Why Did the Twelve and the Disciples all Get the Revelation Before Paul?

yeshuasavedme · Nov 2, 2006

tychicum; Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
(1Co 2:7-8) Satan would have found out.

How anyone can miss this is quite beyond my comprehension.

No one sees anything unless God allows it.
Jesus slipped through crowds, unseen, walking through their midst, the angels blinded the eyes of the sodomites who wanted to rape them when they stayed with Lot, so that they searched all night, intheir blindness, for the door to the house!
Jesus shut the understanding of the Apostles for all He was telling them until after He rose from the dead. they knew, they heard, they saw...but He did not open understanding until He was "Revealed" -"to the elect".
2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain [was] full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
"We are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses"; but now we see darkly -but then we shall know as we are known.

We may have entertained angels unawares, there was an army of angelic host surrounding Elisha.
He shuts eyes and He opens eyes.
At this time, He sees us and we do not see Him. And at this time, He is "Hid in God" and the world has not seen Him and shall, at His revealing; and we who are born again are "Hid in God with Christ", also, in the One Spirit of regeneration to which we are joined in the New birth.

yeshuasavedme · Nov 2, 2006

Look at this wonderful revelation, the Apostles and disciples saw the risen glory of the LORD and were to be His eyewitnesses of Him, and Jesus said;

Jhn 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have. believed

When Jesus prayed for the disciples in John 17, He also prayed for those who would believe on Him through their word, ***but Paul confessed that he did not believe on Him because of their word***, but that He, Himself, was chosen "last of all the Apostles" to see Him by "revelation"! - Yet Paul did not get His marching orders from the LORD Jesus presonally, but from Ananais and from the Church which commissioned Him when the Holy Spirit told them to "Separate to me Paul and Barnabus for the ministry to which I have called them!"

Jhn 17:11
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are].Jhn 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.Jhn 17:20¶Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;Jhn 17:21
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Paul was convicted through Stephen's testimony and death, which Paul witnessed, but he still did not believe through the word of the Apostles or disciples -but by personal Revelation!

yeshuasavedme said:
After Paul sees with his own eyes and believes in Jesus -not from the words of any man, but was an eyewitness- then Paul learns the will of the LORD for his life's mnistry from the Jew, Ananais!
And when the time was right, Paul gets his "Marching orders" from the Church in Antioch -by revelation of the Holy Spirit!
And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?Act 9:5
And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Act 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Act 13:1¶Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid [their] hands on them, they sent [them] away.
So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

When Saul was converted, and told to go into the city and he would be told what to do [by others]; and the LORD Jesus kept him in blindness three whole days, not seeing; then when the LORD spoke to a Believer in the Church -which is the body of Christ- the man He spoke to believed teh LORD [after the LORD explained it to him] and went wholeheartedly to Saul and "laid hands on him, calling him "brother", that he might receive the enduement with power from on high.
Immediately, Saul was baptized in water.

Act 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Act 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Did you see that, and consider it -those of you in MAD doctrine?

Saul was received in fellowship in the One Church, being called "brother" -"in the faith", by ananais!

eph3Nine · Nov 3, 2006

Tychicum said:
It is most interesting but the 12 ... spent 3 1/2 years of ministry with the Lord Jesus ... and didn't even know about the cross until just a couple days before the event.

You remember the cross ... the cross which is the very foundation of our Gospel.

What were they preaching if it weren't for salvation by the blood of Jesus cross ...?

The Kingdom.

Why wasn't the cross preached BEFORE the fact ... ?

Satan would have found out.

How anyone can miss this is quite beyond my comprehension.

†

Excellent point, Tychie. God HAD A SECRET so that satan , thru the prophetic SPOKEN gospel, would have NO WAY OF KNOWING the method of his defeat.

God never revealed this to ANYONE before Christs DEATH! He kept it secret so that SATAN wouldnt know. Had satan known, he would NEVER have crucified the Lord of Glory...scripture SAYS so.

If God says He kept something SECRET from ages and generations UNTIL Paul...and tells us the REASON for it...it would behoove us to simply BELIEVE it , instead of foolishly ARGUING it.

heymikey80 · Nov 3, 2006

eph3Nine said:
Excellent point, Tychie. God HAD A SECRET so that satan , thru the prophetic SPOKEN gospel, would have NO WAY OF KNOWING the method of his defeat.

God never revealed this to ANYONE before Christs DEATH! He kept it secret so that SATAN wouldnt know. Had satan known, he would NEVER have crucified the Lord of Glory...scripture SAYS so.

If God says He kept something SECRET from ages and generations UNTIL Paul...and tells us the REASON for it...it would behoove us to simply BELIEVE it , instead of foolishly ARGUING it.

It's not so late.

From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. Mt 16:21

As they were gathering in Galilee, Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men, 23and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day." And they were greatly distressed. Mt 17:22-23

See, we are going up to Jerusalem. And the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death 19and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day. Mt 20:18-19

But when the tenants saw him, they said to themselves, 'This is the heir. Let us kill him, so that the inheritance may be ours.' And they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? Lk 20:14-15

GLJCA · Nov 3, 2006

eph3Nine said:
Excellent point, Tychie. God HAD A SECRET so that satan , thru the prophetic SPOKEN gospel, would have NO WAY OF KNOWING the method of his defeat.

God never revealed this to ANYONE before Christs DEATH! He kept it secret so that SATAN wouldnt know. Had satan known, he would NEVER have crucified the Lord of Glory...scripture SAYS so.

If God says He kept something SECRET from ages and generations UNTIL Paul...and tells us the REASON for it...it would behoove us to simply BELIEVE it , instead of foolishly ARGUING it.

It is amazing to me how you guys think. As if Satan could have stop that which God has ordained is giving Satan equal power with God.

If he would have only known that Jesus was going to die for the sins of mankind, he would have stopped it. Well old Satan must be deaf because Jesus said it several times.

Mt 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
Mt 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
Mr 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Mr 10:33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:

Satan must not have been listening, huh? Or maybe it is that Satan could not thwart that which is ordained by God whether he knows or not. Wow the so called god of this world could not thwart God's will, what a concept.

This is another case of taking one scripture and running with it.

Well gotta go. To pretty of a day to sit here at the computer. Gotta go hit that little white ball for a while.

GLJCA

yeshuasavedme · Nov 3, 2006

GLJCA said:
It is amazing to me how you guys think. As if Satan could have stop that which God has ordained is giving Satan equal power with God.

If he would have only known that Jesus was going to die for the sins of mankind, he would have stopped it. Well old Satan must be deaf because Jesus said it several times.

Mt 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
Mt 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
Mr 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Mr 10:33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:

Satan must not have been listening, huh? Or maybe it is that Satan could not thwart that which is ordained by God whether he knows or not. Wow the so called god of this world could not thwart God's will, what a concept.

This is another case of taking one scripture and running with it.

Well gotta go. To pretty of a day to sit here at the computer. Gotta go hit that little white ball for a while.

GLJCA

True.
God veils eyes that see and hear and know, but what you know you don't know until you know it.

I do think Satan knew, but I think he was in the dark about exactly how, though he knew.
He esp knew that Jesus was the "hidden in the secret place" Son of Man/Son of God prophetically spoken of in Psalm 91, who was to come and did come, for he used that passage from Psalm 91 to refer to Jesus as that One, when he tempted Jesus to throw Himself off the temple to prove the passage was true of Him.
-That all we who are born again in Him can be dwelling with Him, now, "Hid with Christ in God ", by His finished work for our redemption, gives us the joining with Christ that causes us to be able to claim the rest of that Psalm also, being "one" with Him.
Hope you have a nice day hitting that ball.

timlamb · Nov 5, 2006

yeshuasavedme said:
True.
God veils eyes that see and hear and know, but what you know you don't know until you know it.

I do think Satan knew, but I think he was in the dark about exactly how, though he knew.
He esp knew that Jesus was the "hidden in the secret place" Son of Man/Son of God prophetically spoken of in Psalm 91, who was to come and did come, for he used that passage from Psalm 91 to refer to Jesus as that One, when he tempted Jesus to throw Himself off the temple to prove the passage was true of Him.
-That all we who are born again in Him can be dwelling with Him, now, "Hid with Christ in God ", by His finished work for our redemption, gives us the joining with Christ that causes us to be able to claim the rest of that Psalm also, being "one" with Him.
Hope you have a nice day hitting that ball.

Yes, I think you understand. But why do some think the apostles should have known what God was not ready to reviel to them. Because they were in confusion until recieving the Holy Spirit they are discredited? Isn't that what happened to Paul also?

yeshuasavedme · Nov 5, 2006

timlamb said:
Yes, I think you understand. But why do some think the apostles should have known what God was not ready to reviel to them. Because they were in confusion until recieving the Holy Spirit they are discredited? Isn't that what happened to Paul also?

"Isn't that what happened to Paul also?" -Certainly! -and he was convicted after he heard Stephan's sermon and watched him die.
As to your other question -
because they have not had the "revelation", the "enlightening".

yeshuasavedme · Nov 5, 2006

yeshuasavedme said:
"Isn't that what happened to Paul also?" -Certainly! -and he was convicted after he heard Stephan's sermon and watched him die.
As to your other question -
because they have not had the "revelation", the "enlightening".

Paul understood the Old Testament from the Holy Spirit enlightening him and was a good scribe to the Gentiles. When the letters of Paul are read with a good concordance, it is evident that his teaching was expounding on the Old Testament with the enlightenment of the meaning and with the understanding of the relevance to the promised Seed of the Woman, proclaimed in Genesis 3:15.
Paul makes the meaning clear to the Gentiles who were not familiar with the "Way" shown, by pattern and shadow, "back" to the Father, in the Oracles.

jeffweeder · Nov 5, 2006

Paul understood the Old Testament from the Holy Spirit enlightening him and was a good scribe to the Gentiles. When the letters of Paul are read with a good concordance, it is evident that his teaching was expounding on the Old Testament with the enlightenment of the meaning and with the understanding of the relevance to the promised Seed of the Woman, proclaimed in Genesis 3:15.
Paul makes the meaning clear to the Gentiles who were not familiar with the "Way" shown, by pattern and shadow, "back" to the Father, in the Oracles.

Thats right, look
acts 28
17 After three days Paul[13][Lit he ] called together those who were the leading men of the Jews, and when they came together, he began saying to them, "Brethren, though I had done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers[14][Or forefathers ], yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.
18 "And when they had examined me, they were willing to release me because there was no ground for[15][Lit of death in me ] putting me to death.
19 "But when the Jews objected[16][Lit spoke against ], I was forced to appeal to Caesar, not that I had any accusation against my nation.
20 "For this reason, therefore, I requested[17][Or invited you to see me and speak with me ] to see you and to speak with you, for I am wearing this chain for the sake of the hope of Israel."
21 They said to him, "We have neither received letters from Judea concerning you, nor have any of the brethren come here and reported or spoken anything bad about you.
22 "But we desire to hear from you what your[18][Lit you think ] views are; for concerning this sect, it is known to us that it is spoken against everywhere."
23 When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.
24 Some were being persuaded by the things spoken, but others would not believe.
25 And when they did not agree with one another, they began leaving after Paul had spoken one parting word, "The Holy Spirit rightly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your fathers,
26 saying, 'GO TO THIS PEOPLE AND SAY,
"YOU[19][Lit with a hearing ] WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT[20][Lit and ] WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;
AND YOU[21][Lit seeing you will see ] WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
27 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
AND WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES;
OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
AND I WOULD HEAL THEM."'
28 "Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will also listen."
29 [When[22][Early mss do not contain this v] he had spoken these words, the Jews departed, having a great dispute among themselves.]
30 And he stayed two full years in[23][Or at his own expense ] his own rented quarters and was welcoming all who came to him,
31 preaching[24][Or proclaiming ] the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered.

This then must include the mystery-

timlamb · Nov 6, 2006

jeffweeder said:
Thats right, look
acts 28
17 After three days Paul[13][Lit he ] called together those who were the leading men of the Jews, and when they came together, he began saying to them, "Brethren, though I had done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers[14][Or forefathers ], yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.
18 "And when they had examined me, they were willing to release me because there was no ground for[15][Lit of death in me ] putting me to death.
19 "But when the Jews objected[16][Lit spoke against ], I was forced to appeal to Caesar, not that I had any accusation against my nation.
20 "For this reason, therefore, I requested[17][Or invited you to see me and speak with me ] to see you and to speak with you, for I am wearing this chain for the sake of the hope of Israel."
21 They said to him, "We have neither received letters from Judea concerning you, nor have any of the brethren come here and reported or spoken anything bad about you.
22 "But we desire to hear from you what your[18][Lit you think ] views are; for concerning this sect, it is known to us that it is spoken against everywhere."
23 When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.
24 Some were being persuaded by the things spoken, but others would not believe.
25 And when they did not agree with one another, they began leaving after Paul had spoken one parting word, "The Holy Spirit rightly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your fathers,
26 saying, 'GO TO THIS PEOPLE AND SAY,
"YOU[19][Lit with a hearing ] WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT[20][Lit and ] WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;
AND YOU[21][Lit seeing you will see ] WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
27 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
AND WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES;
OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
AND I WOULD HEAL THEM."'
28 "Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will also listen."
29 [When[22][Early mss do not contain this v] he had spoken these words, the Jews departed, having a great dispute among themselves.]
30 And he stayed two full years in[23][Or at his own expense ] his own rented quarters and was welcoming all who came to him,
31 preaching[24][Or proclaiming ] the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered.

This then must include the mystery-

"Mystery" revealed, the beautiful word of God.

That scripture sure came to life in this context, AMEN!

foundinHim · Nov 6, 2006

The secret/"mystery" = "the church of God"/body of Christ Which He is the Head of was given to Paul by God, while he was in prison in Rome...hence, these epistles, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians were written "to make all men see what is the fellowship of THE MYSTERY,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, Who created all things by Jesus Christ" (Eph.3:9)

Also, believe it or not, this is a special "dispensation" (for lack of better words)..."THE DISPENSATION OF THE GRACE OF GOD".

The dispensation of the "Acts" of the apostles is a transitional one, so that is why so many cannot understand the differences between the "King" and "kingdom" message and the body of Christ ("the church") message.

yeshuasavedme · Nov 6, 2006

foundinHim said:
The secret/"mystery" = "the church of God"/body of Christ Which He is the Head of was given to Paul by God, while he was in prison in Rome...hence, these epistles, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians were written "to make all men see what is the fellowship of THE MYSTERY,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, Who created all things by Jesus Christ" (Eph.3:9)

Also, believe it or not, this is a special "dispensation" (for lack of better words)..."THE DISPENSATION OF THE GRACE OF GOD".

The dispensation of the "Acts" of the apostles is a transitional one, so that is why so many cannot understand the differences between the "King" and "kingdom" message and the body of Christ ("the church") message.

From another thread I just posted, showing Jesus' own testimony that He is the Son of Man, Hid in God from the beginning``

Jesus is the particular "Mystery" as the Son of Man hidden in God from the beginning, kept secret until the time of His "revealing to the elect", and soon "coming" [appearing] to be revealed to all men -which will be terror for the ungodly and glory for the righteous.

Jesus' own testimony is that He is the "Secret Son of Man who was Hid in God from the beginning"

Jhn 6:26Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Jhn 6:27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed*[kept secret -hidden, until His time of revealing].

sealed -http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1162825493-2782.html#27
b) "since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret"
...

Who is 'sealed'? -the Son of Man
By Whom? -by the Father

When? -"from the beginning"

For what purpose? -to bring everlasting Life to those who believe in His name at the time of His revealing to them, which brings that "hiding in God, with the "Son of Man" who was "from the beginning", "Hid in God" to them, also".

Eph 1:13In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Psa 102:16 When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory.

Col 3:4 When Christ, [who is] our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

He was, from the beginning "Hid in God" until He was "made flesh".
It is His coming in flesh of the second creation which is our "hope"; for He came as Kinsman/Redeemer; made the ransom payment which was accepted, which ended the remembrance of transgression in Adam against us; and gives us His Life, to share the inheritance He ransomed, in Him, which we lost in Adam.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Jhn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jhn 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

MAD doctrine is shown false by Scripture, and is without revelation from the Holy Spirit who inspired the prophets, and it takes the glory due the Son of Man/Son of God, who was "from the beginning Hid in God" and tries to make a gnostic way to heaven for those in on the 'gnostic doctrine, which opposes the "Son of Man" as the Way, the Truth, and the Life, exclusively, for all people.

rightlydividingtheword · Nov 6, 2006

yeshuasavedme said:
From another thread I just posted, showing Jesus' own testimony that He is the Son of Man, Hid in God from the beginning``

Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Jhn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jhn 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

MAD doctrine is shown false by Scripture, and is without revelation from the Holy Spirit who inspired the prophets, and it takes the glory due the Son of Man/Son of God, who was "from the beginning Hid in God" and tries to make a gnostic way to heaven for those in on the 'gnostic doctrine, which opposes the "Son of Man" as the Way, the Truth, and the Life, exclusively, for all people.

I'm curious, will Paul be in the New Jerusalem on earth with Peter ,and the eleven?
Matthew 19:28
28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Is there another throne judging another tribe of Israel?

yeshuasavedme · Nov 6, 2006

rightlydividingtheword said:
I'm curious, will Paul be in the New Jerusalem on earth with Peter ,and the eleven?
Matthew 19:28
28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Is there another throne judging another tribe of Israel?

Of course Paul will be in the New Jerusalem ...which is built upon Jesus Christ and the twelve Apostles, but which does not come down to earth during the millennial reign but is still above, in heaven, during the millennial reign, and comes down from God out of heaven to earth after the regeneration of the heavens and earth.

During the millennial reign, Jerusalem above is that spiritual realm in the heavenlies where the "perfected in resurrection" bodies 'sons of God" will reign over earth from, on thrones, as principalities and powers and rulers of Light in heavenly places

-replacing the wicked angels who rule from the heavenly realm [which is a 'low' -that is- an earthly heaven -not the high heaven] as principalities and powers and rulers of darkness in 'heavenly' places -until Jesus sends them all to the everlasting fire at His return in glory to rule His purchased kingdom from "earth" and also from the heavenly realm, simultaneously

There is no Scripture that says the twelve Apostles will have thier thrones set on earth -but over earth, in the [lowest] heavenly realm.
John 14;1-3 promises that Jesus is coming to get His own, to take them to be where He is -and He spoke that to the Apostles.

And we who are taken to be with Him where He is shall ever be with Him in that heavenly realm, never returning to dwell on this present earth until it is regenerated.
Jesus returns to the millennial temple as the Glory of YHWH, as pr Ezekiel 43:1-7, and sets His foot in the Holy of Holies of the millennial temple to reign from there, but that He is "YHWH", and reigns from the heavenly realm by His Spirit, where we who are counted worthy reign with Him, from, is evident.

In Enoch all the righteous are set on thrones, in case you want to check Jesus' reference material on the thrones, in the resurrection.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Hannah said the poor "inherit the throne of glory" -quoting, of course, from the book of Enoch, for we inherit the dominion back, in Him, that Adam was given and lost, as seen in Scripture.
1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.
We reign in Him, with Him who are counted worthy top reign, in the millennial reign, but the regenerated in body Believers do not return to dwell in houses on this earth dduring the millennial reign but they are in the heavenly places -until New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven after the regeneration of the 'heavens' and the earth.

yeshuasavedme · Nov 6, 2006

yeshuasavedme said:
Of course Paul will be in the New Jerusalem ...which is built upon Jesus Christ and the twelve Apostles, but which does not come down to earth during the millennial reign but is still above, in heaven, during the millennial reign, and comes down from God out of heaven to earth after the regeneration of the heavens and earth.

During the millennial reign, Jerusalem above is that spiritual realm in the heavenlies where the "perfected in resurrection" bodies 'sons of God" will reign over earth from, on thrones, as principalities and powers and rulers of Light in heavenly places -replacing the wicked angels who rule from the heavenly realm [which is a 'low' -that is- an earthly heaven -not the high heaven] as principalities and powers and rulers of darkness in 'heavenly' places -until Jesus sends them all to the everlasting fire at His return in glory to rule His purchased kingdom from "earth" and also from the heavenly realm, simultaneously

There is no Scripture that says the twelve Apostles will have thier thrones set on earth -but over earth, in the [lowest] heavenly realm.
John 14;1-3 promises that Jesus is coming to get His own, to take them to be where He is -and He spoke that to the Apostles.

And we who are taken to be with Him where He is shall ever be with Him in that heavenly realm, never returning to dwell on this present earth until it is regenerated.
Jesus returns to the millennial temple as the Glory of YHWH, as pr Ezekiel 43:1-7, and sets His foot in the Holy of Holies of the millennial temple to reign from there, but that He is "YHWH", and reigns from the heavenly realm by His Spirit, where we who are counted worthy reign with Him, from, is evident.

In Enoch all the righteous are set on thrones, in case you want to check Jesus' reference material on the thrones, in the resurrection.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Hannah said the poor "inherit the throne of glory" -quoting, of course, from the book of Enoch, for we inherit the dominion back, in Him, that Adam was given and lost, as seen in Scripture.

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

We reign in Him, with Him who are counted worthy to reign, in the millennial reign, but the regenerated in body Believers do not return to dwell in houses on this earth during the millennial reign but they are in the heavenly places -until New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven after the regeneration of the 'heavens' and the earth.

There are more than twelve thrones!
Dominions, principalities and powers will be given to all the redeemed who are counted worthy to reign with Christ! in the kingdom of the Firstborn, forever.

All the righteous will be seated on "thrones" -those who are deemed worthy to rule with the Firstborn, that is; not all the redeemed will be rewarded with rulership in the kingdom of the Son of Man/Son of God; and rulership will vary according to what one has done with what one is given in this life [ only the redeemed will rule with Him, in His ransomed kingdom], for Jesus taught truth in the parables of the kingdom -the parables of the One and only One Kingdom.

When John was taken forward in time and was shown what is to be, in the Day of the LORD, he saw twenty four thrones and the elders seated there -and as Hannah prophesied, the poor will inherit the throne of glory, and Jesus said;

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

The fact is that the MAD dcotrine has no clue to God's revealed one program for this earth and the regeneration of all things, for the doting on the few words of the doctrine of MAD to the point of obsession causes the Truth of the Way as revealed to the Elect, to be obscured -as someone else on this board has already pointed out, about doting on words to the point of obcession;
1Ti 6:3¶If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

doting; noseo {nos-eh'-o}1) to be sick
2) metaph. of any ailment of the mind
a) to be taken with such an interest in a thing as amounts to a disease, to have a morbid fondness for

rightlydividingtheword · Nov 7, 2006

yeshuasavedme said:
eph3nine said -
Great question, rightlydividing.

There IS NO 13th throne...and NO NEED for Paul in the New Jerusalem. Scripture NEVER tells us that Paul will be with the 12, but on the contrary gives him a NEW destination, with a new apostleship for a NEW CREATION whose dwelling place will NOT be on the earth, but in the HEAVENLIES.

Amazing the out and out LIES that are perpetrated with absolute straight faces by those who would oppose Gods plan and purposes for we who are His BODY. YIKES and double YIKES[/QUOTE]

Can you reply to this, eph3nine? -and I am not a liar -please refrain from flaming but reply to the post.

Click to expand...

WHo is hannah the prophet? Quit trying to pass off god uninspired scripture.

yeshuasavedme · Nov 7, 2006

rightlydividingtheword said:
yeshuasavedme said:

WHo is hannah the prophet? Quit trying to pass off god uninspired scripture.

Click to expand...

I am amazed that you said this and claim to be 'rightlydividingthe word! Please look at Hannah's prophetic utterance in
1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

And now look at her prophetic utterance from Scripture -and know, rightlydividing... that it is almost completely from the book of Enoch -as much of Paul's writings also are, and Hannah was very well acqainted with Enoch to use the writings so skillfully, for they are a compilation of many truths taught within the book of 1 Enoch.

2And Hannah prayed and "uttered" my heart [=1) my inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding] rejoices...:

"My heart rejoices in the Lord;
My *horn is exalted in the Lord.
I smile at my enemies,
Because I rejoice in Your salvation.

2 "No one is holy like the Lord,
For there is none besides You,
Nor is there any rock like our God.

3 "Talk no more so very proudly;
Let no arrogance come from your mouth,
For the Lord is the God of knowledge;
And by Him actions are weighed.

4 "The bows of the mighty men are broken,
And those who stumbled are girded with strength.
5 Those who were full have hired themselves out for bread,
And the hungry have ceased to hunger.
Even the barren has borne seven,
And she who has many children has become feeble.

6 "The Lord kills and makes alive;
He brings down to the grave and brings up.
7 The Lord makes poor and makes rich;
He brings low and lifts up.
8 He raises the poor from the dust
And lifts the beggar from the ash heap,
To set them among princes
And make them inherit the throne of glory.

"For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's,
And He has set the world upon them.
9 He will guard the feet of His saints,
But the wicked shall be silent in darkness.

"For by strength no man shall prevail.
10 The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken in pieces;
From heaven He will thunder against them.
The Lord will judge the ends of the earth.

"He will give strength to His king,
And exalt the horn of His anointed."

There are more than twelve thrones!
Dominions, principalities and powers will be given to all the redeemed who are counted worthy to reign with Christ! in the kingdom of the Firstborn, forever.

All the righteous will be seated on "thrones" -those who are deemed worthy to rule with the Firstborn, that is; not all the redeemed will be rewarded with rulership in the kingdom of the Son of Man/Son of God; and rulership will vary according to what one has done with what one is given in this life [ only the redeemed will rule with Him, in His ransomed kingdom], for Jesus taught truth in the parables of the kingdom -the parables of the One and only One Kingdom.

When John was taken forward in time and was shown what is to be, in the Day of the LORD, he saw twenty four thrones and the elders seated there -and as Hannah prophesied, the poor will inherit the throne of glory, and Jesus said;

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

The fact is that the MAD dcotrine has no clue to God's revealed one program for this earth and the regeneration of all things, for the doting on the few words of the doctrine of MAD to the point of obsession causes the Truth of the Way as revealed to the Elect, to be obscured -as someone else on this board has already pointed out, about doting on words to the point of obcession;
1Ti 6:3¶If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

doting; noseo {nos-eh'-o}1) to be sick
2) metaph. of any ailment of the mind
a) to be taken with such an interest in a thing as amounts to a disease, to have a morbid fondness for

Click to expand...

eph3Nine · Nov 7, 2006

rightlydividingtheword said:
WHo is hannah the prophet? Quit trying to pass off uninspired words as scripture.

When opposers of the Gospel of the Grace of God try to tell us that a book that is NOT in the canon of scripture contains all of the mystery truths that were given to Paul, I just have to wonder just how gullible they think we ARE?????
We today, are to listen to OUR apostle , appointed by God...NOT ramblings in the book of Enoch, that are never said to be "inspired of God" anywhere.

Let the reader beware!

yeshuasavedme · Nov 7, 2006

This is a direct contradiction to your post, ehp3nine. This is Scripture, which your own words are in direct contradiction to.
That should cause you to reflect upon your denials and to recant your contradictions to the Word.
so what can you say against the Word and be believed, when the Word says opposite to your own doctrines which were not in existence until modern times?

yeshuasavedme said:
I am amazed that rightlydividing...said this and can claim to be 'rightlydividingtheword! Please look at Hannah's prophetic utterance in
1Sa 2:8
"He raiseth up the poor out of the dust [resurrection of the body], [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

And now look at her prophetic utterance from Scripture -and know, rightlydividing... that it is almost completely taken from the book of Enoch -as much of Paul's writings also are, and Hannah was very well acqainted with Enoch to use the writings so skillfully, for they are a compilation of many truths taught within the book of 1 Enoch.

2And Hannah prayed and "uttered" my heart [=1) my inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding] rejoices...:

"My heart rejoices in the Lord;
My *horn is exalted in the Lord.
I smile at my enemies,
Because I rejoice in Your salvation.

2 "No one is holy like the Lord,
For there is none besides You,
Nor is there any rock like our God.

3 "Talk no more so very proudly;
Let no arrogance come from your mouth,
For the Lord is the God of knowledge;
And by Him actions are weighed.

4 "The bows of the mighty men are broken,
And those who stumbled are girded with strength.
5 Those who were full have hired themselves out for bread,
And the hungry have ceased to hunger.
Even the barren has borne seven,
And she who has many children has become feeble.

6 "The Lord kills and makes alive;
He brings down to the grave and brings up.
7 The Lord makes poor and makes rich;
He brings low and lifts up.
8 He raises the poor from the dust
And lifts the beggar from the ash heap,
To set them among princes
And make them inherit the throne of glory.

"For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's,
And He has set the world upon them.
9 He will guard the feet of His saints,
But the wicked shall be silent in darkness.

"For by strength no man shall prevail.
10 The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken in pieces;
From heaven He will thunder against them.
The Lord will judge the ends of the earth.

"He will give strength to His king,
And exalt the horn of His anointed."

eph3nine said;

There IS NO 13th throne...and NO NEED for Paul in the New Jerusalem. Scripture NEVER tells us that Paul will be with the 12, but on the contrary gives him a NEW destination, with a new apostleship for a NEW CREATION whose dwelling place will NOT be on the earth, but in the HEAVENLIES.

Amazing the out and out LIES that are perpetrated with absolute straight faces by those who would oppose Gods plan and purposes for we who are His BODY. YIKES and double YIKES[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme

There are more than twelve thrones!
Dominions, principalities and powers will be given to all the redeemed who are counted worthy to reign with Christ! in the kingdom of the Firstborn, forever.

All the righteous will be seated on "thrones" -those who are deemed worthy to rule with the Firstborn, that is; not all the redeemed will be rewarded with rulership in the kingdom of the Son of Man/Son of God; and rulership will vary according to what one has done with what one is given in this life [ only the redeemed will rule with Him, in His ransomed kingdom], for Jesus taught truth in the parables of the kingdom -the parables of the One and only One Kingdom.

When John was taken forward in time and was shown what is to be, in the Day of the LORD, he saw twenty four thrones and the elders seated there -and as Hannah prophesied, the poor will inherit the throne of glory, and Jesus said;

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

The fact is that the MAD dcotrine has no clue to God's revealed one program for this earth and the regeneration of all things, for the doting on the few words of the doctrine of MAD to the point of obsession causes the Truth of the Way as revealed to the Elect, to be obscured -as someone else on this board has already pointed out, about doting on words to the point of obcession;
1Ti 6:3¶If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

doting; noseo {nos-eh'-o}1) to be sick
2) metaph. of any ailment of the mind
a) to be taken with such an interest in a thing as amounts to a disease, to have a morbid fondness for

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