"Bullhorn Guy": Robb Bell (NOOMA) vs Todd Friel (Way of the Master Radio)

Prayer_Warrior83

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Has anyone heard of this debate lately?

Brief rundown: Rob Bell, producer of the NOOMA series of short teaching films, released a video simply called "Bullhorn" where he attacks open air preachers, those that expound on sin, righteouness and judgment; and basically says that such does not reflect the love of Christ. In essence, just speak of grace only, as any mention of hell will just get people turned off.
http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Bullhorn.htm

Now, in response, Way of the Master Radio host Todd Friel made his own video in which he addresses Bell's statements and pretty much says that what Bell considers to be love is really nothing short of spiritual negligence.
http://interface.audiovideoweb.com/lnk/il80win10116/WOTMR/friel_bullhorn_response.wmv/play.asx
 

jka

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I think Todd Friel is way off. instead of attacking Rob bell, why not work together to reach more people for Christ? Why do we have to fight each other? I think Rob Bell's point was that the way that some people go about witnessing can turn more people off to the kingdom of God than bring them closer.
I agree with Bell, we need to love first, with Christ's love. Be honest, If you were walking down the street, and you are a born again believer, and some one is standing on the street corner yelling "you are going to hell sinner" through a bullhorn, aren't you going to try to avoid him? My thought would be that he/she is making Christianity look bad. Granted, some people need that slap in the face, fire and brimstone stuff yelled at them, but I think the majority of the pople in this world may look the other way from that point on and try to stay away rather than feel the love, and explore what loving God is really all about. If we love Jesus, why not show his love, instead of turning people off from even exploring the idea of becoming like Christ.
Also, did you see the guys in Todd's video, Most of them looked a bit uneasy, and didn't want to be sitting there! Also, How many people did they edited out that did get up and walk away...
All I am trying to say is I think Todd Friel, and everyone who understands that his video was a direct attack on Rob Bell has completely missed the point, and may want to go back and re-anylize what it was that Rob Bell was really trying to say. And one last thing, Lets all work together to bring people to the kingdom of God, not against one another... God bless...
 
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Willo

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I think Todd Friel is way off. instead of attacking Rob bell, why not work together to reach more people for Christ?

Same arguement could be put forward, Why doesn't Rob Bell stop attacking street preachers, and start working together with them to reach more people for Christ?
 
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jka

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good argument willo, but I think the point of Bell's video was to "work" with the street preachers, and possibly help them to understand that they may infact be doing more harm than good.
I then had a thought this morning... By posting on this site, I am infact trying to persuade people of my perseption, and it is not glorifying God... I am the one doing the fighting, and not working with Todd. So again, lets all work together for the good of Christ. The Bell approach is good, and the Friel approach is good... God Bless all of you, now let's all get out there and make a change for Christ...
 
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Prayer_Warrior83

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I think Todd Friel is way off. instead of attacking Rob bell, why not work together to reach more people for Christ? Why do we have to fight each other? I think Rob Bell's point was that the way that some people go about witnessing can turn more people off to the kingdom of God than bring them closer.

Because like it or not, truth is by nature exclusive, not inclusive. While it may be possible to find a middle ground between two, chances are that it will only be based on partial similarities rather than representing the whole of either side.

I agree with Bell, we need to love first, with Christ's love. Be honest, If you were walking down the street, and you are a born again believer, and some one is standing on the street corner yelling "you are going to hell sinner" through a bullhorn, aren't you going to try to avoid him?

Never.

Let me kindly ask you something:
When you yourself see such a person, are you appreciative of the endless nights in which they committed themselves to praying for the lost, to asking God to help in the struggle with the fear of opposition, to seeking the Holy Spirit for insight and annointing to declare forth Truth with conviction and power? Do you feel your soul being edified when you hear what is obviously the Word of God being declared out in the open for everyone - both saved and unsaved - to hear?
If while walking down the street you chose to ignore such a preacher yet simultaneously a stranger walked up to you and asked what you thought, whose side would you be on?

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” Romans 1:16-17

My thought would be that he/she is making Christianity look bad. Granted, some people need that slap in the face, fire and brimstone stuff yelled at them, but I think the majority of the pople in this world may look the other way from that point on and try to stay away rather than feel the love, and explore what loving God is really all about. If we love Jesus, why not show his love, instead of turning people off from even exploring the idea of becoming like Christ.

Because you can't be made Christlike [sanctified] without having been made Lawful before He who is Holy and Just [justified].

28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Romans 8:28-30

If you're more concerned with the favor and opinions of man rather than the glory and righteousness of God as expressed by Christ and him crucified to pay the price for our depravity, then no one's going to enter the kingdom of heaven.

For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Galatians 1:10

Also, did you see the guys in Todd's video, Most of them looked a bit uneasy, and didn't want to be sitting there! Also, How many people did they edited out that did get up and walk away...

How many teachers actually show application plus theory together at the same time?

All I am trying to say is I think Todd Friel, and everyone who understands that his video was a direct attack on Rob Bell has completely missed the point, and may want to go back and re-anylize what it was that Rob Bell was really trying to say. And one last thing, Lets all work together to bring people to the kingdom of God, not against one another... God bless...

The answer is simple: Bell is intentionally encouraging the removal of topics such as sin, righteousness and judgment in order to present what is clearly an antinomian view wherein the sole quality of love (as he sees it) is given as the full gospel itself yet lacks any specific explanation of transgression. It is in essence a pacifying of The Cross. The issue here is not one of method, but message.

Let us reveal that sin is a breach of God's standard, that it necessitates punishment and makes the condemned a subject of wrath. Let us never treat sin as though it were trivial or impersonal, but may we be bold and go into particulars; not just giving sin an objective glance, but confronting the various personal transgressions in detail, especially those most current at the time. For anyone must be wounded before they can be healed, and destroyed before they can be made alive. Let us speak of the love of God through Jesus Christ; but may we do so in connection with his justice.
Lectures to my Students, Charles Spurgeon
 
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jka

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I do see your point, but do not agree. And the beautiful thing is, I don't have too...
Yes, If I were walking down the street, and a street preacher was yelling his sermon at people and people are crossing the street just to avoid him. And if some one were to approach me and ask me my thought on the whole thing, I would side with the street preacher, I would also make it known to who I was speaking with that it makes me uncomfortable as well, and that I don't nessessarily agree with it. I would then use the situation to witness to this individual and lead them to christ in a loving, non-threatning way. I do believe that God can use any situation, and he does.
I do not agree that the debate is over content, I do believe that the Todd video was directly attacking, and the whole debate is about personal style. I know I am not going to convince you one way or another, and I am not trying to. I only saw Todd's video, and was offended, and wanted to voice my opinion. I thank you for your thoughts, and respect them very much...
 
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hiumble1

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Amen Prayer Warrior!!!

I believe many are turned off because it is pricking there hearts.
We are still in this world and as long as we are here this world tries to influence and are thoughts are not on God. We are more concerned about how the world feels about us even though the world is condemmed.

I look at it this way. Explain the truth with compassion and passion. do not compromise the truth. Must give the knowledge of sin (the law)otherwise the cross is foolishness. Most will be offended not because of the presentation but because they now have to acknowledge that God knows what they have done (they didn't get away with it) but now they must come humbly to the cross otherwise their sentence will be carried out.
 
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jka

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I agree with Post #10, People we lead to Christ have to acknowledge that they are in fact sinners, and they must confess their sins to God, and they need to understand that If they do not give their lives to Christ, they are on a very wide and straight road to hell! We all could die and second, whether we have given our lives to Christ or not. and if we have not given our lives to Christ, then yes, we will go to hell.
I have tried the approach of preaching fire and hell and brimstone, etc... I know one individual that was a good friend will no longer speak to me, and hopefully a seed was planted, and it really is in Gods hands, but looking at it from a human perspective, it really will take an act of God for this person to ever listen to anything that has anyting to do with Jesus again... Because I chose to do exactly what we are talking about and tell him the road that he was truely on first without showing Gods love first, I pushed him further away. Had I just loved him with Christ love, and waited for the right opportunity to share the true gospel (yes including sin and the road to hell) I think he may have been more receptive, and possibly been a brother in Christ.
My brother is another example. My father took him to one of those heaven's gates and hell's flames presentations, and although I have not seen one myself, I believe it pushed him further away.
different people require diferent approaches. Yes, some people require the Hell fire and brimestone approach to get their attention, but I do not think this is a majority. Why offend the majority and possibly push them further, when we could reach so many others.
The 2 main comandments from God are found in Luke 10:27-37. Luke 10:27b says "`You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.' And, `Love your neighbor as yourself.'" (bold added by me...)
Yes, if I was lost, I would want someone to share the gospel with me, but I would want them to tell me in a way that I would want to listen.
Love you neighbor as yourself, to me means treat others the way youd like to be treated. I do believe this goes as far as witnessing.
I urge you to go out on the street with a bullhorn as yell at peolpe that they are going to hell if they stay on the road they are on, etc... then post back here the response you got.
 
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Prayer_Warrior83

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I would personally define "Hellfire Preaching" as deliberate condemnation without sound reason or accompanied grace; something the majority of street preachers will admit to not doing themselves in addition to speaking against.

I urge you to go out on the street with a bullhorn as yell at peolpe that they are going to hell if they stay on the road they are on, etc... then post back here the response you got.

Take a look at Willo's "Journal of a Journey" Open-Air Blog here at CF where he has chronicled his faithfulness in preaching on Saturday nights in the Queen Street Mall here in Brisbane, Australia. You'll find it in his profile. :)
 
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jka

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I agree with what you say, but the original post was talking about the 2 videos (Bell vs. Friel). If you listen to the first thing that Bell says, he is talking about hearing someone yelling on a bullhorn and he hears "sin and hell and burn and repent, and then I hear the word Jesus"

So like I said in one of my earlier posts to this forum, I believe Bell's original intent was to work with those individuals who are yelling "sin and hell and burn and repent, etc..." And to help those individual understand that they may be doing more harm. But like you said in your post
I would personally define "Hellfire Preaching" as deliberate condemnation without sound reason or accompanied grace; something the majority of street preachers will admit to not doing themselves in addition to speaking against.
So, I do believe in street preaching and sharing the gospel, However back to the original reason this forum was created, I feel that Friel compleatly missed the whole point of what Bell's video was all about. I 100% agree with what Bell said in his video, and if you have not watched it, I urge you to watch it, or go back and re-watch it.
Friel was attacking Bell and from what I understood was making false claims about the point that Bell was making in his video.

I really thought that was what this forum was about, the two videos and how they related. That is what I have been posting.

Again, I do think steet preaching is very nessessary, If it is done as you said in your post and not all the "HELLFIRE" stuff as you mentioned.
 
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Prayer_Warrior83

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I agree with what you say, but the original post was talking about the 2 videos (Bell vs. Friel). If you listen to the first thing that Bell says, he is talking about hearing someone yelling on a bullhorn and he hears "sin and hell and burn and repent, and then I hear the word Jesus"

So like I said in one of my earlier posts to this forum, I believe Bell's original intent was to work with those individuals who are yelling "sin and hell and burn and repent, etc..." And to help those individual understand that they may be doing more harm. But like you said in your post

So, I do believe in street preaching and sharing the gospel, However back to the original reason this forum was created, I feel that Friel compleatly missed the whole point of what Bell's video was all about. I 100% agree with what Bell said in his video, and if you have not watched it, I urge you to watch it, or go back and re-watch it.
Friel was attacking Bell and from what I understood was making false claims about the point that Bell was making in his video.

I really thought that was what this forum was about, the two videos and how they related. That is what I have been posting.

Again, I do think steet preaching is very nessessary, If it is done as you said in your post and not all the "HELLFIRE" stuff as you mentioned.

I have indeed watched both which is exactly why I'm bringing this topic up.

The truth of the matter is that Todd Friel did not produce his video to attack Bell pre-emptively for the sake of being nasty, but rather as a counter to the statements that Bell and others are making that go against the principles - not methods - of what scriptural evangelism is as the likes of Friel, Ray Comfort, Kirk Cameron and others emphasise. NOOMA was already hitting Christian bookstores before Way of The Master Radio came on air.
Think back to what Friel said regarding the doctor analogy ask yourself which one do these two belong respectively?

We need look no further to the Bible itself for instruction regarding how to reach out to specific people groups (1 Corinthians 9:19-23), how to discern between true and false converts (Mark 4:1-20), what should be said and what should be withheld (Matthew 7:6), the nature and condition of the unsaved (Romans 3:9-20, 1 Corinthians 2:14) vs the saved (Ephesians 5:8-9), how we are to convict people of their sins (Romans 3:19-20, Romans 7), how the unsaved actually see themselves (Prov 20:6); the Bible is all we need.
Yes, each circumstance is different and unique, but all numbers regardless of varying value have their lowest common denominators. Don't just concentrate on the method, focus on the core principles behind it, and make sure that it evenly weighs against scripture (Acts 16:11); does it elevate man by appealing to his worldly, humanistic desires (1 Timothy 6:3-6) or does it glorify the holiness of God by contrasting it with our total depravity (Romans 8:6-8)?

I'm not trying to flame anyone here, but With the above in mind, it should be obvious to those familiar with both ministries and those involved in them as to who actually has the upper hand in terms of being more in line with the Biblical model of salvation and how this applies practically in our outreach.

I encourage others to share their thoughts as this is the Gospel we're talkng about which Christ has called us to live by, to share and also to guard.
 
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MikeMcK

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I think Todd Friel is way off. instead of attacking Rob bell, why not work together to reach more people for Christ? Why do we have to fight each other? I think Rob Bell's point was that the way that some people go about witnessing can turn more people off to the kingdom of God than bring them closer.
I agree with Bell, we need to love first, with Christ's love. Be honest, If you were walking down the street, and you are a born again believer, and some one is standing on the street corner yelling "you are going to hell sinner" through a bullhorn, aren't you going to try to avoid him? My thought would be that he/she is making Christianity look bad. Granted, some people need that slap in the face, fire and brimstone stuff yelled at them, but I think the majority of the pople in this world may look the other way from that point on and try to stay away rather than feel the love, and explore what loving God is really all about. If we love Jesus, why not show his love, instead of turning people off from even exploring the idea of becoming like Christ.
Also, did you see the guys in Todd's video, Most of them looked a bit uneasy, and didn't want to be sitting there! Also, How many people did they edited out that did get up and walk away...
All I am trying to say is I think Todd Friel, and everyone who understands that his video was a direct attack on Rob Bell has completely missed the point, and may want to go back and re-anylize what it was that Rob Bell was really trying to say. And one last thing, Lets all work together to bring people to the kingdom of God, not against one another... God bless...

Just answer this: I'm all for "loving people", but at what point is Rob Bell going to get around to loving them enough to share the Gospel with them?
 
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Willo

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It is almost like Bell is attacking John the Baptist...

So true, could you imagine Rob Bell releasing a new DVD to combat the repentance preacher in the wilderness. John the Baptist is everything Rob Bell preaches against, in fact Jesus Christ is everything Rob Bell preaches against, since Christ went out saying "REPENT OR PERISH!" (Luke 13).
 
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