Josephus,
How sure are you that these aren't mistranslations? How come some versions of the Bible use "by him" and some use "through him?" Yet, they don't differ in the meaning of John 17:3!
Who is the Holy Spirit that is God in addition to the Father? The Bible says the Father is spirit and He is holy. The Bible further says that the Father (God) has seven spirits that He sends out into all the earth. Who among these is God the Holy Spirit?
I say, God the Holy Spirit is none other than God the Father because like the "WORD that was God" because it carried the power of God who SPOKE it, the "Holy Spirit is God" because it also carries the power of God from whom the spirit comes. These are only metaphors to describe the power of the WORD and the Holy Spirit.
How could Jesus be also God in addition to the Father when he himself says he is a MAN? Moreover, he identified the Father as the ONLY true God!
People say that all the time. That does not prove that they have God and it was God who answered their prayers. Remember that Satan is the present ruler of this world and if one is not a child of God, he must be a child of the devil. Of course Satan will strive to prove that even without God prayers can be answered - by him.
Why don't you broaden your knowledge and look at other versions of the Bible. They are Bibles too and they give you a clearer rendition of the verse. And Jesus referring to himself in the third person is not at all strange. People do it all the time.
Now this is strange - God praying to God and yet you say there is only one God! And you have twisted the verse
around to change its meaning to what you think it should be.
If this is what you believe the verse should be, why didn't Jesus simply say "that they may know YOU and ME as the only true God" or "that they may know YOU and Jesus Christ whom YOU sent as the only true God" or "that they may know US as the only true God in two persons?"
Might it be that Jesus did not know how to construct his sentence in Hebrew or Greek yet? Or might it be that Jesus did not know what he is saying and you believe he is wrong!
How come he repeated what he said in John 20:17 and told Mary that he is going to HIS Father and their Father, to HIS God and their God?
And how come apostle Paul said there is only one God and that is the Father (1 Cor. 8:6). And how come both Paul and Peter say that the Father is the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ (Eph. 1:L3; Col. 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3)?
These questions cannot be answered by your twisted interpretation of John 17:3!
Your attempts to justify the deity of Jesus is pathetic. Are you aware that Jesus told this only to children of God who have received the Spirit of adoption by whom they cry out "Abba Father?" (Rom. 8:15) And are you aware that Jesus promised his disciples (those who believe in him and abide in his words - they are members of his church) that he will send the Spirit of truth that comes from the Father to remind them of all the things he taught them?
Ed
"There is no question that the Father alone is the only one God of Christians. The phrases "for him", "through him" and "by him" could be mistranslations to make the Bible fit the Trinity doctrine."
Could be. But they aren't.
How sure are you that these aren't mistranslations? How come some versions of the Bible use "by him" and some use "through him?" Yet, they don't differ in the meaning of John 17:3!
In regards to the multiple scripture you posted:
Of course I believe in one God! To believe otherwise would be blasphemy! What you and I differ on is what this God is and how He has choosen to reveal himself. I am agreeing that the Father is God, but what we disagree on is the Holy Spirit being God, and Jesus being God.
Who is the Holy Spirit that is God in addition to the Father? The Bible says the Father is spirit and He is holy. The Bible further says that the Father (God) has seven spirits that He sends out into all the earth. Who among these is God the Holy Spirit?
I say, God the Holy Spirit is none other than God the Father because like the "WORD that was God" because it carried the power of God who SPOKE it, the "Holy Spirit is God" because it also carries the power of God from whom the spirit comes. These are only metaphors to describe the power of the WORD and the Holy Spirit.
How could Jesus be also God in addition to the Father when he himself says he is a MAN? Moreover, he identified the Father as the ONLY true God!
Let me ask you a personal question: have you ever had a prayer answered?
My latest prayer was answered yesterday. The one before that? Last week. The one before that? Last weekend.
People say that all the time. That does not prove that they have God and it was God who answered their prayers. Remember that Satan is the present ruler of this world and if one is not a child of God, he must be a child of the devil. Of course Satan will strive to prove that even without God prayers can be answered - by him.
"Even you remove the commas of John 17:3, the meaning remains the same: "Eternal life means knowing the Father the only true God and knowing Jesus Christ the one whom the only true God sent."
That's your meaning. That's not what it says. It actually says
"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."
also strange that Jesus is referring to himself in the third person here when praying to the Father.
Why don't you broaden your knowledge and look at other versions of the Bible. They are Bibles too and they give you a clearer rendition of the verse. And Jesus referring to himself in the third person is not at all strange. People do it all the time.
To me, it is God praying "that they may know you, 'Father,' and your Son whom you have sent." It is God speaking within himself in the relationship between the persons of the Father and Jesus.
Now this is strange - God praying to God and yet you say there is only one God! And you have twisted the verse
around to change its meaning to what you think it should be.
If this is what you believe the verse should be, why didn't Jesus simply say "that they may know YOU and ME as the only true God" or "that they may know YOU and Jesus Christ whom YOU sent as the only true God" or "that they may know US as the only true God in two persons?"
Might it be that Jesus did not know how to construct his sentence in Hebrew or Greek yet? Or might it be that Jesus did not know what he is saying and you believe he is wrong!
How come he repeated what he said in John 20:17 and told Mary that he is going to HIS Father and their Father, to HIS God and their God?
And how come apostle Paul said there is only one God and that is the Father (1 Cor. 8:6). And how come both Paul and Peter say that the Father is the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ (Eph. 1:L3; Col. 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3)?
These questions cannot be answered by your twisted interpretation of John 17:3!
And I think I stumbled across a verse accidentally that may hint that Jesus' spirit is the Holy Spirit: "behold I am with you always even unto the end of the earth." How can Jesus be with us if He has ascended into heaven to the Father? Simple. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit who is with us and is our Counselor and guide...the same everything that Jesus was when He was here. Even the Psalms declare that God is our strong tower and refuge, our redeemer and savior, our counselor and friend, etc. All these things the Holy Spirit is (as Jesus declared He was), and all these things are what Jesus did (proving by action he was too), and the Father we know is already God.
Your attempts to justify the deity of Jesus is pathetic. Are you aware that Jesus told this only to children of God who have received the Spirit of adoption by whom they cry out "Abba Father?" (Rom. 8:15) And are you aware that Jesus promised his disciples (those who believe in him and abide in his words - they are members of his church) that he will send the Spirit of truth that comes from the Father to remind them of all the things he taught them?
Ed
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