiles, and Rapist, or perhaps eventually will.

We put degrees on sins and make one sin worse then another, but surely you know that God doesn't look at sin the same way we do?

hithesh said:
Paul was working in a cultural frame of mind, to say something is unnatural doesn't mean that it goes against nature. Paul also said that men having long hair is unnatural, when actually nature promotes long hair, it's when we cut it, that we are going against nature. Perheps, for some it might seem unatural for a person of one race, to marry another race. It's only unatural, because the culture they grew up in, ingrained in them this concept, that over time turns a cultural faux pax, into something they believe is against nature.

Paul also goes on to say that "slaves should remain slaves", and of course some believers here will try to cover this up by saying, that Paul is speaking of christians being slaves, like Christ spoke of believers to be as servants. But anyone honest with the scriputures, knows that Paul was actually refering to slaves, in the common defination we have today for "slaves". Now, why did Paul tell slaves to be slaves? Because he thought the second coming of Christ, was coming at any minute, and that there no need for slaves to fight for their freedom, because the time is too short for such things.

It's plain to see, that Paul does work in a cultural frame of mind, (and also perhaps a bit of faulty understanding of the gospel second coming). S ome will say that it's limited to a few passages, such as the one I mentioned above, but the truth is, that the culture frame of mind is all over the Bible, because none of the Biblical writers forsaw the culture of tommorow, they only knew the culture of their day, where even long hair was unatural for men to have, and short hair for woman. Paul also found it "ungodly" for woman to go to church without their hair covered, but let's see how many woman believe that today?

Again, the Word is the inspired Word of God, and He knew and knows what the cultural changes over histroy would be.

Those scriptures also plainly say that yes it is unnatural and it goes against nature. Would you like me to post them again so that you can see this.

You keep trying to make Romans 1 just about sex, and again that isn't what the scriptures say. The Lord gave them up to vile affections, this right here shows that the inspired Word is looking at more then sex. I have affections for my son, but I don't have sex with him. The Bible plainly states how the Lord gave them up to lusts, vile affections, and things against nature. I would say that that is the same thing that He has done today.

Is there anywhere in the Bible where it says that long hair and a womans head must be covered that also says that they will not enter into the Kingdom of God if these things aren't done?

As we know the bible does say that murders, liars, those that comment sexual sins, etc. will not enter the Kingdom of God. Or is that some of the scriptures that was written because of cultural ways of the time, but do not hold true for today?
 
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HeavenzAngel

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So we are to pass a law for them to marry so we won't offend them? We are to vote for something that we believe goes against our Lord? Wouldn't that then make our actions a sin, if we are right that homosexuality is a sin?​


Also you state that the average Christian isn't doing this out of love, and you base this on what? There is only one who truely knows the hearts of man, and I don't believe that job has been given to you, but correct me if I am wrong.​





We put degrees on sins and make one sin worse then another, but surely you know that God doesn't look at sin the same way we do?​



Again, the Word is the inspired Word of God, and He knew and knows what the cultural changes over histroy would be.

Those scriptures also plainly say that yes it is unnatural and it goes against nature. Would you like me to post them again so that you can see this.

You keep trying to make Romans 1 just about sex, and again that isn't what the scriptures say. The Lord gave them up to vile affections, this right here shows that the inspired Word is looking at more then sex. I have affections for my son, but I don't have sex with him. The Bible plainly states how the Lord gave them up to lusts, vile affections, and things against nature. I would say that that is the same thing that He has done today.

Is there anywhere in the Bible where it says that long hair and a womans head must be covered that also says that they will not enter into the Kingdom of God if these things aren't done?

As we know the bible does say that murders, liars, those that comment sexual sins, etc. will not enter the Kingdom of God. Or is that some of the scriptures that was written because of cultural ways of the time, but do not hold true for today?


no, they aren't doing it out of love, they are doing it because they think they are right and don't agree with anyone who might say they are wrong.
 
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