"Key Evangelical Quits Amid Gay Sex Claim"
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lismore
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Hi there
I hope you are well.
The people who tell them its wrong without actually giving them the means to change: Isaiah 10:27.
Jesus came full of grace and truth. The truth tells the people what they need to hear (not what they want to hear) but the grace provides the means of repentance.
Telling someone that homosexuality is wrong without providing the grace/power for change is just preaching self righteously.
Yes and the main advocate of telling gay people about their sin has just been caught in the same sin. The church is riddled with the same sins as the world..........why dont we sweep our house before the soap box comes out? When we live right people will see and take notice. The Christians were first called Christians in Antioch because the world saw how they lived, not how they talked.
St Francis of Assisi preached that you live right and people see the difference. 'Preach the gospel and if necessary use words' , compare this with people who squawk about morals while visiting male prositutes at their congregations expense
I actually tithe the way the bible says and no I dont want it back. Psalm 102:16 NIV
For the LORD will rebuild Zion and appear in his glory. I want to see Jesus the messiah of Israel return and appear in his glory, which comes when Zion is rebuilt (hence the tithe).
So the bible says. The freewill offering is given to the local body, the tithe eaten/celebrated in Jerusalem to build up Zion for the return of our Lord
. Every mention of the tithe in the bible involves Jerusalem, from Melchizideck King of Salem (!!) onwards. Thats why I join the tithe in Jerusalem annually.
Deuteronomy 14:
23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always.
2 Chronicles 33:4 NIV
He built altars in the temple of the LORD, of which the LORD had said, "My Name will remain in Jerusalem forever."
It only involves money when you live too far from jerusalem to carry your tithe there:
24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice.
because:
Deuteronomy 12:17 NIV
You must not eat in your own towns the tithe of your grain and new wine and oil, or the firstborn of your herds and flocks, or whatever you have vowed to give, or your freewill offerings or special gifts.
When you bring the tithe into the storehouse in Zion see what happens:
Malachi 3:10 NIV
Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.
Zechariah 14:17 NIV
If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain.
The tithe is distinct from the freewill financial offering which is never a set tenth:
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings.
2 Corinthians 9:7 NIV
Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
The doctrine of giving 10% of your wages religiously to the church building came in via a succession of preachers: Ambrose of Milan, St Augustine and St John Chrysostom in the 4th century. More and more pentecostal/ WOF churches are leaving catholic teaching on this issue and going back to the bible.
This is a Berean call (Acts 17:11)
. Check out what I say with the bible!
I hope you are well.
The people who tell them its wrong without actually giving them the means to change: Isaiah 10:27.
Jesus came full of grace and truth. The truth tells the people what they need to hear (not what they want to hear) but the grace provides the means of repentance.
Telling someone that homosexuality is wrong without providing the grace/power for change is just preaching self righteously.
Yes and the main advocate of telling gay people about their sin has just been caught in the same sin. The church is riddled with the same sins as the world..........why dont we sweep our house before the soap box comes out? When we live right people will see and take notice. The Christians were first called Christians in Antioch because the world saw how they lived, not how they talked.
St Francis of Assisi preached that you live right and people see the difference. 'Preach the gospel and if necessary use words' , compare this with people who squawk about morals while visiting male prositutes at their congregations expense
I actually tithe the way the bible says and no I dont want it back. Psalm 102:16 NIV
For the LORD will rebuild Zion and appear in his glory. I want to see Jesus the messiah of Israel return and appear in his glory, which comes when Zion is rebuilt (hence the tithe).
So the bible says. The freewill offering is given to the local body, the tithe eaten/celebrated in Jerusalem to build up Zion for the return of our Lord
. Every mention of the tithe in the bible involves Jerusalem, from Melchizideck King of Salem (!!) onwards. Thats why I join the tithe in Jerusalem annually. Deuteronomy 14:
23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always.
2 Chronicles 33:4 NIV
He built altars in the temple of the LORD, of which the LORD had said, "My Name will remain in Jerusalem forever."
It only involves money when you live too far from jerusalem to carry your tithe there:
24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice.
because:
Deuteronomy 12:17 NIV
You must not eat in your own towns the tithe of your grain and new wine and oil, or the firstborn of your herds and flocks, or whatever you have vowed to give, or your freewill offerings or special gifts.
When you bring the tithe into the storehouse in Zion see what happens:
Malachi 3:10 NIV
Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.
Zechariah 14:17 NIV
If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain.
The tithe is distinct from the freewill financial offering which is never a set tenth:
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings.
2 Corinthians 9:7 NIV
Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
The doctrine of giving 10% of your wages religiously to the church building came in via a succession of preachers: Ambrose of Milan, St Augustine and St John Chrysostom in the 4th century. More and more pentecostal/ WOF churches are leaving catholic teaching on this issue and going back to the bible.
This is a Berean call (Acts 17:11)
. Check out what I say with the bible!
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He could have repented along time ago back in August. We dont know. He just didnt confess is and broadcast it. He may have thought it was all over til the guy came forward. How many here after you confess of your sins you go around tellling others? Many here have leadership position. You dont do that. You turned away from it not to do it again. The Lord forgot it.
But what would have happened if he had confessed it? Thats what I was talking about in my last post. The same thing would have happened.
But what would have happened if he had confessed it? Thats what I was talking about in my last post. The same thing would have happened.
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RevKidd
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Has anyone caught the Yahoo interview on Yahoo's front page with Diane Sawyer. The are interview Joyce Meyers.
Diane is trying to make the claim that if Haggard is gay, shouldn't the evangelicals welcome and allow homosexuals to minister and be in leadership.
Diane is assuming that Haggard is Gay in the sense that he is physically attracted to men the same way that I am attracted to my wife.
I don't believe that all who engage in homosexual activity do it because the are attracted to the same sex the same way that heterosexuals are attracted to each other.
Sex, in itself, is attractive. I believe that many people are addicted to the pleasure and gratification of sex regardless of who it is they are having sex with. This even goes for self gratification, which people can be addicted to, but are not attracted to themselves... Am I making any sense? I believe that gay sex can be like a fetish for some people.
I believe this is where Haggard falls into. Something from his past affected him in a way that it triggered something. And as he said, he has been "warring" with it his whole life. The man has 5 kids, I bet that he does love and is attracted to his wife. But there is this temptation, that keeps alluring him.
So here is Diane Sawyer, trying to Label Haggard as "Gay" and then asking should evangelicals accept it because a evangelical leader has temptations or vices of the gay kind?
This kind of upset me, because Haggard has admitted that his actions are wrong, sinful and are not biblical. But Sawyer, regardless of what Haggard has said, is trying to label him. I bet you Haggard would say that he is not gay.
I have to say I am proud of Joyce. When asked if evangelicals should accept homosexual leaders, she said that I don't think it will happen because that is not what the bible says. Joyce was very to the point with her answers and didn't beat around the bush.
Anyways... My prayers are with Haggard and his family. Especially his wife. This has to be a very hard time for all of them. I hope that everyone can find forgiveness and restoration.
Diane is trying to make the claim that if Haggard is gay, shouldn't the evangelicals welcome and allow homosexuals to minister and be in leadership.
Diane is assuming that Haggard is Gay in the sense that he is physically attracted to men the same way that I am attracted to my wife.
I don't believe that all who engage in homosexual activity do it because the are attracted to the same sex the same way that heterosexuals are attracted to each other.
Sex, in itself, is attractive. I believe that many people are addicted to the pleasure and gratification of sex regardless of who it is they are having sex with. This even goes for self gratification, which people can be addicted to, but are not attracted to themselves... Am I making any sense? I believe that gay sex can be like a fetish for some people.
I believe this is where Haggard falls into. Something from his past affected him in a way that it triggered something. And as he said, he has been "warring" with it his whole life. The man has 5 kids, I bet that he does love and is attracted to his wife. But there is this temptation, that keeps alluring him.
So here is Diane Sawyer, trying to Label Haggard as "Gay" and then asking should evangelicals accept it because a evangelical leader has temptations or vices of the gay kind?
This kind of upset me, because Haggard has admitted that his actions are wrong, sinful and are not biblical. But Sawyer, regardless of what Haggard has said, is trying to label him. I bet you Haggard would say that he is not gay.
I have to say I am proud of Joyce. When asked if evangelicals should accept homosexual leaders, she said that I don't think it will happen because that is not what the bible says. Joyce was very to the point with her answers and didn't beat around the bush.
Anyways... My prayers are with Haggard and his family. Especially his wife. This has to be a very hard time for all of them. I hope that everyone can find forgiveness and restoration.
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- Aug 21, 2006
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Well, let's just let Haggard's action change the eternal truth of the Almighty. Maybe he won't mind. Where do these people (like Diane Sawyer) come from? Do they have a clue who God is??? God does not change what is, and is not, sin, for a man.
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