Should Christians Vote Yes on 1?

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Joykins

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How come all the amendments I get to vote on are things like county council members salaries and zoning restrictions?

Voting against gay marriage isn't going to stop gay sex, it'll just make sure all the gay couples having sex are having it outside of marriage.
 
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TracerBullet

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Dear Shredhead320


When GOD'S WORD says:


" "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. ... Do not defile yourselves by any of these things" (Leviticus 18:22, 24).


"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination..." (Leviticus 20:13).


"But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you. They (shellfish) shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:10-12)
So should we vote for legislation preventing any and all employees of Red Lobster restaurants from getting married :scratch:
 
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paleodoxy

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Tracer,

Those dietary restrictions were provisional, and only for the nation of Israel until the time of Christ, Who, in His own Body, tore down the wall of separation dividing Jew and Gentile (see Ephesians). Acts, I Corinthians and Galatians spell this all out in great detail.

However, the N.T. explicitly continues to uphold those laws that were a moral reflection of God's eternal character, including the prohibition on homosexuality (e.g., Rom.1:24-27; I Cor.6:9).
 
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TracerBullet

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Tracer,

Those dietary restrictions were provisional, and only for the nation of Israel until the time of Christ, Who, in His own Body, tore down the wall of separation dividing Jew and Gentile (see Ephesians). Acts, I Corinthians and Galatians spell this all out in great detail.

However, the N.T. explicitly continues to uphold those laws that were a moral reflection of God's eternal character, including the prohibition on homosexuality (e.g., Rom.1:24-27; I Cor.6:9).
You might note that the laws Wonderwaleye is using to justify prejudice and discrimination are right next to the laws you call “provisional” and “only for the state of Israel”
 
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lilymarie

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How come all the amendments I get to vote on are things like county council members salaries and zoning restrictions?

Voting against gay marriage isn't going to stop gay sex, it'll just make sure all the gay couples having sex are having it outside of marriage.

This is not a question of whos having sex or not. All kinds of people are having unusual sex, whether kinky or whatever.

It's a question of protecting what marriage is, so that all these others who want their types of "marriages" will be stopped.

There needs to be a line drawn someone in protecting marriage.

However, civil unions afford the same rights as marriage, and if say a liberal type church wants to give them a type of marriage ceremony that should be up to that specific church.

Where will equal rights stop for all of those who prefer a different sexual lifestyle than the one of the Bible?

Why not a marriage between two men and four women?

Or one woman and eight men? I mean that's there "belief" and they deserve equal rights too... right?
 
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paleodoxy

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Tracer,

Right. And since the O.T. laws cited regarding homosexuality are upheld by the N.T. as well, it is perfectly valid for Christians to cite the old laws, and therefore not a contradiction. The N.T. does, however, explicitly abrogate the dietary laws.

I would also take issue with your definition of "prejudice" and "discrimination." Racism would be a wonderful example of sinful prejudice and discrimination. But homosexuality is an evil lifestyle, not an ethnic orientation, and I will take God's Word over yours.

Everyone would agree that we should always discriminate in the sense of discerning or judging between good and evil. So discrimination really isn't the issue. The question is whose morality is the right one, and what standard of discrimination we are going to use.

Christians are constantly discriminated against by those who claim to be opposed to discrimination and who avow "tolerance." People like yourself know full well that Christianity and secular humanism can never co-exist in harmony, and that one side or another is ultimately going to prevail in the world. So let's not pretend that your version of "tolerance" actually exists.
 
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tiredwalker

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Homosexuals are well aware of how Christians view their lifestyle; so we have nothing to say about the issue. The only reason we are voting about this is because of the Christian Right.

Jesus would not spend time blasting homosexuals and their lifestyles and their "sins." Nor would he spend time making sure that they can't make their love official and receive the same tax benefits as married heterosexual couples. Nope, he'd be too busy inviting them to his parties and going to theirs. Why don't we act more like Jesus tells us and less like the Religious Right tells us. Jesus was no Biggot. Neither should we be.
 
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paladin_carvin

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This is not a question of whos having sex or not. All kinds of people are having unusual sex, whether kinky or whatever.

It's a question of protecting what marriage is, so that all these others who want their types of "marriages" will be stopped.

There needs to be a line drawn someone in protecting marriage.

However, civil unions afford the same rights as marriage, and if say a liberal type church wants to give them a type of marriage ceremony that should be up to that specific church.

Where will equal rights stop for all of those who prefer a different sexual lifestyle than the one of the Bible?

Why not a marriage between two men and four women?

Or one woman and eight men? I mean that's there "belief" and they deserve equal rights too... right?

You bring up a good point. What would be wrong with a man having three wives, or two men and two women. Well... honestly, nothing. Society wouldn't collapse, marriage would not change to those who don't agree with it. The fact is it wouldn't matter. Anyone who says society will be weaken by it is just using fear tactics for votes.
 
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HeavenzAngel

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Homosexuals are well aware of how Christians view their lifestyle; so we have nothing to say about the issue. The only reason we are voting about this is because of the Christian Right.

Jesus would not spend time blasting homosexuals and their lifestyles and their "sins." Nor would he spend time making sure that they can't make their love official and receive the same tax benefits as married heterosexual couples. Nope, he'd be too busy inviting them to his parties and going to theirs. Why don't we act more like Jesus tells us and less like the Religious Right tells us. Jesus was no Biggot. Neither should we be.

true, but you can't make a christian see that.

Some christians are hypocrites when it comes to gays, here is a converstation, I had last night.

unknown: I lied to you I'm really 18
Me: ooooh, and you dare condem me for being gay?
unknown: Being gay is worse then lying
Me: but you think lying, getting high and lusting over women is not a sin?
Unknown: being gay is the unforgiveable sin, n marriage is between man and a woman, plus GOD can forgive me easier for lying and stuff, for I am what I am, and the bibles says being gay is a sin.
Woman: ummmmmmmm ok
unknown: I am a sinner, I sin everyday its not my problem.
me: Well, you just admit to lying to me about your age, and I also know you lied about some other things, plus you called me an ugly monster, and you got a inappropriate contento addiction. Can you control your lying?
unknown: can you control your gayness?
unknown: Jesus died for my sins
me: but Jesus said to go and sin no more
unknown: I am what I am, I can live the way I want because Jesus died for my sins, but being gay is an unforgiveable sin, unlike lying, doing drugs and hurting people. and I sin everyday, plus marriage is between man and wife.
me: bye

It is a friend i kinda of had. this is why i dont like most christians.
 
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imind

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So we should let them impose there would view on us?
this is such a tired, old, and intellectually dishonest arguement.

it is the difference between us not allowing them to act in a way that affects only them, and them wanting to act in a way that affects only them.

its not even comparable.
 
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Harlan Norris

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Does any man or woman here intend to marry another of the same sex?Homosexuality is not our sin is it?We are not gay.Is it possible though,that we are guilty of other sin?Looking through CF,I see a lot of fornication.Christian men and women living together,unmarried.And frankly unconcerned...What is the path to heaven?Is it judging the sins of others,or,is it judging our own sin,and repenting of it.Voting will never eliminate homosexuality.Never.However it is proof that we have judged,and having done so we will also be judged by the same meter...Looking to the state to rectify a spiritual problem is a mechanical fix for a spiritual problem.It will not work...How does a Christian treat his enemy?Does he persecute him?Is that what we do according to scripture?If I was terribly concerned about homosexuality,here's what I would do.I'd go and volunteer to help those who have fallen victim to aids.Those,who are dieing are willing to listen to a witness.I would show by example that a Christian is forgiving,and loves his neighbor as himself.My patient might well repent and be saved,just like the good thief on the cross.Isn't this our goal? To bring souls to Christ.Of course, it is also possible that my patient,having been converted,would witness to other gays,converting them as well.One small act of kindness,can do more to further the gospel than a hundred acts of oppression...Just something to consider.
 
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paleodoxy

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TIRED WALKER:

Homosexuals are well aware of how Christians view their lifestyle; so we have nothing to say about the issue. The only reason we are voting about this is because of the Christian Right.

Jesus would not spend time blasting homosexuals and their lifestyles and their "sins." Nor would he spend time making sure that they can't make their love official and receive the same tax benefits as married heterosexual couples. Nope, he'd be too busy inviting them to his parties and going to theirs. Why don't we act more like Jesus tells us and less like the Religious Right tells us. Jesus was no Biggot. Neither should we be.

While I am against the homosexual lifestyle as being morally acceptable, I actually advocated something very similar to what you say here in my very first post on this thread. Jesus would have been focused on the Gospel of salvation and personal moral transformation, not on politics. And He would not have spent an inordinate amount of time focusing on one particular sin (like many Christians do today with homosexuality), but on all of them. Yet in doing so, his modus operandi would not have been to moan and groan, shout and scream, go on protest marches, etc. He would have eaten and visited with them, as he did with adulterers and harlots and heathens. He would have demonstrated His love by presenting them with an alternative: Life rather than Death.

How many of us hurl jabs and join rallies, but never take the time to be involved evangelistically or personally with homosexuals? Political activism is not the answer because it is not a political issue. It is an issue of spiritual life and death. Christians should remember that they were saved by grace (not by their own strength), and in love, bring the same life-giving message to homosexuals that Christ brought to the world.

But let us keep all of this in perspective: Jesus was not a hater for preaching repentance. He did not advocate violence. He did not advocate political coercion. He advocated the Gospel of forgiveness and reconciliation. The haters were those who rejected His message, and who ultimately put Him on the cross to die.

I don't know your personal view on the issue Tiredwalker, or what faith (if any) you profess to hold, but I can essentially agree with the spirit, tenor and emphasis of your post regarding the way in which these issues should be handled.
 
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ReformedChapin

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Allowing gay marriage is not imposing thier world view on anyone. Making you marry a gay person would be.
You're wrong, Christian morals are based on an absolute standard. Anything that diviates from that is pressing another world view on Christianity.
 
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ReformedChapin

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this is such a tired, old, and intellectually dishonest arguement.

it is the difference between us not allowing them to act in a way that affects only them, and them wanting to act in a way that affects only them.

its not even comparable.
Again, just because you don't accept a good argument doesn't make it "invalid" or "dishonest." The more sinful behavior we allow the more it becomes a cultural norm.


That's the reason why morality is bad right now, the churches didn't pick up the ball when liberalism took over the schools.
 
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