When was Christ given dominion and authority over all things?

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GLJCA

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MY bible says that satan is the god of this world....hmmmmm...maybe its because covenant theology folks have to contradict the Word of God to make THEIR theology "fit".
Hmmm that is a good point. Let's look at the contrasts on this subject.

1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Eph 1:22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Hbr 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing [that is] not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Eph 1:21-23 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,
We have all of these scriptures and more that show that Jesus Christ is over all things and all things have been put under His feet. While you have one scripture that says that satan is the god of this world and from that you assert that all things are not put under Christ's feet. Now that is a contradiction if there ever was one.

Tell me you can't really believe that all of those verses are wrong and that one scripture is correct, do you?

GLJCA
 
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eph3Nine

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As I said once before, if you think that Jesus is reigning today, then I have to LAUGH! Where is the lion laying down with the lamb? Where is PEACE on earth? Good grief but you guys have to really LIE to yourselves to protect the doctrine that God has put in the ACCURSED pile.

Get with the MYSTERY program, or get outta my way. I dont deal with those who set themselves in opposition to the work of the Cross. Waste of time.
 
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JMWHALEN

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it is a pretty safe assumption since it aligns with what the Bible says. Also since I have shown you that it is the same gospel that Jesus instructed Peter and Paul and the rest of the disciples to preach.



John are you saying that you do not stand with EPH on whether Paul preached a different gospel than Peter? If you do not then I owe you an apology. Although, why have you been in a discussion when you are presenting something completely different than what the discussion is about?

GLJCA
________________



There you go with "the" gospel. You assume tthat there is just one "the gospel."-JMW


".... it is a pretty safe assumption since it aligns with what the Bible says." -REPPY

Mc:Wrong.

Preaching "the" gospel of the kingdom/Peter(and Judas).... preached "the gospel of the kingdom":

"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, andJudas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:1-8


"....And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:7,8

"And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people." Matthew 4:23

"And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people." Matthew 9:35



"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

"And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was done by him: and he was perplexed, because that it was said of some, that John was risen from the dead;
And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again.
And Herod said, John have I beheaded: but who is this, of whom I hear such things? And he desired to see him.
And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.
And the people, when they knew it, followed him: and he received them, and spake unto them of the kingdom of God, and healed them that had need of healing.
And when the day began to wear away, then came the twelve, and said unto him, Send the multitude away, that they may go into the towns and country round about, and lodge, and get victuals: for we are here in a desert place.
But he said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they said, We have no more but five loaves and two fishes; except we should go and buy meat for all this people.
For they were about five thousand men. And he said to his disciples, Make them sit down by fifties in a company.
And they did so, and made them all sit down.
Then he took the five loaves and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed them, and brake, and gave to the disciples to set before the multitude.
And they did eat, and were all filled: and there was taken up of fragments that remained to them twelve baskets.
And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?
They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.
He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing; Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day. " Luke 9:1-22

So, they are "preaching 'the' gospel." A short time later, they are charged not to reveal that He is "The Christ of God", and then they are told about the prophecy, the fact, of the impending death, burial, and resurrection, not its meaning, for:


"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31,32

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9

Peter tries to prevent the very death that, even according to the "one gospel brainwashees", is part of "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, i.e., "...Christ died for our sins...", that justifies us today. And none of the 12 even believed in the resurrection, even after its prohecised ocurrence.


Same "the" gospel? Right. Good one.

According to the scriptures, they were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 at least prior to the dbr.


Provide scripture, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, or anybody, preached "I/He is going to die for your sins....be buried.....be raised again for your/our justification....believe on this and you will be saved...." Chapter and verse.

You cannot, and will not. Thus, "the gospel of the kingdom", which the 12 did preach in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since 1 Cor. 15:1-4 was not preached during this same time period, at least prior to the dbr. And thus, your "supporting walls"(premises) of your "argument" crumbles. The statement "one gospel" is false.

And this is, and has been, GLJCA's response:

"...We cannot tell..."(Mt. 21:27, Mark 11:33)

"John are you saying that you do not stand with EPH on whether Paul preached a different gospel than Peter? If you do not then I owe you an apology. Although, why have you been in a discussion when you are presenting something completely different than what the discussion is about?"-REPPY


Mc: I never said that I "do not stand with EPH on whether Paul preached a different gospel than Peter." Paul did preach a different gospel than Peter preached . However, as I stated:


"I have not addressed that issue(as yet). The only issue I am addressing with you, REPPY, is the crux of the issue: is there more than one "the" gospel, i.e., is your "argument" credible that the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4. And I dismantled it with scripture. No one was preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, AT LEAST PRIOR to the dbr ,as a basis for justification, while John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12 were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, they are not the same, and scripture refutes you. And no amount of scripture evidencing any argument,mine or anyone else's, supporting that only Paul was, after the dbr, preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, and not the 12, would be profitable, and would not convince anyone who cannot distinguish the difference between the gospel of the kingdom and 1 Cor. 15:1-4. If one cannot see prior to the dbr what the gospel of the kingdom is, such as yourself, than no amount of scriptural evidence after the dbr can persuade this person after the dbr who holds to the mindset of the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4="homogeneous" "the" gospel. And why? No discernment is possible, since this person thinks "gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4", and must conclude that "they all preached the same thing." Acts 8:30? No.

In Christ and with Christ,
John
 
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JMWHALEN

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Here it is, John.






Now I have to admit that you did come back and narrow your argument down to before the DBR. So am I to understand that after the DBR you admit that Paul and Peter preached the same gospel to both Jew and Gentile? I have shown that Paul preached the same gospel that Peter preached. So by what you are saying, you believe that before the DBR there was a diffferent gospel but after the DBR there was only one gospel that all of the disciples preached, right?

GLJCA
__________

"Now I have to admit that you did come back and narrow your argument down to before the DBR. So am I to understand that after the DBR you admit that Paul and Peter preached the same gospel to both Jew and Gentile? I have shown that Paul preached the same gospel that Peter preached. So by what you are saying, you believe that before the DBR there was a diffferent gospel but after the DBR there was only one gospel that all of the disciples preached, right? "


Mc; Wrong. I never came back and "narrowed" down my argument. Slower:

Paul did preach a different gospel than Peter preached . However, as I stated:


"I have not addressed that issue(as yet). The only issue I am addressing with you, REPPY, is the crux of the issue: is there more than one "the" gospel, i.e., is your "argument" credible that the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4. And I dismantled it with scripture. No one was preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, AT LEAST PRIOR to the dbr ,as a basis for justification, while John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12 were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, they are not the same, and scripture refutes you. And no amount of scripture evidencing any argument,mine or anyone else's, supporting that only Paul was, after the dbr, preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, and not the 12, would be profitable, and would not convince anyone who cannot distinguish the difference between the gospel of the kingdom and 1 Cor. 15:1-4. If one cannot see prior to the dbr what the gospel of the kingdom is, such as yourself, than no amount of scriptural evidence after the dbr can persuade this person after the dbr who holds to the mindset of the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4="homogeneous" "the" gospel. And why? No discernment is possible, since this person thinks "gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4", and must conclude that "they all preached the same thing." Acts 8:30? No.


You have not shown that Paul preached the same gospel Peter preached. You cannot. Why? You cannot define the gospel of the kingdom,i.e., you cannot discern the differences between the gospel of the kingdom and 1 Cor. 15:1 prior to the dbr, and thus, you cannot make any discernment in the Acts period between what Paul and Peter preached. Acts 8:30? No.

In Christ,
John
 
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JMWHALEN

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Ok let's see what 1Cor 15:1-4 says. First Paul says that they received the gospel. They believed the gospel................................(rest of GLJCA post) GLJCA
___________


I asked:

Mc: Show us the gospel of the kingdom the Lord Jesus Christ preached, John The Baptist preached, the 12 preached,per the Lord Jesus Christ's orders in MATTHEW CHAPTER 10, prior to the dbr=1 Cor. 15:1-4.


TILT with the above response:

1. the gospel of the kingdom has no mention of the dbr:

Preaching "the" gospel of the kingdom/Peter(and Judas).... preached "the gospel of the kingdom":

"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, andJudas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:1-8


"....And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:7,8

"And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people." Matthew 4:23

"And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people." Matthew 9:35



"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was done by him: and he was perplexed, because that it was said of some, that John was risen from the dead;
And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again.
And Herod said, John have I beheaded: but who is this, of whom I hear such things? And he desired to see him.
And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.
And the people, when they knew it, followed him: and he received them, and spake unto them of the kingdom of God, and healed them that had need of healing.
And when the day began to wear away, then came the twelve, and said unto him, Send the multitude away, that they may go into the towns and country round about, and lodge, and get victuals: for we are here in a desert place.
But he said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they said, We have no more but five loaves and two fishes; except we should go and buy meat for all this people.
For they were about five thousand men. And he said to his disciples, Make them sit down by fifties in a company.
And they did so, and made them all sit down.
Then he took the five loaves and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed them, and brake, and gave to the disciples to set before the multitude.
And they did eat, and were all filled: and there was taken up of fragments that remained to them twelve baskets.
And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?
They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.
He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing; Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day. " Luke 9:1-22

So, they are "preaching the gospel." Later, they are charged not to reveal that He is "The Christ of God", and then they are told about the prophecy, the fact, of the impending death, burial, and resurrection, not its meaning, for:


"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31,32

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9

Peter tries to prevent the very death that, even according to the "one gospel brainwashees", is part of "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, i.e., "...Christ died for our sins...", that justifies us today. And none of the 12 even believed in the resurrection, part of "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, even after its prohecised ocurrence.


Same "the" gospel? Right. Good one.

According to the scriptures, they were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 at least prior to the dbr.


Provide scripture, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, or anybody, preached "I/He is going to die for your sins....be buried.....be raised again for your/our justification....believe on this and you will be saved...." Chapter and verse.

You cannot, and will not. Thus, "the gospel of the kingdom", which the 12 did preach in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since 1 Cor. 15:1-4 was not preached during this same time period, at least prior to the dbr. And thus, your "supporting walls"(premises) of your "argument" crumbles.


And this is, and has been, GLJCA's response:

"...We cannot tell..."(Mt. 21:27, Mark 11:33)
(continued)

2,Notice GLJCA continually quotes passages outside of Mt.-John, prior to the dbr. He cannot Provide scripture, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, or anybody, preached "I/He is going to die for your sins....be buried.....be raised again for your/our justification....believe on this and you will be saved...." Chapter and verse.

The one passage he quotes in John says nothing of the dbr-it says believe in Him=that He was the Christ. The 12 had "no clue" of the impending dbr-IT WAS HID FROM THEM. They were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

You assume the content of the faith required for justification is the same in all dispensations. And it was not. What was the content of faith required in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr?


"Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God." Mt. 14:33
"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Mt. 16:16
(comment: and with the 16:18 "upon this rock" statement by the Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour was setting the "foundation", i.e., the "rock", upon which the kingdom church, the "little flock" church(Luke 12:32 )would be built upon-their faith would rest upon the foundation that He was " the Christ, the Son of the living God.")
"And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ." Mark 8:29
"He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God." Luke 9:20
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." Jn. 1:12
"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did." Jn. 2:23
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Jn. 3:18
"And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world." Jn 4:42
"And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." Jn. 6:69
"She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world." Jn. 11:27
"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." Jn. 20:31

No change in the message in "early" Acts:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36
"And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." Acts 3:16
"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole." Acts 4:10
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12
"And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." Acts 4:42
"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:37

No change in the message by Paul, early in his ministry, before he was progressively/gradually(i.e., progressive revelation:Acts 9:9,16; 22:10,16,17("trance"); 26:16; 1 Cor. 11:23; 2 Cor. 12:1 ; Gal. 2:2; Eph. 3:3; Col. 1:25; "But now"-Romans 16:26, Eph. 2:13, Col. 1:26 / notice Paul spent 3 years in Arabia per Galatians 1:17,18! 3 years! I find this amazing! Could that be Mt. Sinai? ) given the revelation of the mystery, from the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ, from heaven(not earth),and the prophetic program was progressively/gradually(but temporarily) set aside:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God." Acts 9:20

"But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ." Acts 9:22

Notice the change in Acts 13:

Paul presents the "outline" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, the only gospel that will save in the current dispensation we are under :

Verse 13:28:"And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain." = the death of the Lord Jesus Christ

Verse 13:29: "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre."=the burial of the Lord Jesus Christ

Verse 13:30: "But God raised him from the dead:..." =the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ

And notice the gradual change in the message, as Paul boldly states:

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." Acts 13:38,39

No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this. No one.



In Christ,
John M. Whalen






Just where is the Lord Jesus Christ(or anyone) preaching anywhere in Mt.-John::

"I am going to die for your sins....be buried......and be raised again for your justification.....Believe this, and you will be saved."?

He was not, nor as anyone else. The gospel of the kingdom, which John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12 all preached, is not "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4.
 
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GLJCA

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The Gap:
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are dead*
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
And he closed the book,

and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

And he began to say unto them, This day [at this appointed season] is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

T
H
E

G
A
P

[The opening, again, of the Book]:
and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;


Isaiah 61
The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to the dead* ;
Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,

We agree on a lot of things but this is one where we will have to disagree. I would like to share with you why I do not believe there is a gap and why, I believe, the scripture you presented does not prove a 2000+ year gap.

1. The timing of Daniel 9 worked out to be a perfectly timed 69 weeks up to the Messiah.
Daniel 9:24-25 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Daniel says that the Messiah will be cut off AFTER the 69th week which logically would be during the 70th week.
2. Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dispensationalism teaches that there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week but there is no scriptural evidence of a 2000+ year gap.

The scripture that you presented was the beginning of the ministry of our Lord.
Luke 4:18-19 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Jesus closed the book because the time for the vengeance of our God had not come upon Israel as yet. It was coming but it was not time yet therefore Christ could not have read the rest of that verse at that time.

The day of vengeance came in AD70 when God sent the Roman general Titus and the Roman army which was composed of all the nations of the known world at that time and destroyed Israel, trampled down the temple, and scattered the Jews all over the world. If you read Josephus you will see that it was a tribulation worse than anything Israel had ever experience. Mother's ate their children to keep from starving, men swallowed their money to keep others from stealing it, once found out they were cut open and their money stolen anyway, Pigeon dung was being sold for food, 1.5 million were killed in the battle that ensued for Jerusalem, untold more were killed by other Jews during the siege. Many were captured and became slaves to those who had captured them.

All of this came about because of a promise that God had given Israel.
Lev 26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
That is why we see in the book of Revelation the seven vials of the wrath of God poured out upon Israel. We also see the seven plagues poured out upon them also, which were the same plagues poured out upon Egypt signifying that Israel had become like unto Egypt and Babylon to God.
Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

All of these plagues are poured out on the city of the seven mountains. Jerusalem was called the city of seven hills as was Rome. The great harlot in Revelation is speaking again of Jerusalem because of Israel whoredom with the world.
Hsa 1:2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, [departing] from the LORD.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

The book of Revelation is written to warn the Churches of the empending tribulation that they would experience because of Israel. The good always suffer with the bad. The tribulation that John said that he was partner with the churches was because of Nero Ceasar who persecuted the Christians and the Jews because he hated both. He would skewer Christians and Jews and dip them in tar and light them on fire to light up his parties.

In closing I have not seen any scriptual evidence for a 2000+ year gap between the 69th and 70th weeks. Expecially since the Lord was crucified in the 70th week.

GLJCA
 
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I asked:

Mc: Show us the gospel of the kingdom the Lord Jesus Christ preached, John The Baptist preached, the 12 preached,per the Lord Jesus Christ's orders in MATTHEW CHAPTER 10, prior to the dbr=1 Cor. 15:1-4.


TILT with the above response:

1. the gospel of the kingdom has no mention of the dbr:

Preaching "the" gospel of the kingdom/Peter(and Judas).... preached "the gospel of the kingdom":

"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, andJudas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:1-8


"....And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:7,8

"And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people." Matthew 4:23

"And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people." Matthew 9:35



"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was done by him: and he was perplexed, because that it was said of some, that John was risen from the dead;
And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again.
And Herod said, John have I beheaded: but who is this, of whom I hear such things? And he desired to see him.
And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.
And the people, when they knew it, followed him: and he received them, and spake unto them of the kingdom of God, and healed them that had need of healing.
And when the day began to wear away, then came the twelve, and said unto him, Send the multitude away, that they may go into the towns and country round about, and lodge, and get victuals: for we are here in a desert place.
But he said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they said, We have no more but five loaves and two fishes; except we should go and buy meat for all this people.
For they were about five thousand men. And he said to his disciples, Make them sit down by fifties in a company.
And they did so, and made them all sit down.
Then he took the five loaves and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed them, and brake, and gave to the disciples to set before the multitude.
And they did eat, and were all filled: and there was taken up of fragments that remained to them twelve baskets.
And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?
They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.
He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing; Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day. " Luke 9:1-22

So, they are "preaching the gospel." Later, they are charged not to reveal that He is "The Christ of God", and then they are told about the prophecy, the fact, of the impending death, burial, and resurrection, not its meaning, for:


"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31,32

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9

Peter tries to prevent the very death that, even according to the "one gospel brainwashees", is part of "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, i.e., "...Christ died for our sins...", that justifies us today. And none of the 12 even believed in the resurrection, part of "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, even after its prohecised ocurrence.


Same "the" gospel? Right. Good one.

According to the scriptures, they were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 at least prior to the dbr.


Provide scripture, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, or anybody, preached "I/He is going to die for your sins....be buried.....be raised again for your/our justification....believe on this and you will be saved...." Chapter and verse.

You cannot, and will not. Thus, "the gospel of the kingdom", which the 12 did preach in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since 1 Cor. 15:1-4 was not preached during this same time period, at least prior to the dbr. And thus, your "supporting walls"(premises) of your "argument" crumbles.


And this is, and has been, GLJCA's response:

"...We cannot tell..."(Mt. 21:27, Mark 11:33)
(continued)

2,Notice GLJCA continually quotes passages outside of Mt.-John, prior to the dbr. He cannot Provide scripture, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, or anybody, preached "I/He is going to die for your sins....be buried.....be raised again for your/our justification....believe on this and you will be saved...." Chapter and verse.

The one passage he quotes in John says nothing of the dbr-it says believe in Him=that He was the Christ. The 12 had "no clue" of the impending dbr-IT WAS HID FROM THEM. They were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

You assume the content of the faith required for justification is the same in all dispensations. And it was not. What was the content of faith required in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr?


"Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God." Mt. 14:33
"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Mt. 16:16
(comment: and with the 16:18 "upon this rock" statement by the Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour was setting the "foundation", i.e., the "rock", upon which the kingdom church, the "little flock" church(Luke 12:32 )would be built upon-their faith would rest upon the foundation that He was " the Christ, the Son of the living God.")
"And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ." Mark 8:29
"He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God." Luke 9:20
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." Jn. 1:12
"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did." Jn. 2:23
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Jn. 3:18
"And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world." Jn 4:42
"And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." Jn. 6:69
"She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world." Jn. 11:27
"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." Jn. 20:31

No change in the message in "early" Acts:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36
"And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." Acts 3:16
"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole." Acts 4:10
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12
"And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." Acts 4:42
"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:37

No change in the message by Paul, early in his ministry, before he was progressively/gradually(i.e., progressive revelation:Acts 9:9,16; 22:10,16,17("trance"); 26:16; 1 Cor. 11:23; 2 Cor. 12:1 ; Gal. 2:2; Eph. 3:3; Col. 1:25; "But now"-Romans 16:26, Eph. 2:13, Col. 1:26 / notice Paul spent 3 years in Arabia per Galatians 1:17,18! 3 years! I find this amazing! Could that be Mt. Sinai? ) given the revelation of the mystery, from the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ, from heaven(not earth),and the prophetic program was progressively/gradually(but temporarily) set aside:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God." Acts 9:20

"But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ." Acts 9:22

Notice the change in Acts 13:

Paul presents the "outline" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, the only gospel that will save in the current dispensation we are under :

Verse 13:28:"And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain." = the death of the Lord Jesus Christ

Verse 13:29: "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre."=the burial of the Lord Jesus Christ

Verse 13:30: "But God raised him from the dead:..." =the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ

And notice the gradual change in the message, as Paul boldly states:

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." Acts 13:38,39

No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this. No one.



In Christ,
John M. Whalen






Just where is the Lord Jesus Christ(or anyone) preaching anywhere in Mt.-John::

"I am going to die for your sins....be buried......and be raised again for your justification.....Believe this, and you will be saved."?

He was not, nor as anyone else. The gospel of the kingdom, which John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12 all preached, is not "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4.
Now THIS is how we are to study the Bible. Systematically, IN context and RIGHTLY divided. I know that more than one of us here really appreciates the time and effort that John puts into his posts....they are truly edifying to those who ARE in the Body of Christ.
 
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GLJCA

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I asked,
So by what you are saying, you believe that before the DBR there was a diffferent gospel but after the DBR there was only one gospel that all of the disciples preached, right?

you answered,
Preaching "the" gospel of the kingdom/Peter(and Judas).... preached "the gospel of the kingdom":

You can not deal with the scriptures that I gave you because they show that after the DBR Peter preached the same message that Paul preached to the same people. I have shown the scriptures over and over and not once have you dealt with them. I would assume from that you can't deal with them. EPH refuses to deal with the fact that Paul's message that he preached was the same message that Peter preached.

Your whole argument lies in the fact that before the DBR the death burial and resurrection was not preached as a way of justification. Well neither was it preached that way in 1Cor 15:1-4. There was no mention of justification in 1Cor 15:1-4. Therefore using your logic justification was not preached there either.

This is really such a silly discussion. You have been shown that Jesus told His disciples what to preach in Luke 24:46-47 and Peter preached the same thing in Acts 2, and Paul preached it in Acts 26:20, and you just refuse to admit it. Peter and Paul preached the same message. In all of their sermons they brought out the dbr and showed that Jesus Christ was the Messiah.

You know why your argument is so silly is that during Paul's second missionary journey he was wrote the letter of First Corinthians from Ephesus. This is found in Acts 18 & 19. You can see that Apollos came to Corinth in chapter 19 that brought on the problem that Paul had to deal with in 1Cor 1:12 and 3:4.

You are using letters that Paul wrote while the book of Acts was being played out to prove that there are two gospels. There wasn't two gospels then and there aren't two gospels now.

Rightly dividing the Word of God is also knowing the time frame that it was written. A study of the Word would have alerted you of your error.

GLJCA
 
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GLJCA

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Now THIS is how we are to study the Bible. Systematically, IN context and RIGHTLY divided. I know that more than one of us here really appreciates the time and effort that John puts into his posts....they are truly edifying to those who ARE in the Body of Christ.

Yes now let's see. You and John state that you are taking your belief concerning Paul's gospel from 1Cor 15, which Paul wrote while he was in Ephesus on his second Missionary journey which was recorded in Acts 18 & 19. You are saying that what Paul wrote in Acts 26:20 doesn't apply to you even though he wrote the letter that you say does apply to you in Acts 18.

That makes a lot of sense, doesn't it. Boy that is rightly dividing the Word.

GLJCA
 
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GLJCA

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Have you wondered why Paul preached the kingdom of God to the Christians in Ephesus in Acts 20 while he was writing the letter to the Corinthians in Acts 18 where you say he preached another gospel that is different from the kingdom gospel?

According to you he is telling the Gentile Christians at Corinth in his letter something completely different than he is preaching to the Gentile Christians at Ephesus in person at the same time. You know this is all recorded historically. You find out all kinds of things when you study the Word of God.

GLJCA
 
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GLJCA

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I guess this revelation was a little too much for you, huh EPH? Here I will record it again in case you missed it.

Paul wrote the first letter to the Corinthians while he was preaching the kingdom of God in Ephesus in Acts 18-20. He wrote the letter that you say proves that his gospel is different while he was preaching the kingdom of God to the Gentiles in Ephesus.
Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Does this make you wonder where else your right dividing of the Word has led to error?

GLJCA
 
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eph3Nine

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I guess this revelation was a little too much for you, huh EPH? Here I will record it again in case you missed it.

Paul wrote the first letter to the Corinthians while he was preaching the kingdom of God in Ephesus in Acts 18-20. He wrote the letter that you say proves that his gospel is different while he was preaching the kingdom of God to the Gentiles in Ephesus.
Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Does this make you wonder where else your right dividing of the Word has led to error?

GLJCA
Oh dont worry....Im letting Biblebeliever or Whalen cover this one! Trust me, its not an error at all and I have confidence in the answer they will provide you. So , never fear....Im standing firm. :)
 
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GLJCA

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Oh dont worry....Im letting Biblebeliever or Whalen cover this one! Trust me, its not an error at all and I have confidence in the answer they will provide you. So , never fear....Im standing firm. :)
I figured that you would!!! You usually do when you don't have an answer.

GLJCA
 
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eph3Nine

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I figured that you would!!! You usually do when you don't have an answer.

GLJCA
I dont believe that was called for, now do you? I didnt say I didnt have an answer. Do you not think I have heard every possible argument that can possibly be given about a hundred times or so??? LOL...yep, I have heard em all.

I happen to believe in working TOGETHER as a BODY. I also happen to be short on time and a very busy person. I have a LIFE...gasp...yes a real one aside from this forum.

So....be patient. Not that you will like the answer you get, but hey, what else is new, right? :)
 
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Yes now let's see. You and John state that you are taking your belief concerning Paul's gospel from 1Cor 15, which Paul wrote while he was in Ephesus on his second Missionary journey which was recorded in Acts 18 & 19. You are saying that what Paul wrote in Acts 26:20 doesn't apply to you even though he wrote the letter that you say does apply to you in Acts 18.

That makes a lot of sense, doesn't it. Boy that is rightly dividing the Word.
___________
"makes a lot of sense"

GLJCA says that the Lord Jesus Christ preached in Mt.-John, prior to the dbr:


"I will die for your sins, crucify me, I will will be raised, believe it and be saved. Go preach this."


GLJCA says that the 12 preached in Mt.-John, prior to the dbr:

"He will die for our sins, be crucified, will be raised, believe this and be saved. This is what we all are preaching, even though the dbr is hid from us, even though we will not believe the resurrection even after it happens, and Peter, our leader, will try to prevent the Master's death......."

"The" gospel of the kingdom="the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4? Right.

Good one, GLJCA. The comedy act of REPPYS rolls on.

In Christ,
John
 
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I asked,


you answered,


You can not deal with the scriptures that I gave you because they show that after the DBR Peter preached the same message that Paul preached to the same people. I have shown the scriptures over and over and not once have you dealt with them. I would assume from that you can't deal with them. EPH refuses to deal with the fact that Paul's message that he preached was the same message that Peter preached.

Your whole argument lies in the fact that before the DBR the death burial and resurrection was not preached as a way of justification. Well neither was it preached that way in 1Cor 15:1-4. There was no mention of justification in 1Cor 15:1-4. Therefore using your logic justification was not preached there either.

This is really such a silly discussion. You have been shown that Jesus told His disciples what to preach in Luke 24:46-47 and Peter preached the same thing in Acts 2, and Paul preached it in Acts 26:20, and you just refuse to admit it. Peter and Paul preached the same message. In all of their sermons they brought out the dbr and showed that Jesus Christ was the Messiah.

You know why your argument is so silly is that during Paul's second missionary journey he was wrote the letter of First Corinthians from Ephesus. This is found in Acts 18 & 19. You can see that Apollos came to Corinth in chapter 19 that brought on the problem that Paul had to deal with in 1Cor 1:12 and 3:4.

You are using letters that Paul wrote while the book of Acts was being played out to prove that there are two gospels. There wasn't two gospels then and there aren't two gospels now.

Rightly dividing the Word of God is also knowing the time frame that it was written. A study of the Word would have alerted you of your error.

GLJCA

______________

Mc:As I suspected, no scripture is provided prior to the dbr, where ANYONE preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 as a basis for justification, while John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12 ALL PREACHED the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, "the" gospel of the kingdom is not equivalent to "the" gospel of 1 Cor.

"You can not deal with the scriptures that I gave you because they show that after the DBR Peter preached the same message that Paul preached to the same people. I have shown the scriptures over and over and not once have you dealt with them. " -GJCLA

Mc:I methodically dismantled your "argument", picked it apart. The gospel of the kingdom i-s not equivalent to the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 "the" gospel. And thus, there is more than one "the" gospel, and thus, you are in no position to DISCERN whether Paul and Peter preached the same "the" gospel in early Acts, since you are unable spiritually to make this assessment Acts 8:30?
Kids need constant repetition.


I have not addressed that issue(as yet). The only issue I am addressing with you, REPPY, is the crux of the issue: is there more than one "the" gospel, i.e., is your "argument" credible that the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4. And I dismantled it with scripture. No one was preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, AT LEAST PRIOR to the dbr ,as a basis for justification, while John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12 were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, they are not the same, and scripture refutes you. And no amount of scripture evidencing any argument,mine or anyone else's, supporting that only Paul was, after the dbr, preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, and not the 12, would be profitable, and would not convince anyone who cannot distinguish the difference between the gospel of the kingdom and 1 Cor. 15:1-4. If one cannot see prior to the dbr what the gospel of the kingdom is, such as yourself, than no amount of scriptural evidence after the dbr can persuade this person after the dbr who holds to the mindset of the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4="homogeneous" "the" gospel. And why? No discernment is possible, since this person thinks "gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4", and must conclude that "they all preached the same thing." Acts 8:30? No.



1. the gospel of the kingdom has no mention of the dbr:

Preaching "the" gospel of the kingdom/Peter(and Judas).... preached "the gospel of the kingdom":

"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, andJudas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:1-8


"....And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:7,8

"And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people." Matthew 4:23

"And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people." Matthew 9:35



"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was done by him: and he was perplexed, because that it was said of some, that John was risen from the dead;
And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again.
And Herod said, John have I beheaded: but who is this, of whom I hear such things? And he desired to see him.
And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.
And the people, when they knew it, followed him: and he received them, and spake unto them of the kingdom of God, and healed them that had need of healing.
And when the day began to wear away, then came the twelve, and said unto him, Send the multitude away, that they may go into the towns and country round about, and lodge, and get victuals: for we are here in a desert place.
But he said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they said, We have no more but five loaves and two fishes; except we should go and buy meat for all this people.
For they were about five thousand men. And he said to his disciples, Make them sit down by fifties in a company.
And they did so, and made them all sit down.
Then he took the five loaves and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed them, and brake, and gave to the disciples to set before the multitude.
And they did eat, and were all filled: and there was taken up of fragments that remained to them twelve baskets.
And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?
They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.
He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing; Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day. " Luke 9:1-22

So, they are "preaching the gospel." Later, they are charged not to reveal that He is "The Christ of God", and then they are told about the prophecy, the fact, of the impending death, burial, and resurrection, not its meaning, for:


"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31,32

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9

Peter tries to prevent the very death that, even according to the "one gospel brainwashees", is part of "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, i.e., "...Christ died for our sins...", that justifies us today. And none of the 12 even believed in the resurrection, part of "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, even after its prohecised ocurrence.


Same "the" gospel? Right. Good one.

According to the scriptures, they were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 at least prior to the dbr.

(continued)
 
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JMWHALEN

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(continued)
Provide scripture, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, or anybody, preached "I/He is going to die for your sins....be buried.....be raised again for your/our justification....believe on this and you will be saved...." Chapter and verse.

You cannot, and will not. Thus, "the gospel of the kingdom", which the 12 did preach in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since 1 Cor. 15:1-4 was not preached during this same time period, at least prior to the dbr. And thus, your "supporting walls"(premises) of your "argument" crumbles.


And this is, and has been, GLJCA's response:

"...We cannot tell..."(Mt. 21:27, Mark 11:33)
(continued)

2,Notice GLJCA continually quotes passages outside of Mt.-John, prior to the dbr. He cannot Provide scripture, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, or anybody, preached "I/He is going to die for your sins....be buried.....be raised again for your/our justification....believe on this and you will be saved...." Chapter and verse.

The one passage he quotes in John says nothing of the dbr-it says believe in Him=that He was the Christ. The 12 had "no clue" of the impending dbr-IT WAS HID FROM THEM. They were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

You assume the content of the faith required for justification is the same in all dispensations. And it was not. What was the content of faith required in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr?


"Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God." Mt. 14:33
"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Mt. 16:16
(comment: and with the 16:18 "upon this rock" statement by the Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour was setting the "foundation", i.e., the "rock", upon which the kingdom church, the "little flock" church(Luke 12:32 )would be built upon-their faith would rest upon the foundation that He was " the Christ, the Son of the living God.")
"And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ." Mark 8:29
"He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God." Luke 9:20
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." Jn. 1:12
"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did." Jn. 2:23
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Jn. 3:18
"And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world." Jn 4:42
"And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." Jn. 6:69
"She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world." Jn. 11:27
"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." Jn. 20:31

No change in the message in "early" Acts:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36
"And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." Acts 3:16
"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole." Acts 4:10
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12
"And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." Acts 4:42
"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:37

No change in the message by Paul, early in his ministry, before he was progressively/gradually(i.e., progressive revelation:Acts 9:9,16; 22:10,16,17("trance"); 26:16; 1 Cor. 11:23; 2 Cor. 12:1 ; Gal. 2:2; Eph. 3:3; Col. 1:25; "But now"-Romans 16:26, Eph. 2:13, Col. 1:26 / notice Paul spent 3 years in Arabia per Galatians 1:17,18! 3 years! I find this amazing! Could that be Mt. Sinai? ) given the revelation of the mystery, from the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ, from heaven(not earth),and the prophetic program was progressively/gradually(but temporarily) set aside:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God." Acts 9:20

"But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ." Acts 9:22

Notice the change in Acts 13:

Paul presents the "outline" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, the only gospel that will save in the current dispensation we are under :

Verse 13:28:"And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain." = the death of the Lord Jesus Christ

Verse 13:29: "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre."=the burial of the Lord Jesus Christ

Verse 13:30: "But God raised him from the dead:..." =the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ

And notice the gradual change in the message, as Paul boldly states:

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." Acts 13:38,39

No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this. No one.


Just where is the Lord Jesus Christ(or anyone) preaching anywhere in Mt.-John::

"I am going to die for your sins....be buried......and be raised again for your justification.....Believe this, and you will be saved."?

He was not, nor as anyone else. The gospel of the kingdom, which John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12 all preached, is not "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

In Christ,
John
 
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GLJCA

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Hey John you have not answered my question. Are you now saying that after the DBR both Peter and Paul preached the same gospel?

It is a simple question that I have asked several times and I still have not gotten an answer from you. I am just trying to understand if you are standing with EPH or not.

GLJCA
 
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eph3Nine

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Hey John you have not answered my question. Are you now saying that after the DBR both Peter and Paul preached the same gospel?

It is a simple question that I have asked several times and I still have not gotten an answer from you. I am just trying to understand if you are standing with EPH or not.

GLJCA
After the dbr of Christ, Peter agreed at the Jerusalem Council to continue preaching to the "jews ONLY" and that Paul would go to the nations (gentiles). For proof , go to the Jerusalem council and read that THEY (Peter and the boys) PERCEIVED the grace that was given to Paul and ACKNOWLEDGED that it was indeed different from what they preached. If it was the same thing, Paul would not have had to meet with them to TELL THEM WHAT gospel he was preaching, now would he?????

By the way...I dont see any rule that says we, any of us, must respond by DEMAND to any post of yours or anyone elses! So stop bein so danged PUSHY and offensive...geeesh

Peter NEVER preached the MYSTERY...he wasnt commissioned to do so.
 
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