Heres a LIST of the DIFFERENCES between Peters gospel and Pauls; two gospels.

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eph3Nine

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1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
(I referring to Paul)

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
(I referring to Paul ...preached)

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
(I referring to Paul...delivierd....received)

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Now in verses following, the witnesses of the resurrection.
1 Corinthians 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

(WE refers to all the witnesses of the resurrection. THE "we" does not refer to verses 1,2,3,4.) Basic english.

Peter did not preach the resurrection for OUR JUSTIFICATION. If so where is it???

THe death, burial, and resurrection as the gospel of our salvation was given to Paul....we believe that good news and God saves us by grace through faith apart from works.

Peter preached repent and be baptized for the remission of sins....that was the kingdom gospel. DIFFERENT!

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, (and this term was used ONLY by Paul and NEVER by Peter)
who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Absolutely correct, BB. Amazing how people will twist the scriptures to suit their own personal doctrine and NOT the doctrine given to us by the RISEN Christ thru Paul...tsk tsk tsk
 
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GLJCA

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Peter NEVER preached the death, burial and resurrection as the gospel of Israels salvation...NOT ONCE.

Where are you getting this info? You must have missed the majority of what Peter preached in Acts 2.

Acts 2: 23-24 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Here Peter brought out the fact that Christ was crucified, buried, and resurrected in his sermon to the Jews. Then when they asked him what they should do he told them the same thing that Paul told the Jew and the Gentile.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Here is what Paul told the Jews and the Gentiles to whom he preached.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Are you not accepting what the Word of God says that Peter and Paul both preached? Can you comment on these scriptures?

GLJCA
 
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GLJCA

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1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
(I referring to Paul ...preached)

Do ya'll believe that there are conditions on salvation like Paul preached here?

GLJCA
 
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eph3Nine

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Where are you getting this info? You must have missed the majority of what Peter preached in Acts 2.

Acts 2: 23-24 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Here Peter brought out the fact that Christ was crucified, buried, and resurrected in his sermon to the Jews. Then when they asked him what they should do he told them the same thing that Paul told the Jew and the Gentile.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Here is what Paul told the Jews and the Gentiles to whom he preached.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Are you not accepting what the Word of God says that Peter and Paul both preached? Can you comment on these scriptures?

GLJCA
Already HAVE, many times...and you just keep rejecting the truth.

Acts 2:38 was indeed the gospel from Peter...repent (as to who your prophesied MESSIAH is) and be water baptized for the remission of your sins.

I dont see any death burial and resurrection being offered for their justification...in fact , Peter never used the word with relation to Israels salvation.

YOU are maintaining that water baptism, which was a REQUIREMENT for the NATION OF PRIESTS who are identified in scripture as LITERAL ISRAEL, is required of us as well, And THAT contradicts the ONE baptism of Eph 4:5.

We are baptized into his DEATH, and raised to walk with Him in newness of life. NO WATER there, bud.

So...to answer your question...NO, I wont discuss those scriptures with you because they have BEEN discussed over and over. WE have presented the Bibles side, rightly divided, and you have done nothing more than to try and drag us back into a LAW SYSTEM which has a CURSE associated with it.

Lets let everyone who SEES this distinction pick which one they want, shall we?

GRACE, or a curse? Hmmmm...gee thats a hard one. :)
 
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eph3Nine

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Do ya'll believe that there are conditions on salvation like Paul preached here?

GLJCA
NO conditions on salvation....only in Israels program. But of course you will take this and run with it....LOL
 
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GLJCA

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1 Corinthians 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

(WE refers to all the witnesses of the resurrection. THE "we" does not refer to verses 1,2,3,4.) Basic english.

Peter did not preach the resurrection for OUR JUSTIFICATION. If so where is it???

Reading the passage in context the "we" is talking about Peter and the rest of the disciples in the above verses. Paul was saying that all of the apostles preached the same message, which was shown in verses 1-4.

Peter preached repent and be baptized for the remission of sins....that was the kingdom gospel. DIFFERENT!

I have shown above that Peter preached the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus in Acts 2. Where do ya'll get the info that you are asserting?

Here Peter speaks of the death and burial.

Acts 2: 23-24 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Here Peter preaches again about the resurrection.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Next Peter preaches about the position that Christ holds today.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Peter then instructs them on what to do to be saved.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter preached the death, burial and resurrection in Acts 2.
Paul preached the death, burial, and resurrection in 1Cor 15:1-4
Peter preached repentance and remission of sins in Acts 2:38.
Paul preached repentance and remission of sins Acts 20:21 & 26:20.

Apparently since Peter mentions baptism in Acts 2:38 and Paul doesn't in 1Cor 15:1-4, you have come up with the idea that the gospels are different.

It is easy to create a new belief if you pick and choose the scriptures you want to believe, but you will always have contradiction. I really don't think ya'll believe that the Bible contradicts itself but that is what you are teaching.

GLJCA
 
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GLJCA

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I dont see any death burial and resurrection being offered for their justification...in fact , Peter never used the word with relation to Israels salvation.

YOU are maintaining that water baptism, which was a REQUIREMENT for the NATION OF PRIESTS who are identified in scripture as LITERAL ISRAEL, is required of us as well, And THAT contradicts the ONE baptism of Eph 4:5.

Oh so because Peter doesn't use justification in his sermon to the Jews in Acts 2, his gospel is different than Paul's? Is that what you are saying?

Please pick out the word justification in 1Cor 15:1-4?

You are picking a bunch of scriptures out of different places that are lacking things that other scriptures contain and are maintaining that the gospel is different.

That type of interpretation can maintain just about anything you want and make scripture support it.
Acts 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Luk 10:37 .....Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

By using the same method of interpretation I could justify hanging myself. I know this idea is silly but so is the ideas that are coming from you guys.

GLJCA
 
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GLJCA

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YOU are maintaining that water baptism, which was a REQUIREMENT for the NATION OF PRIESTS who are identified in scripture as LITERAL ISRAEL, is required of us as well, And THAT contradicts the ONE baptism of Eph 4:5.

Noo it doesn't. The one baptism in Eph 4:5 is speaking of water baptism. There is only one baptism that we are commanded to do in scripture. There is only one baptism that we see throughout the New Testament. There is only one way that Paul baptized the people in Corinth and all of the other places that he went.

I am maintaining that baptism is the sign of being in covenant with God. You are maintaining that there is but one baptism (spirit baptism) but never in history has God required a inward sign without also requiring an outward sign. Can you show me a scripture where anyone tells us that we don't have to be water baptized?

God required physical outward circumcision in the OT as a sign of covenant membership.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

He also upbraided the Jews for not being circumcized in their hearts to God.
Deu 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

God requires water baptism in the NT but he also requires spirit baptism.
Col 2:11-12 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Paul brings out here that water baptism is the circumcision of Christ which has always been linked with covenant membership.

Peter preached that through baptism we receive the remission of sins. How could he say that? Because the only way to receive remission of sins is by being in covenant with God and the only way to be in covenant with God is to believe and be baptized. It has always been that way and there is no where that we see that God changed it.

Passover was a blood ceremony that was replaced by a non bloody ceremony the Lord's Supper because the Passover was a shadow of what was to come, Christ.

Circumcision was a cermony that involved the shedding of blood. At the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ that passed away and was replaced with a non bloody cermony, baptism.

Your confusion over baptism is because of Dispensationalisms treating the bible like a patchwork quilt instead of looking at it like a seamless garment.

God has had a plan throughout eternity. God chose me before the foundation of the world therefore God has always planned for me being one of His people.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
GLJCA
 
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GLJCA

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So...to answer your question...NO, I wont discuss those scriptures with you because they have BEEN discussed over and over. WE have presented the Bibles side, rightly divided, and you have done nothing more than to try and drag us back into a LAW SYSTEM which has a CURSE associated with it.

I beg to differ with you. Those scriptures have never been discussed. All John was interested in was before the DBR and he would not deal with the scriptures I presented. You at the same time don't deal with anyone else's verses.

All I am asking is why Paul would say that he preached something that you say he didn't preach?

What do you have to lose?

GLJCA
 
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JMWHALEN

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You cannot have a resurrection without a death & a burial. A basic use of common sense. Plus, as I stated before, you're ignoring the entire context. You do the very thing you accuse me of doing. How's that for irony? Paul doesn't mean just the resurrection. He includes the death, burial, and resurrection & he goes on to say that "this is what we preach." Now, if you want to limit "this is what we preach" soley to the preaching of the resurrection, then you would have to limit Paul's preaching to just the resurrection since Paul states that he preached the same thing as they. "This is what WE preach." Your "argument" proves too much.





According to 1 Corinthians 15:11, Peter (and the rest of the apostles) all preached the same thing. If you want even more evidence, fine. I'll grant your request, but I doubt you're going to accept it. You're just going to find some other way to wiggle out of it. But, here it goes. According to Luke 24:46,47 it was necessary for...
"Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day"

so that...
"repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
This is the gospel of remission of sins on the basis of Christ's death. This commission, along with the records in Matthew 28:19,20 and Mark 16:15, 16, is the one proclaimed by the Twelve. So when the Twelve, in the early part of Acts, were working under the commission recorded in the gospels, they were proclaiming salvation on the merits of Christ's death.



Salvation was never by works. No one will be in Heaven by their own merits. The same gospel was preached by the apostles. From Peter to Paul. Same gospel, different parties. There's only one gospel (Gal. 1). Any other isn't a gospel at all. So, that right there tells you that if Peter had "another gospel," it wasn't a gospel at all & Peter would be eternally condemned.



Amazingly, Paul preached the good news of the kingdom of God & baptized. See? Same exact gospel. (Acts 14:22, Acts 19:8, Acts 28:23, 31, Acts 16:33, Acts 18:8, Acts 19:5, 1 Cor. 1:16).

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner
__________-

"According to Luke 24:46,47 it was necessary for...

"Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day" -sojourner


According to the scriptures, the 12, while preaching "the" gospel of the kingdom, had no idea of the impending prophecised fact of "Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day", and its meaning :

"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31,32

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9



According to the scriptures, they were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 at least prior to the dbr. Therefore, the gospel of the kingdom is not 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

"This is the gospel of remission of sins on the basis of Christ's death. This commission, along with the records in Matthew 28:19,20 and Mark 16:15, 16, is the one proclaimed by the Twelve." -sojourner

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Mt. 28:18,19

Mc: Tell us , sojourner. Are you following the above command? Sold your home yet? Tithed? Shown yourself to a priest? = all things whatsoever I have commanded you"? No.

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15-16

Tell us , sojourner, is "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" "the" gospel, "the" good news, we are to preach today? Go on record. Let's go. No spin, here. Perhaps you coveniently left out:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen." Mark 16:17-20

Are the above signs, namely "cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover", following you? It does not say "may"-it says "shall." Watch the spin, and the intellectual dishonesty in his response as to why these signs do not follow him. Watch.



Provide scripture, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, or anybody, preached "I/He is going to die for your sins....be buried.....be raised again for your/our justification....believe on this and you will be saved...." Chapter and verse.

You cannot, and will not. Thus, "the gospel of the kingdom", which the 12 did preach in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since 1 Cor. 15:1-4 was not preached during this same time period, at least prior to the dbr. And thus, your "supporting walls"(premises) of your "argument" crumbles.

Just where is the Lord Jesus Christ(or anyone) preaching anywhere in Mt.-John::

"I am going to die for your sins....be buried......and be raised again for your justification.....Believe this, and you will be saved."?

He was not, nor as anyone else. The gospel of the kingdom, which John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12 all preached, is not "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

And this is, and has been, sojourner's response:

"...We cannot tell..."(Mt. 21:27, Mark 11:33)


You assume the content of the faith required for justification is the same in all dispensations. And it was not. What was the content of faith required in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr?


"Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God." Mt. 14:33
"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Mt. 16:16
(comment: and with the 16:18 "upon this rock" statement by the Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour was setting the "foundation", i.e., the "rock", upon which the kingdom church, the "little flock" church(Luke 12:32 )would be built upon-their faith would rest upon the foundation that He was " the Christ, the Son of the living God.")
"And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ." Mark 8:29
"He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God." Luke 9:20
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." Jn. 1:12
"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did." Jn. 2:23
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Jn. 3:18
"And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world." Jn 4:42
"And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." Jn. 6:69
"She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world." Jn. 11:27
"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." Jn. 20:31

No change in the message in "early" Acts:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36
"And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." Acts 3:16
"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole." Acts 4:10
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12
"And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." Acts 4:42
"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:37

No change in the message by Paul, early in his ministry, before he was progressively/gradually(i.e., progressive revelation:Acts 9:9,16; 22:10,16,17("trance"); 26:16; 1 Cor. 11:23; 2 Cor. 12:1 ; Gal. 2:2; Eph. 3:3; Col. 1:25; "But now"-Romans 16:26, Eph. 2:13, Col. 1:26 / notice Paul spent 3 years in Arabia per Galatians 1:17,18! 3 years! I find this amazing! Could that be Mt. Sinai? ) given the revelation of the mystery, from the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ, from heaven(not earth),and the prophetic program was progressively/gradually(but temporarily) set aside:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God." Acts 9:20

"But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ." Acts 9:22

Notice the change in Acts 13:

Paul presents the "outline" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, the only gospel that will save in the current dispensation we are under :

Verse 13:28:"And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain." = the death of the Lord Jesus Christ

Verse 13:29: "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre."=the burial of the Lord Jesus Christ

Verse 13:30: "But God raised him from the dead:..." =the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ

And notice the gradual change in the message, as Paul boldly states:

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." Acts 13:38,39

No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this. Not one.

In Christ,
John M. Whalen
 
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s0journ3r

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According to the scriptures, the 12, while preaching "the" gospel of the kingdom, had no idea of the impending prophecised fact of "Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day", and its meaning.

They were given the secrets of the kingdom of God. Their understanding of Jesus' mission was progressive. They thought - as the other Jews - that Jesus was going to come to establish His earthly rule. But, that wasn't why He came. In fact, the Bible says:
Matthew 16:21 :: From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.
Also, Jesus told them:
Matthew 26:24 :: "The Son of Man goes as it is written of him."
He also said:
Luke 18:31 :: "See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be accomplished."
After Jesus rose again, the disciples understood exactly why He came & what the Scriptures have said regarding His first coming - which was to suffer & die for the remission of sins (justification).
Jesus said:
Luke 24:44-48 :: "These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things."
And this is what they preached (1 Corinthians 15:11) to everyone. Jew & Gentile alike.

According to the scriptures, they were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 at least prior to the dbr. Therefore, the gospel of the kingdom is not 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

Their knowledge was progressive. As they grew in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ they came to know that the kingdom Jesus was speaking of wasn't a literal, physical rule over national Israel at that time. Rather, it was a spiritual rule over the lives of those who believe the Gospel & become a new people who receive the kingdom and bear its fruit (Matthew 21:43). Once Jesus opened up their understanding of the Scriptures, they understood & preached that through Jesus' death & shed blood...remission of sins is possible. Same gospel. Compare it for yourself:
Luke 24 :: "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things."
VS
1 Cor. 15 :: "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. ... Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed."
Tell us , sojourner. Are you following the above command? Sold your home yet? Tithed? Shown yourself to a priest? = all things whatsoever I have commanded you"? No.

That's not it at all. The apostles tell you what Jesus commanded them to do:
Acts 10:42 :: "And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead."

Mark 16:15 :: And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation."

John 20:21 :: Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you."

However, if the Lord tells me to leave my family, house, job, whatever...I pray I would be obedient and do that. However, even the apostles didn't interpret such commands as applicable to them since they had homes of their own.
Matthew 8:14 :: And when Jesus entered Peter's house, he saw his mother-in-law lying sick with a fever.

Acts 8:3 :: But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison.

As for paying my tithes, I do. And as for showing myself to a priest? No need. Jesus is my High Priest. He sees me just as I am.
Hebrews 4:13 :: And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Tell us , sojourner, is "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" "the" gospel, "the" good news, we are to preach today? Go on record. Let's go. No spin, here.

Absolutely.

Perhaps you coveniently left out:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen." Mark 16:17-20

Are the above signs, namely "cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover", following you? It does not say "may"-it says "shall." Watch the spin, and the intellectual dishonesty in his response as to why these signs do not follow him. Watch.

The text says the signs will follow those who believe. I speak with tongues, if you must know. I haven't come into contact with any snakes...but, I've no doubt that if one were to bite me God will take care of me. Same thing with poison. To my knowledge, I haven't drank any...if I have, obviously God took care of me for I don't even remember ever doing it or getting sick as a result of it. See, I don't have to "spin" because I believe God is still God. He hasn't changed. The same Holy Spirit that indwelt the apostles of our Lord is the same Holy Spirit indwelling believers today.

Just where is the Lord Jesus Christ(or anyone) preaching anywhere in Mt.-John::

"I am going to die for your sins....be buried......and be raised again for your justification.....Believe this, and you will be saved."?

You have to read the entire Bible. The four Gospel's were written after the death, burial, and resurrection. And it was written by the apostles who all taught the same gospel (1 Cor. 15:11). If you're having trouble seeing the plan of God inside the Gospel's, try reading them backwards. Try placing the NT books in their original order (i.e., chronologically) and read them like that. It might help you realize that the Bible is united in telling the whole story of our Savior. You cannot limit Scripture to the four Gospel's alone. I keep telling you this. But, to no avail. So, for the sake of those reading this...please don't make the same mistake that JMWHALEN makes. Search all of Scripture. Read all of it. You'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

He was not, nor as anyone else. The gospel of the kingdom, which John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12 all preached, is not "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

Paul himself preached the kingdom message. It's the same gospel. (Acts 14:22, Acts 19:8, Acts 20:25, Acts 28:23, Acts 28:31, Romans 14:17, 1 Cor. 4:20, 1 Cor. 6:9-10, 1 Cor. 15:24, 1 Cor. 15:50, Gal. 5:21, Ephesians 5:5, Col. 1:13, Col. 4:11, 1 Thess. 2:12, 2 Thess. 1:5, 2 Tim. 4:1, and 2 Tim. 4:18)

And this is, and has been, sojourner's response:

"...We cannot tell..."(Mt. 21:27, Mark 11:33)

No, that's not my response at all. That was the response of the chief priests and the elders of the people when they tried to question the authority of Jesus.

You assume the content of the faith required for justification is the same in all dispensations. And it was not. What was the content of faith required in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr?

There you go again. Commiting the same fallacy. **sighs**

Paul presents the "outline" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, the only gospel that will save in the current dispensation we are under :

Verse 13:28:"And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain." = the death of the Lord Jesus Christ

Verse 13:29: "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre."=the burial of the Lord Jesus Christ

Verse 13:30: "But God raised him from the dead:..." =the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ

And notice the gradual change in the message, as Paul boldly states:

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." Acts 13:38,39

No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this. Not one.

I'll re-type what I typed at the beginning of this post & allow the readers to decide for themselves whether or not your claims have merit.
Luke 24 :: "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things."
VS
1 Cor. 15 :: "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. ... Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed."
Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner
 
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GLJCA

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"The one baptism in Eph 4:5 is speaking of water baptism."-REPPY

Mc: Nope=spiritual baptism. . The Holy Spirit is the Baptizer( not the Lord Jesus Christ, who was the Baptizer in early Acts- baptized "with the Holy Ghost"), whereby The Holy Spirit identifies us into the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, as we become united, identified with him in His death, burial. and resurrection. When He died, I died; when He was buried, I was buried; when He rose again, I rose again=change in status, condition through IDENTIFICATION/UNION..

The concept of baptism: the act of identifying one thing with another, resulting in a permanent change in condition, status/to cause to be or become identical, to conceive as united(as in spirit,outlook, or principle)/ identification=a process by which a person ascribes himself the qualities and characteritics of another person.

"I am maintaining that baptism is the sign of being in covenant with God. You are maintaining that there is but one baptism (spirit baptism) but never in history has God required a inward sign without also requiring an outward sign. Can you show me a scripture where anyone tells us that we don't have to be water baptized?"-REPPY

Mc: In the dispensation of the grace of God we are in, Eph. 4:5-one baptism=spiritual.


God required physical outward circumcision in the OT as a sign of covenant membership." -REPPY


Mc: Where females in this "covenant membership?" Females were baptized, were they not?

"Paul brings out here that water baptism is the circumcision of Christ which has always been linked with covenant membership." -REPPY

Mc: What "circumcision of Christ" is Col. 2:11-12 referencing? Answer: The Lord Jesus Christ was spiritually circumcised at the cross.



In Christ and with Christ,
John
Prove to me scripturally that Eph 4:5 is speaking of water baptism? You can't do it. That is just another one of your MAD beliefs that are unprovable.

We are commanded to be water baptized. Never are we commanded to be baptized in the spirit, the Lord does that himself.

Again you confuse the issue because you are wrongly dividing the Word of God.

Baptism is the outward sign of Christ's ownership of us just like circumcision was in the OT. It is showing us that we are placed into the covenant people of God. The parallels of baptism and circumcision are undeniable. One only has to study to show himself approved instead of just accepting what someone else tells him.

Hey just one question. As a Reppy what exactly am I replacing? Isn't that accusation saying that I am replacing Israel in the kingdom?

Didn't the Lord tell Israel that the Kingdom would be taken from them?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Didn't Paul tells us that when we believe that we are translated into the Kingdom of Christ?
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Didn't Paul also tell us that we who believe are grafted into the olive tree where unbelieving Israel was cut out?
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Didn't Paul also tells us that we are adopted Children of God?
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

I am honored to be called a Reppy. Unbelieving Israel was cut out of the covenant people of God and believers in Christ were grafted in. When Israel believes on Christ they will be grafted back in and we will be one big happy family. There will not be a divided Kingdom.


GLJCA
 
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JMWHALEN

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"Prove to me scripturally that Eph 4:5 is speaking of water baptism? You can't do it. That is just another one of your MAD beliefs that are unprovable. "-GLJCA

"We are commanded to be water baptized. Never are we commanded to be baptized in the spirit, the Lord does that himself." -GLJCA
__________-
part 1:

Mc: The Holy Spirit is the "baptizer" today in this dispensation, not the Lord Jesus Christ, as in the past, and it is a "dry" baptism-SPIRITUAL. Water baptism was one of the righteous reqiurements of the law in the past-IT WAS NOT OPTIONAL.

Acts 8:30? No.


Baptism - changing the condition, idenity, of something because of an action that was performed.; placing or putting something into another substance and performing an action so that it will change the state of the item from its previous condition-it's condition, status, or identity is changed!

Baptism- the idea of being placed into something (the Lord Jesus Christ's death in this dispensation), and an action is performed, so that when we come out we are changed from our previous condition? It is all about our identification; God takes what we are in Adam and places us into the Lord Jesus Christ, and God's action (crucifying the old man) changes our condition- now we are" in Christ." We are no longer what we were in Adam, because God has done something to us and in us. Our previous condition has been changed because of what God has done:

" Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Colossians 2:12

" Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: {6} Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:3-6
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Baptism: 'to change the nature, identity, condition, status, and to IDENTIFY something with its purpose.. For example, Homer, in his book "The Odyssey", desribes the tempering of a sword. When the hot metal was plunged into water, the sword was "baptized" , and thus the change in the condition of the sword was from soft to hard metal. As another example, when a piece of cloth was placed into a dye vat for coloring, there was a change in the condition of the piece of cloth upon emergence from the vat-it had a new color.



Where is the water?
" But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. " Mt. 20:22,23

"And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized with shall ye be baptized". Mk 10:38,39

"And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:" Luke 12:50
____________________________________________________________

People assume baptism means "water". I can show you other passages where there is no water. There was no water on the cross. The basic idea is IDENTIFICATION for the purpose of change in condition/identity. Did you know that in biblical times, to dye a piece of cloth, you would "baptize" it, "overwhelm" it, "cover" it, in a vat of dye. The cloth would now have a "change in condition", a new "identity". The element was dye here. Look at:

"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea...." 1 Cor. 10:2

They were identified with Moses. Also note Exodus 14:16, 22="dry ground", Exodus 14:29,15:19="dry land". No water! The Egyptians were wet, not the Israselites.



There is one baptism today, and that is a spiritual baptism where a person is identified in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and is identified into the Body of Christ-all by the Holy Spirit(notice the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer, not the Lord Jesus Christ). You can get "immersed", "dunked", "sprinkled" until the tadpoles know your social security number, but that will not save you.


There is one baptism today in the "dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph. 3:2), and that is spiritual baptism of Eph. 4:5(notice the 7 unities of Eph. 4:3-6) are all spiritual), by which we are baptized(identified) into the Body of Christ, and thus identified into the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

You are not discerning the difference between Christ baptizing WITH or IN the Holy Spirit at Pentecost(Mt. 3:11; Mk. 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33; Acts 1:4,5;11:16), and "For BY(emphasis mine) one Spirit are we ALL(emphasis mine) baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been ALL(emphasis mine) made to drink into one Spirit"(1 Cor. 12:13). The Body of Christ's(which was not in existence in the early Acts
period) baptism involves the Holy Spirit as the baptizer, which:

1.places/identifies/unites us into one body of Jews and Gentiles who have trusted the Lord Jesus Christ alone as the Saviour, creating a NEW entity("new man") totally distinct in its nature and program from Israel, and

2. places/identifies/unites each believer with Christ("in Christ" and "Christ in me"), who is the "Head of the Body", and thus His death becomes our death, His burial becomes our burial, and His resurrection becomes our resurrection. There is therefore both a vertical and horizontal union simultaneously formed by this "one baptism"(Eph. 4:5-NOT TWO) by the Spirit. Notice that throughout 1 Corinthians Chapter 12 there is a constant reference to the work of the Holy Spirit. Quoting only one here, which illustrates the Holy Spirit's instrumentality: "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking BY(emphasis mine) the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is Lord, But BY(emphasis mine) the Holy Ghost"(1 Cor. 12:3). All through that Chapter 12 it is clear and understood that the Holy Spirit is the One who is the Instrument doing the various actions. So the passage could not be made to say "in/with one Spirit". It has to be BY ONE SPIRIT, and therefore a different Spirit baptism is being spoken of here, which is separate and distintinct from the Spirit baptism in Acts 1 where the Lord Jesus Christ is the baptizer.

Failure to discern the difference between these 2 baptisms has caused millions of people to be deceived and led astray into a vast number of heresies, including the "Holy Laughter" debacle, the "pscho-babble" tongues embarrassment, and the unscriptural "slain in the spirit" lunacy.

(Continued)
 
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JMWHALEN

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Part 2:

The Lord Jesus Christ had a literal circumcision on the 8th day, as all the little Jews had, and He had the real antitypical circumcision at the cross. There the "old man" was "cut away", "severed"(circumcized), not merely symbolically,and ceremonially or typically, but in reality. And now saints of the body of Christ have in the crucified Lord Jesus Christ the real circumcision made without hands. From now on the circumcision of the unbelievers who rejected the Christ was only a concision, Philippians 3:2, a laceration.

We now have not only a complete circumcision, but also a complete baptism. We have been laid togeter with Him in the tomb through the baptism , as Col. 2:12 says literally.

This is a reference to His baptism at Calvary-no water at Calvary.

"But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." Mt. 20:22,23

"But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized...." Mk. 10:38,39

"But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!' Luke 12:50

=the baptism of His blood at Calvary-same as Romans 6:4,. This came three yars after His water baptism. In this water baptism, He IDENTIFIED Himself with Israel and with us: Luke 12:50; Mat. 20:22,23; Mark 10:38,39; Romans 6:3,4; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12.

In Romans 6:3,4, Gal. 3:27, and Col. 2:12 we have the same waterless baptism INTO the crucified, buried, and risen Lord Jesus Christ. There is no imitation of the Jewish water rite, water baptism, but an IDENTIFICATION with His "blood bath" at Calvary. We have been baptized, IDENTIFIED, into His death: Romans 6:4. When we were just dead Gentile "dogs", He also gave us a quickening, and a resurrection through that special operation of God, not men, by the way of faith. Christians are now people that had a resurrectionfrom among the dead, and this certainly was not material. We were dead, but now our life is hid with Christ in God-Col. 3:3. How anomalous is it to BURY the living! The dead are buried, not the living!

Just as sure as our circumcision was without hands, Col. 2:10-12, so also is our baptism without hands. We were quickened with the Lord Jesus Christ, and raised with Christ, but not in or through water baptism. Water baptism could not possible be a burial with the Lord Jesus Christ, for He was not buried in a liquid grave, but in rocks, and buried when dead. In contrast, the "dry baptismal" candidate is buried as soon as he has received life! That saint was raised, Col. 3:1-2, and THE SINNER "in Adam" was BURIED! Believers are not to be buried, but are most emphatically declared to have been buried, even those who religiously never touched a drop of water! It is not to happen, but it happened when he died and was buried, Romans 6:3-5. H was long ago baptized, IDENTIFIED, into Christ Jesus and into His death: Romans 6:2-5; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:10-12; Eph. 4:5. People today read baptism in the imperative mood, whereas the LORD God wrote it in the PAST TENSE. They today read it as a prerequisite, while the LORD God states it as a prerogative. They today regard it as something material, while the LORD God regards it today as spiritual. People today regard it as for the few that obey. the LORD God says He baptized, IDENTIFIED, all believers. People today want it to be done. The LORD God says He already did it 2000 years ago. The LORD God buried the dead Lord Jesus Christ. People today want to bury living Christians.The LORD God buried in rocks. People today want to bury in water. The LORD God redeemed from the curse. People today want to "dip" the saint under the element of a curse. The LORD God made us to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, people today take joy/delight in going down to the waters of death with the tadpoles.

One Baptism - the work of the Holy Spirit that identifies, or"baptizes" the believer into the very death of Christ (see Romans 6:3-4 with Galatians 2:20; Colossians 2:11-12).

This act of the Holy Ghost (the Baptizer) baptizing the believer into the death of Christ (the "element"), and thus so identifying the believer with his Lord as to make him a member of the Body of Christ, takes place the moment one believes the gospel of the Grace of God; this is the One Baptism (and only) for today. (Note Ephesians 4:5 with 1 Corinthians 12:13). It is an operation of God, not of man (Colossians 2:11-12). Thus, we stand complete in Christ, apart from the works of men, either our own or another’s. This one baptism that identifies us with the Lord Jesus Christ as members of His Body was a part of a revelation received by the Apostle Paul, which he calls "the mystery"-- a secret that had been kept hidden in God before the foundation of the world, never made known to men of other ages. See Ephesians 3:1-10, Colossians 1:25-29.




___________

Females were not circumcised(impossible!) To be a Jewish proselyte, you had to offer a sacrifice, be baptized, and be circumcised(in the OT). Baptism does not replace circumcision.

Again:

These are 2 separate issues talked about in Col. 2:10-12. Understanding "the circumcision of Christ" is to understand that this was a spiritual circumcision at the cross. While Christ's spirit returned to the Father, God the Father "severed" Christ's soul from His Body at the cross(the physical circumcision was a severing of the flesh from the body) Christ's soul went to hell, "separated" from His physical body-"made without hands"=God the Father performing this spiritual circumcision. Likewise, when you were saved, who you were "in Adam" was severed from your body-our "soul" was separated from "the body of the sins of the flesh".

Per the previous, the baptism here is also a spiritual one. Baptism means to identify for the purposes of union, oneness, change in condition. This is a reference to the fact that when Christ was buried, believers were "identified" with Christ in this burial.

Also note that Romans 6:3-4 states that we were baptized into Christ's death, and Galatians 3:27 states we are baptized into Christ= when Christ died, I died. When Christ was buried, I was buried. When Christ rose from the dead, I rose from the dead.

Col. 2:12:
"...ye are risen with him")=God the Father "identified" me in the death, burial, and resurrection.


Again, in this dispensation, theLORD God is now reconciling Jews and Gentiles to Himself in one body purely through faith in the completed work of the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary (1 Corinthians 15:3-4, Ephesians 2:13-18). The very instant a believer trusts the Gospel (1 Cor.15:3-4), he is "by one Spirit baptized into one body" (1 Cor.12:13) and thus "baptized into Christ" (Gal.3:27). There is no opportunity for a water ceremony here. No human rite or ceremony can consign the believer "into Christ." No, the "one baptism" (Eph.4:5) of the "one Body" is performed by "One Spirit", not by a preacher, priest. pastor...............

The working of positional truth of being "in Christ" is this Spirit baptism. So absolutely adequate is our position in Christ by virtue of this Spirit performed baptism that we are told in Col. 2:10 "....And ye are complete in Him."

In Christ,
John M. Whalen
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Heres a LIST of the DIFFERENCES between Peters gospel and Pauls; two gospels.
Sojourner3 post # 33: They were given the secrets of the kingdom of God. Their understanding of Jesus' mission was progressive. They thought - as the other Jews - that Jesus was going to come to establish His earthly rule. But, that wasn't why He came. In fact, the Bible says:
Yep, I agree. The Jews had to pick from one or the other as the Lord shows here in Revelation:

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of Her [Peter's gospel], My People [Paul's gospel], lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her Stripes/Whipping.
Luke 21:27 `And then they shall see the Son of Man, coming in a cloud, with power and much glory; 28 and these things beginning to happen bend yourselves back, and lift up Your heads, because Your Redemption/ apolutrwsiV <629> doth draw nigh.'
 
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eph3Nine

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Part 2:

The Lord Jesus Christ had a literal circumcision on the 8th day, as all the little Jews had, and He had the real antitypical circumcision at the cross. There the "old man" was "cut away", "severed"(circumcized), not merely symbolically,and ceremonially or typically, but in reality. And now saints of the body of Christ have in the crucified Lord Jesus Christ the real circumcision made without hands. From now on the circumcision of the unbelievers who rejected the Christ was only a concision, Philippians 3:2, a laceration.

We now have not only a complete circumcision, but also a complete baptism. We have been laid togeter with Him in the tomb through the baptism , as Col. 2:12 says literally.

This is a reference to His baptism at Calvary-no water at Calvary.

"But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." Mt. 20:22,23

"But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized...." Mk. 10:38,39

"But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!' Luke 12:50

=the baptism of His blood at Calvary-same as Romans 6:4,. This came three yars after His water baptism. In this water baptism, He IDENTIFIED Himself with Israel and with us: Luke 12:50; Mat. 20:22,23; Mark 10:38,39; Romans 6:3,4; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12.

In Romans 6:3,4, Gal. 3:27, and Col. 2:12 we have the same waterless baptism INTO the crucified, buried, and risen Lord Jesus Christ. There is no imitation of the Jewish water rite, water baptism, but an IDENTIFICATION with His "blood bath" at Calvary. We have been baptized, IDENTIFIED, into His death: Romans 6:4. When we were just dead Gentile "dogs", He also gave us a quickening, and a resurrection through that special operation of God, not men, by the way of faith. Christians are now people that had a resurrectionfrom among the dead, and this certainly was not material. We were dead, but now our life is hid with Christ in God-Col. 3:3. How anomalous is it to BURY the living! The dead are buried, not the living!

Just as sure as our circumcision was without hands, Col. 2:10-12, so also is our baptism without hands. We were quickened with the Lord Jesus Christ, and raised with Christ, but not in or through water baptism. Water baptism could not possible be a burial with the Lord Jesus Christ, for He was not buried in a liquid grave, but in rocks, and buried when dead. In contrast, the "dry baptismal" candidate is buried as soon as he has received life! That saint was raised, Col. 3:1-2, and THE SINNER "in Adam" was BURIED! Believers are not to be buried, but are most emphatically declared to have been buried, even those who religiously never touched a drop of water! It is not to happen, but it happened when he died and was buried, Romans 6:3-5. H was long ago baptized, IDENTIFIED, into Christ Jesus and into His death: Romans 6:2-5; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:10-12; Eph. 4:5. People today read baptism in the imperative mood, whereas the LORD God wrote it in the PAST TENSE. They today read it as a prerequisite, while the LORD God states it as a prerogative. They today regard it as something material, while the LORD God regards it today as spiritual. People today regard it as for the few that obey. the LORD God says He baptized, IDENTIFIED, all believers. People today want it to be done. The LORD God says He already did it 2000 years ago. The LORD God buried the dead Lord Jesus Christ. People today want to bury living Christians.The LORD God buried in rocks. People today want to bury in water. The LORD God redeemed from the curse. People today want to "dip" the saint under the element of a curse. The LORD God made us to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, people today take joy/delight in going down to the waters of death with the tadpoles.

One Baptism - the work of the Holy Spirit that identifies, or"baptizes" the believer into the very death of Christ (see Romans 6:3-4 with Galatians 2:20; Colossians 2:11-12).

This act of the Holy Ghost (the Baptizer) baptizing the believer into the death of Christ (the "element"), and thus so identifying the believer with his Lord as to make him a member of the Body of Christ, takes place the moment one believes the gospel of the Grace of God; this is the One Baptism (and only) for today. (Note Ephesians 4:5 with 1 Corinthians 12:13). It is an operation of God, not of man (Colossians 2:11-12). Thus, we stand complete in Christ, apart from the works of men, either our own or another’s. This one baptism that identifies us with the Lord Jesus Christ as members of His Body was a part of a revelation received by the Apostle Paul, which he calls "the mystery"-- a secret that had been kept hidden in God before the foundation of the world, never made known to men of other ages. See Ephesians 3:1-10, Colossians 1:25-29.




___________

Females were not circumcised(impossible!) To be a Jewish proselyte, you had to offer a sacrifice, be baptized, and be circumcised(in the OT). Baptism does not replace circumcision.

Again:

These are 2 separate issues talked about in Col. 2:10-12. Understanding "the circumcision of Christ" is to understand that this was a spiritual circumcision at the cross. While Christ's spirit returned to the Father, God the Father "severed" Christ's soul from His Body at the cross(the physical circumcision was a severing of the flesh from the body) Christ's soul went to hell, "separated" from His physical body-"made without hands"=God the Father performing this spiritual circumcision. Likewise, when you were saved, who you were "in Adam" was severed from your body-our "soul" was separated from "the body of the sins of the flesh".

Per the previous, the baptism here is also a spiritual one. Baptism means to identify for the purposes of union, oneness, change in condition. This is a reference to the fact that when Christ was buried, believers were "identified" with Christ in this burial.

Also note that Romans 6:3-4 states that we were baptized into Christ's death, and Galatians 3:27 states we are baptized into Christ= when Christ died, I died. When Christ was buried, I was buried. When Christ rose from the dead, I rose from the dead.

Col. 2:12:
"...ye are risen with him")=God the Father "identified" me in the death, burial, and resurrection.


Again, in this dispensation, theLORD God is now reconciling Jews and Gentiles to Himself in one body purely through faith in the completed work of the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary (1 Corinthians 15:3-4, Ephesians 2:13-18). The very instant a believer trusts the Gospel (1 Cor.15:3-4), he is "by one Spirit baptized into one body" (1 Cor.12:13) and thus "baptized into Christ" (Gal.3:27). There is no opportunity for a water ceremony here. No human rite or ceremony can consign the believer "into Christ." No, the "one baptism" (Eph.4:5) of the "one Body" is performed by "One Spirit", not by a preacher, priest. pastor...............

The working of positional truth of being "in Christ" is this Spirit baptism. So absolutely adequate is our position in Christ by virtue of this Spirit performed baptism that we are told in Col. 2:10 "....And ye are complete in Him."

In Christ,
John M. Whalen
EXCELLENT meaty material , John. We need a toothpick after your lessons...WONDERFUL!
 
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