When was Christ given dominion and authority over all things?

JMWHALEN · Oct 23, 2006

["You do my statements just like you do the Word of God. You take part of a statement and make a case on it. You are taking one scripture and trying to make a belief that is foreign to the rest of the Canon of Scripture, which is the same thing that the Mormons and JWs have done. I lump you in with them on this one." -GLJCA

Mc: Thanks for your opinion, and no scripture, as usual. This is your "argument"? Throwin' in the old "Mormons and JWs" line, eh GLJCA? Boy, you shocked me! I never saw this used in a debate! No sirree! Translation: I, GLJCA, have no rational, logical argument, thus I will make an emotional argument/plea, since Whalen knocked down my "supporting walls"(premises). I will use an amateur debating tactic, very similar to what RCC apologists use, i.e., "the babbling technique...or attack Martin Luther...or....." Good one, GLJCA!

Mc: You have shown us nothing. Show us that "The gospel that Paul preached", i.e., 1 Cor: 15:1-4, is the same gospel that the 12 preached, prior to the dbr, in Mt.-John. The 12 were ONLY PREACHING "the" gospel of the kingdom, not 1 Cor. 15:1-4 prior to the dbr. Show us anywhere, chapter and verse, where the 12 preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4="The gospel that Paul preached", prior to the dbr. If you cannot cite it, then the 12 were preaching a "the" gospel different than 1 Cor. 15:1-4="the gospel of the kingdom. -JMW

"This is really good, John. The people that are reading this discussion can see the position that you are in. They see that your premise is that the gospel that Jesus told His disciples to preach was different than what Paul preached. I showed you that you are wrong. " -GLJCA

Mc: No, you provided your opinion. He provides no scripture in Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where the Lord Jesus Christ , the 12 preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 as a basis for justification-ZIPPO. He cannot. And why is that? Simple(except for 1 Cor. 3:1-2 kids like himself):

"1.The 12 did not know of the impending dbr-it was hid from them

"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31,32

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9

2. Peter tried to prevent the Lord Jesus Christ's death, and His death was a key component of 1 Cor. 15:1-4:

"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee" Mt. 16:21,22

"And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him." Mark 8:31,32

3. Even after the Lord's death, burial, and resurrection, the 12 intially did not believe it:

"And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted." Mt. 28:17

"And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen." Mark 16:11

"And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest. It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not." Luke 24:9-11

" And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?" Luke 24:41

"...that the gospel that Jesus told His disciples to preach was different than what Paul preached."-GLJCA

Show us, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, while the gospel of the kingdom was being preached by the lord Jesus Christ, and where "Jesus told his disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdom", where the Lord jesus Christ, the 12, or anybody, preached 1 Cor. 151-4 as a basis for justification-CHAPTER AND VERSE.

"Please comment on the scripture that I have given you in Acts 26 instead of this dodging and running from the question? It takes a man to say that he is wrong when the Word of God shows him that he is wrong. Hey I also notice that EPH is even smart enough to get out of this discussion. It is really hard to propagate a false belief when people keep showing scriptures that refute it.

I have shown you in Paul's own words the gospel that he preached to Jew and Gentile was Paul's gospel. Here it is again.
Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Paul shows what the gospel of the heavenly vision is that he was given. He shows that he preached that gospel of the heavenly vision to Jew and Gentile alike. If you are preaching a gospel that is lacking repentance then you are preaching a different gospel.

I have shown you that Paul's gospel was the same Gospel that Jesus told the rest of His disciples to preach in Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
This is the same content that Paul preached in 1Cor 15. It shows that Christ had to suffer, die, and rise from the dead. He also tells them to preach repentance and remission from sin. These are Christ's words not mine, and this is exactly what Paul preached.

You know what is sad is that the Word of God has shown you to be in error and you are going to stay with the error instead of standing on the Word of God."-GLJCA

Mc: Is Acts 26 in Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, GLJCA? Show me specfic scripture, chapter and verse, from scripture, in Mt/-John, prior to the death, burial, and resurrection, where 1 Cor. 15:1-4 was preached by anyone as a basis for justification. CHAPTER AND VERSE.

Is Luke 24:46 prior to the dbr, GLJCA?

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34

Again-they did not know of the dbr, where not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4. while they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Thus, the gospel of the kingdom is not 1 Cor. 15:1-4. Acts 8:30? NO.

Show us:

1.where the Lord Jesus Christ preached: I am going to die for your sins, be buried, and raised again so that you may be justified. Believe on my death, burial, and resurrection, and you will be saved.=1 Cor. 15:1-4

2.where the 12 preached: he is going to die for your sins, be buried, and raised again so that you may be justified. Believe on His death, burial, and resurrection, and you will be saved.=1 Cor. 15:1-4

You cannot, and will not. The gospel of the kingdom, which the 12 did preach prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since they did not preach 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

Acts 8:30? No.

Show that the content of faith required for justification in Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, was that which "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 states John I shown you several scriptures but you rejected all of them. Here is another scripture that shows that faith justified OT saints, not that it will help because you will reject this passage also.
Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
This is the second most requoted verse in the Bible. It is requoted several times in the NT. It shows without a doubt( that is for anyone except a MAD person) that it has always been faith that justifies.

The OT saints before the DBR placed their faith in the coming Messiah and God honored that faith. After the crucifixion Christ appeared to the OT saints showing them that He was the object of their faith. Ephesians says that He lead captivity captive at that time, which is why many of the OT saints came out of their graves at the resurrection.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Mt 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mt 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Today those OT saints are in heaven with Christ and are part of the Church of Jesus Christ, which is the Kingdom Church.

Now could you please comment on this idolatry thing that you say Paul was talking about in Acts 26? I am excited to hear what you have to say about that one.

Mc: Nowhere have you shown, in Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where anybody was required to believe:

"....Christ died for our sins...was buried....was raised again.....for our justification...."

"...that it has always been faith that justifies..." -GLJCA

Mc: Agreed. But the content of faith is not always the same.

Show me specfic scripture, chapter and verse, from scripture, in Mt/-John, prior to the death, burial, and resurrection:

1.where the Lord Jesus Christ preached: I am going to die for your sins, be buried, and raised again so that you may be justified. Believe on my death, burial, and resurrection, and you will be saved.=1 Cor. 15:1-4

2.where the 12 preached: he is going to die for your sins, be buried, and raised again so that you may be justified. Believe on His death, burial, and resurrection, and you will be saved.= 1 Cor. 15:1-4

You cannot, and will not. The gospel of the kingdom, which the 12 did preach prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since they did not preach 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

In Christ and with Christ,
John

JMWHALEN · Oct 23, 2006

GLJCA said:
This is the classic Dispy dodge and run tactic. Your premise is that Paul's gospel was different than Peter's gospel. That is the premise that started this discussion. Now you are trying to do some open field running from the subject of this discussion.

Please comment on these scriptures that I have presented.
Here is the gospel according to Jesus Christ.
Luke 24: 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Here is the gospel according to Peter.
Acts 2: 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Here is the gospel according to Paul.
Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Sure looks like the same to me. If it is kidstuff to believe the Bible then I like kidstuff.

GLJCA

__________

Show us that "The gospel that Paul preached", i.e., 1 Cor: 15:1-4, is the same gospel that the 12 preached, prior to the dbr, in Mt.-John. The 12 were ONLY PREACHING "the" gospel of the kingdom, not 1 Cor. 15:1-4 prior to the dbr. Show us anywhere, chapter and verse, where the 12 preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4="The gospel that Paul preached", prior to the dbr. If you cannot cite it, then the 12 were preaching a "the" gospel different than 1 Cor. 15:1-4="the gospel of the kingdom.

Show us. You will not, and cannot. I will wait. Chapter and verse from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr. Let's go.

Now, again, for the umpteenth time, provide scripture, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, or anybody, preached "I/He is going to die for your sins....be buried.....be raised again for your/our justification....believe on this and you will be saved...." Chapter and verse.

You cannot, and will not. Thus, "the gospel of the kingdom", which the 12 did preach in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since 1 Cor. 15:1-4 was not preached during this same time period, at least prior to the dbr. And thus, your "supporting walls"(premises) of your "argument" crumbles.

"Please comment on these scriptures that I have presented.
Here is the gospel according to Jesus Christ.
Luke 24: 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."-GLJCA

Mc: Is Luke 24:46 prior to the dbr, GLJCA?

"Here is the gospel according to Peter.
Acts 2: 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."-GLJCA

Mc: There you have it-GLJCA is a member of the Church of Christ-those who preach baptismal regeneration. That is GLJCA's "the" gospel! No mention of the dbr here, GLJCA. Is Acts 2:38 prior to the dbr, GLJCA? Who is Peter talking to here, GLJCA? You? NO. Jews and Jewish proselytes-the dispersia. NO GENTILES allowed here, GLJCA-the feast of Pentecost.

"Here is the gospel according to Paul.
Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Sure looks like the same to me. If it is kidstuff to believe the Bible then I like kidstuff." -GLJCA

Mc: Is Acts 26:19 prior to the dbr, GLJCA? Did the LORD God ever repent?

Show me specfic scripture, chapter and verse, from scripture, in Mt/-John, prior to the death, burial, and resurrection:

1.where the Lord Jesus Christ preached: I am going to die for your sins, be buried, and raised again so that you may be justified. Believe on my death, burial, and resurrection, and you will be saved.

2.where the 12 preached: he is going to die for your sins, be buried, and raised again so that you may be justified. Believe on His death, burial, and resurrection, and you will be saved.

You cannot, and will not. The gospel of the kingdom, which the 12 did preach prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since they did not preach 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

JMWHALEN · Oct 23, 2006

GLJCA said:
Paul's gospel is the gospel of the Kingdom and when one puts their faith in the object of the (good news) gospel of the kingdom Paul says that they are translated into the kingdom of God's Son.
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Notice the tense of the verb here. It is "hath translated" not will translate. When we believe in Christ God translates us into the Kingdom of Christ. How can He do that if the Kingdom isn't here yet? Opps here we go again with that kidstuff. Everytime I bring out scriptures that proves that the MAD belief is bogus you say it is kidstuff. Well kidstuff is good then.

Tell me why did Paul preach the kingdom of God to the Jews and Gentiles after the DBR?
To the Gentiles in Ephesus.
Ac 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
To the Jews in Rome.
Ac 28:23 ¶ And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Ac 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Paul preached the gospel of the Kingdom of God long after the DBR, John.

GLJCA

_______

Mc: You have shown us nothing. Show us that "The gospel that Paul preached", i.e., 1 Cor: 15:1-4, is the same gospel that the 12 preached, prior to the dbr, in Mt.-John. The 12 were ONLY PREACHING "the" gospel of the kingdom, not 1 Cor. 15:1-4 prior to the dbr. Show us anywhere, chapter and verse, where the 12 preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4="The gospel that Paul preached", prior to the dbr. If you cannot cite it, then the 12 were preaching a "the" gospel different than 1 Cor. 15:1-4="the gospel of the kingdom.-JMW

"Paul's gospel is the gospel of the Kingdom and when one puts their faith in the object of the (good news) gospel of the kingdom Paul says that they are translated into the kingdom of God's Son.
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Notice the tense of the verb here. It is "hath translated" not will translate. When we believe in Christ God translates us into the Kingdom of Christ. How can He do that if the Kingdom isn't here yet? Opps here we go again with that kidstuff. Everytime I bring out scriptures that proves that the MAD belief is bogus you say it is kidstuff. Well kidstuff is good then."-GLJCA

Mc: Show us that "The gospel that Paul preached", i.e., 1 Cor: 15:1-4, is the same gospel that the 12 preached, prior to the dbr, in Mt.-John. The 12 were ONLY PREACHING "the" gospel of the kingdom, not 1 Cor. 15:1-4 prior to the dbr. Show us anywhere, chapter and verse, where the 12 preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4="The gospel that Paul preached", prior to the dbr. If you cannot cite it, then the 12 were preaching a "the" gospel different than 1 Cor. 15:1-4="the gospel of the kingdom.

The gospel of the kingdom-"....the days of heaven upon the earth...."(Deut. 11:21)=Jews on land, on earth, per the covenants made with the Jews, not you.

"seek ye first the kingdom of God" Mt. 6:33, Luke 12:31=TO JEWS: To seek for something, by definition, means to look for it. One would not be seeking the kingdom of God unless one was not presently in it.
vs.
Col. 1:12,13; 1 Thes. 2:12; Eph. 3:20, 2:6 Philippians 3:20: We are already counted as citizens of heaven, although it's manifestation is not yet present. 2 Cor. 5:20: An ambassador represents his "boss" in a foreign country; citizenship in that country(heaven) is a prerequisite to ambassadorship.

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Mt. 19:28, Luke 22:30, Rev. 21:14
"And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city." Isaiah 1:26=ISRAEL
vs.
"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" 1 Cor. 6:2,3=the body of Christ

The Lord Jesus Christ's throne
"And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom." Mt. 20:21
"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Rev. 3:21=ISRAEL
vs.
God the Father's throne
"Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places," Eph. 1:20
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:." Eph. 1:3
"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus..." Eph. 2:6=the body of Christ

=Members of the Body of Christ will with the Lord Jesus Christ in the heavenlies upon God the Father's throne, but kingdom members will sit upon the Lord Jesus Christ's throne on earth.

"But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." Exodus 11:7
"... I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people." Lev. 20:24
"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth." Deut. 7:6
vs.
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10:12
"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." Col. 3:11
"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." Gal. 3:28

The mystery program set aside Israel, including its distinction/favored status,and its earthly prophetic program, temporarily. Acts 8:30? NO.

"Tell me why did Paul preach the kingdom of God to the Jews and Gentiles after the DBR?
To the Gentiles in Ephesus.
Ac 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
To the Jews in Rome.
Ac 28:23 ¶ And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Ac 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Paul preached the gospel of the Kingdom of God long after the DBR, John."-GLJCA

Mc: Yes he did. "after the DBR....long after the DBR, John..." The 12 did not preach the dbr at least prior to its ocurrence, while they did, prior to the dbr, preach the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, the gospel of the kingdom is not 1 Cor. 15:1-4. Acts 8:30? NO.

Provide scripture, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, or anybody, preached "I/He is going to die for your sins....be buried.....be raised again for your/our justification....believe on this and you will be saved...." Chapter and verse.

You cannot, and will not. Thus, "the gospel of the kingdom", which the 12 did preach in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to "the" gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since 1 Cor. 15:1-4 was not preached during this same time period, at least prior to the dbr. And thus, your "supporting walls"(premises) of your "argument" crumbles.

And this is, and has been, GLJCA's response:

"...We cannot tell..."(Mt. 21:27, Mark 11:33)

In Christ and with Christ,
John

GLJCA · Oct 23, 2006

Show me specfic scripture, chapter and verse, from scripture, in Mt/-John, prior to the death, burial, and resurrection:

1.where the Lord Jesus Christ preached: I am going to die for your sins, be buried, and raised again so that you may be justified. Believe on my death, burial, and resurrection, and you will be saved.

2.where the 12 preached: he is going to die for your sins, be buried, and raised again so that you may be justified. Believe on His death, burial, and resurrection, and you will be saved.

You cannot, and will not. The gospel of the kingdom, which the 12 did preach prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since they did not preach 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

Please address the original subject before we go on to a different issue? I will be glad to go into the kingdom gospel with you after we are through with this discussion.

The beginning of this discussion started with a difference in the gospel that Peter preached and the one that Paul preached. You have run from the scriptures that I have given you and I can't figure out why. You are so sure that the MAD belief is correct then you should have an answer to the scriptures that I presented. I give you scripture, you ignore it and say I haven't given you anything.

Why can't you address the scriptures that I have given you, John? Why are you so scared to address Luke 24 or Acts 26? What are you running from?

You have been shown conclusively that your argument is bogus and therefore you changed your subject. You are a rip, John. All of the people that are reading this discussion can now see that you have no legs to stand on, and therefore you are running scared. All false teaching is like that. When shown to be in error they dodge the question or run and hide.

I have shown you that the just have always lived by faith and you rejected it. I have shown you that the gospel of the kingdom that Peter and Paul preached is the same one that Jesus told them to preach in Luke 24. The ball is in your court on this subject, John. I will not go to a different subject until we have finished this one.

I will just keep bringing up the fact in all the other threads that Peter and Paul preached the same gospel and prove it with scripture and you will have to just keep running from it.

Hey John, you can't make me go away with your comments about me personally (kidstuff, etc). You can't make me go away by attacking my eternal salvation. So why don't you try something you haven't tried yet? Just answer the scriptures that I have presented and maybe that will work.

Why is Paul's gospel in Acts 26 the same as the gospel Peter presented in Acts 2, and the same as the gospel Jesus told His disciples to preach in Luke 24?

Also could you comment on this idolatry idea that you had concerning Acts 26:19-20? I sure would like to hear that one.

GLJCA

eph3Nine · Oct 23, 2006

Pauls gospel is found in Pauls epistles...we dont get doctrine from ACTS.

ACTS is the book that shows the fall of the Nation Israel, and the phasing OUT of Peters authority to show Paul being the authoratative figure by the end of Acts.

JMWHALEN · Oct 23, 2006

GLJCA said:
Please address the original subject before we go on to a different issue? I will be glad to go into the kingdom gospel with you after we are through with this discussion.
_______________

Mc: Different issue? This issue , even for kids, is simple. You are on record as stating that there is just one "the" gospel. And I showed that the gospel of the kingdom preached prior to the dbr was not 1 Cor. 15:1-4-the 12 were not preaching 1 Cpr. 15:1-4 at least prior to the dbr, John the Baptist was not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, and the Lord Jesus Christ was not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4. The Lord Jesus Christ taught the 12 to preach:

the gospel of the kingdom

"The beginning of this discussion started with a difference in the gospel that Peter preached and the one that Paul preached."-GLJCA

And I point out that Peter preached the gospel of the kingdom in Mt-John PRIOR TO THE DBR, and never preached in this time period "....Christ is going to die for your sins...will be buried...will be raised again for your justification....believe it and be saved...."

"You have run from the scriptures that I have given you and I can't figure out why."-GLJCA

Mc: I will help you out. You can quote scripture after the dbr until you are blue in the face. It will not strengthen your "argument" that there is just one "the" gospel. For, while the 12 were preaching the gospel of the kingdom in Mt.-John prior to the dbr, they were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 as a basis for justification-it was hid from them. Thus, the gospel of the kingdom is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4. And thus, your "argument" of a "homogenous" "the" gospel is refuted.

"You are so sure that the MAD belief is correct then you should have an answer to the scriptures that I presented. I give you scripture, you ignore it and say I haven't given you anything. "

Mc: The scriptures you presented were after the dbr. We can discuss what the 12 preached after the dbr, but that discussion is "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic", if you cannot understand what the gospel of the kingdom is, and cannot see that the gospel of the kingdom is not 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

Why can't you address the scriptures that I have given you, John? Why are you so scared to address Luke 24 or Acts 26? What are you running from? "-GLJCA

Mc: Luke 24 says "then", does it not? They had no clue at least beforethe dbr, did they? So, explain how they could preach 1 Cor. 15:1-4? THEY DID NOT PREACH 1 Cor. 15:1-4. Thus, the gospel of the kingdom is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4 "the" gospel, sir, which merely means "good news." Acts 26? When was that? Prior to the dbr? Acts 8:30? NO.

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,..." Luke 4:18(see Is. 61:1)

See Isaiah 35:5, 29:18=the millenial kingdom="...as the days of heaven upon the earth..."(Deut, 11:21) . This is the good news all the Jews were expecting, the promises the LORD God had promised them on earth, which included physical deliverance from their enemies, and ideal conditions, and.........=the kingdom of God ON EARTH, its source being FROM HEAVEN.

"You have been shown conclusively that your argument is bogus and therefore you changed your subject." -GLJCA

Mc: Whenever I come across words/statements from an alleged debater along the preceding lines, such as "shown conclusively", I know I am dealing with an amateur, who, after his "supporting walls"(premises) have been dismantled/knocked down/picked apart, throws up the preceding, hoping "it will stick and impress" others that are even more muddled, confused, gullible, deceived, and brainwashed than GLJCA. Good one, GJLCA. This is your best shot?

"You are a rip, John. All of the people that are reading this discussion can now see that you have no legs to stand on, and therefore you are running scared. All false teaching is like that. When shown to be in error they dodge the question or run and hide."

Mc: More "amateur hour." Typical "running scared...dodge....run and hide" cliche, eh GLJCA? Never heard that on a forum before! Right. Kidstuff.

"I have shown you that the just have always lived by faith and you rejected it."

Mc: Were did I reject it? Cite my quotes. I reject that 1 Cor. 15:1-4 was preached prior to the dbr as a basis for justification, and I evidenced from scripture. The content of faith does change. What did Noah have to believe? The dbr? No. Show us, from Mt.-John, prior to the dbr, where anyone preached the dbr as the content of faith required to be justified. CHAPTER AND VERSE. Watch the 45th "punt" by GJLCA. Watch.

"I have shown you that the gospel of the kingdom that Peter and Paul preached is the same one that Jesus told them to preach in Luke 24."

Mc: Show us the gospel of the kingdom the Lord Jesus Christ preached, John The Baptist preached, the 12 preached,per the Lord Jesus Christ's orders in MATTHEW CHAPTER 10, prior to the dbr=1 Cor. 15:1-4.

" The ball is in your court on this subject, John. I will not go to a different subject until we have finished this one."-GLJCA

Mc: No, this is how we will proceed. This is the issue: ONE GOSPEL OR NOT. Show us that the gospel of the kingdom preached by the 12 in Mt.-John prior to the dbr =1 Cor. 15:1-4

"I will just keep bringing up the fact in all the other threads that Peter and Paul preached the same gospel and prove it with scripture and you will have to just keep running from it. "

Mc: You cannot run from it, because you have "punted". You are not in the game. Show us, from scripture, chapter and verse, where ANYONE, at the time the gospel of the kingdom was being preached, in Mt-John, prior to the dbr, where they preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 as a basis for justification.

"Hey John, you can't make me go away with your comments about me personally (kidstuff, etc). You can't make me go away by attacking my eternal salvation. So why don't you try something you haven't tried yet? Just answer the scriptures that I have presented and maybe that will work."

Mc: You have already punted. Kids always punt and throw tantrums, as you demonstrate. Attacking your eternal salvation? If you are saying "the" gospel is Acts 2:38(Should I quote your words), then your own words condemn you, not me.

"Why is Paul's gospel in Acts 26 the same as the gospel Peter presented in Acts 2, and the same as the gospel Jesus told His disciples to preach in Luke 24?Also could you comment on this idolatry idea that you had concerning Acts 26:19-20? I sure would like to hear that one."

Mc: We can discuss what was preached after the dbr, specifically in Acts, once I teach you what the gospel of the kingdom is, and you understand that there is more than one "good news", and that the gospel of the kingdom is not eqivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4. Acts 26? Was that after the dbr? Did the LORD God REPENT?

Now, tell us where:

1.The Lord Jesus Christ ever preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 as a basis for justification, prior to the dbr-CHAPTER AND VERSE

2. Where anyone did 1. above prior to the dbr

Chapter and verse, please, prior to the dbr.

Save your time-it is not there. The gospel of the kingdom is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4, despite GJLCA's spin, and his "mind turned to mush" kindergarten responses.

In Christ,
John

GLJCA · Oct 24, 2006

Mc: Different issue? This issue , even for kids, is simple. You are on record as stating that there is just one "the" gospel. And I showed that the gospel of the kingdom preached prior to the dbr was not 1 Cor. 15:1-4-the 12 were not preaching 1 Cpr. 15:1-4 at least prior to the dbr, John the Baptist was not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, and the Lord Jesus Christ was not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4. The Lord Jesus Christ taught the 12 to preach:

You are on record as saying that Paul's gospel is different from the gospel Peter and the rest of the disciples preached.

So are you now admitting that Paul preached the same gospel that Peter preached after the DBR? Jesus gave Peter and His disciples and later Paul the same gospel to preach for Jew and Gentile alike.

Please answer this question and then I will be happy to go to the next subject with you.

GLJCA

GLJCA · Oct 24, 2006

Mc: I will help you out. You can quote scripture after the dbr until you are blue in the face. It will not strengthen your "argument" that there is just one "the" gospel. For, while the 12 were preaching the gospel of the kingdom in Mt.-John prior to the dbr, they were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 as a basis for justification-it was hid from them. Thus, the gospel of the kingdom is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4. And thus, your "argument" of a "homogenous" "the" gospel is refuted.

Now you are getting there. Before you were saying that Paul was the only one after the DBR preaching the gospel. You stated that Peter and the rest of the Disciples did not preach the same gospel in the book of Acts that Paul preached. Are you refuting that belief now?

Before you were saying that repentance is not part of the gospel message, is that still your stand, or have you changed because now you see it was part of Paul's gospel?

I am just trying to find out where you are coming from as it seems that your argument is changing.

GLJCA

eph3Nine · Oct 24, 2006

Oh GLJCA....grow up. Hes taken your arguments and wrapped you up so tight you dont even need a bow. Give it up.

GLJCA · Oct 24, 2006

Mc: Show us the gospel of the kingdom the Lord Jesus Christ preached, John The Baptist preached, the 12 preached,per the Lord Jesus Christ's orders in MATTHEW CHAPTER 10, prior to the dbr=1 Cor. 15:1-4.

Ok let's see what 1Cor 15:1-4 says. First Paul says that they received the gospel. They believed the gospel. They stand on the gospel. If they don't remain in the gospel they will have believed in vain, in other words they will be lost.
Paul also delivers to them that Christ died for their sins, was buried, and rose again according to the scriptures. What scriptures? OT scriptures. The only bible they had at that time. Here it is again.
1Cor 1:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
You contend that this was different from the gospel that any other disciple even Jesus Christ himself.

What was it that Jesus preached to the people?

Let's look at what Jesus preached before the DBR.
John 3:13-16 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jesus preached that He was to be lifted up, which is a reference to His crucifixion, and that whoever believed in Him would have eternal life. Hmmm sounds like the gospel message that Paul preached.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

And Peter preached. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."

So Jesus, Peter and Paul all preached that belief in Christ produced eternal life. Christ preached it before the DBR and Peter and Paul preached it afterward.

The gospel of the kingdom is the good news that King Jesus loves us and gave His life as a ransom for our sins, but now is alive, and sits on David's throne on the right hand of God until all His enemies are made His footstool.

The one thing you guys aren't taking into account is:
Rom 9:15-16 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

All who are ordained to eternal life will believe because God ordained it. All of those who believe were ordained to eternal life before the foundation of the world. Therefore whether they are in the OT or the NT they are still part of the Covenant people of God, the olive tree. We are all one in Christ.

This is the good news that Dispys miss, even though it is spelled out plainly in Eph 2. Which if you read it carefully shows you that Jesus broke down that which divided us. Dispys are trying to rebuild that wall.

Eph 2:11-18 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

GLJCA

GLJCA · Oct 24, 2006

eph3Nine said:
Oh GLJCA....grow up. Hes taken your arguments and wrapped you up so tight you dont even need a bow. Give it up.

Are you kidding? With all the progress I am making here. I could never give it up. One thing I will probably never do though is to get him to admit that Paul and Peter preached the same gospel but everyone else reading this discussion has seen that it is true.

Hey how about you, EPH? Do you still maintain that Paul preached a different gospel than Peter?

GLJCA

eph3Nine · Oct 24, 2006

GLJCA said:
Are you kidding? With all the progress I am making here. I could never give it up. One thing I will probably never do though is to get him to admit that Paul and Peter preached the same gospel but everyone else reading this discussion has seen that it is true.

Hey how about you, EPH? Do you still maintain that Paul preached a different gospel than Peter?

GLJCA

I most certainly do...and had you ever studied the scriptures , you would see that they are different as well.

Heres just a few of the differences:

TWO Commissions...one for Peter /Judaism and ONE for Paul/Body of Christ

What WERE the commissions of each program?

...Comparison of Programs...The Commissions of Each.

Judaism =

The Lord Jesus personally commissioned 12 men to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom. These 12 men are better known as the 12 disciples aor 12 Apostles.

A detailed account of their commission is contained in Matthew 10:5-42:

1. They were to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and NOT TO THE GENTILES, preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.

2. They were endowed with miraculous powers which were the Divine credentials of THEIR ministry.

3. After the Resurrection of Christ, He renewed and enlarged THEIR commission according to Matthew 28:19,20; Mark 16:15-18, and in Acts 1:8.

4. The message still remained the SAME, as Peter well knew. (He preached this same message at Pentecost...NOT the forgiveness of sins by His Blood.)

Christianity =

The Lord Jesus Christ personally commissioned ONE man to preach the Gospel of the Grace of God. This man is better known as the Apostle Paul.

The message he preached concerned God's purpose for the GENTILES IN THIS AGE, and Paul called himself THE APOSTLE OF THE GENTILES (Romans 11:13)

God's COMPLETE purpose and will for this Age was revealed to Paul, and was written down in his epistles under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (2 Tim 3:16) WE , in turn, are commissioned to preach THIS MESSAGE, NOT the Kingdom Gospel.

Our marching orders are contained in 2 Corinthians 5:14-21...We ARE "Ambassadors for Christ with the world of Reconciliation"..and in Eph 3:9, to "make ALL men SEE what IS the Dispensation of the Mystery...)

JMWHALEN · Oct 24, 2006

GLJCA said:
You are on record as saying that Paul's gospel is different from the gospel Peter and the rest of the disciples preached.

So are you now admitting that Paul preached the same gospel that Peter preached after the DBR? Jesus gave Peter and His disciples and later Paul the same gospel to preach for Jew and Gentile alike.

Please answer this question and then I will be happy to go to the next subject with you.

GLJCA

______________---
Mc:You are on record as stating that there is just one "the" gospel. And I showed that the gospel of the kingdom preached prior to the dbr was not 1 Cor. 15:1-4-the 12 were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 at least prior to the dbr, John the Baptist was not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, and the Lord Jesus Christ was not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4. The Lord Jesus Christ taught the 12 to preach the gospel of the kingdom. Show us, chapter and verse, where ANYONE, prior to the dbr, in Mt.-John, preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4, while the gospel of the kingdom was being preached. Chapter and verse.

Go ahead and try to prove, scripture chapter and verse, that the Lord Jesus Christ is preaching Himself crucified (1Corinthians 2:2) in Mark 1:14-15. Help yourself, REPPY.

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

eph3Nine · Oct 24, 2006

GLJCA said:
Are you kidding? With all the progress I am making here. I could never give it up. One thing I will probably never do though is to get him to admit that Paul and Peter preached the same gospel but everyone else reading this discussion has seen that it is true.

Hey how about you, EPH? Do you still maintain that Paul preached a different gospel than Peter?

GLJCA

How was salvation presented under Peters gospel vs Pauls gospel? Different? YES

Judaism = Peter's gospel

God has been saving people ever since Adam and Eve, but salvation has differed according to His will. Two different plans are presented in the Bible:

1. Faith plus works = salvation
2. Faith alone =salvation

A. Faith Plus Works

Under Judaism, the plan of salvation is given in Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved". Salvation is dependent upon believing (ie: faith) plus being baptized in water. And so you have the formula -faith plus works=salvation. And when one STUDIES the gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, this theme of faith plus works is repeated over and over again. Here are some examples:

1. Matthew 5:20 "For I say unto you, that except YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL EXCEED the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of heaven" (Please note that this is the kingdom of heaven ON EARTH promised to the Jew alone. Also notice the 'good works' of verse 16 and the 'doing' of verse 19.

2. Matthew 19:16-21 The rich young ruler wanted to know what he could DO to have eternal life. Jesus told him to KEEP the commandments. The young fella said he DID keep the commandments. What ELSE was there for him to DO? Jesus then told him to go and sell all that thou hast and GIVE to the Poor and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come follow ME." verse 21 ( I think Jesus meant just what He said)

3. Matthew 19:29 Everlasting Life here is dependent upon the FORSAKING of family ties and material possessions for His name's sake.

4. John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily I say unto thee, except a man be born of WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God" (Entrance into the EARTHLY kingdom is by water baptism plus the work of the Holy Spirit. This is the same as Acts 2:38,39.

The BEST way to study the four gospels is to study them chronologically. Then one can see how the faith the works dovetail to form the gospel of the KINGDOM. The Gospel of John is the most spiritual of the 4 records because he emphasizes the FAITH (believing) part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, while Matthew, Mark and Luke emphaize the WORKS part of the Kingdom gospel.

Now dont misunderstand me. NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE DO YOU FIND SALVATION DEPENDENT SOLELY UPON WORKS!!

The Bible does not teach salvation by works and neither do I. Under the Godspel of the Kingdom, the wroks were an OUTWARD demonstration that the individual HAD faith, and this saved him. There are at least two classifications of works in the Bible- The Works of the Law of Moses (Gal. 2:16) and the works of the FLESH (Gal. 5:19) The works of the flesh will get NO man into God's heaven. But GOD DID require under the Dispensation of Law, faith PLUS the works of the Law for salvation for the Millennial Kingdom of God.

This principle of works continued up to the time of Cornelius in Acts 10. Peter began his sermon to the gentiles in Cornelius's house by saying : "But in every nation he that feareth Him and WORKETH RIGHTEOUSNESS is accepted with Him." (Acts 10:35) The faith part is in verse 43...whosoever believes in Him.

James 2:14-26 falls into the same category. He wrote in verse 17, "Even so faith, if it hath not works is DEAD, being ALONE" The second chapter of James has long been a difficult chapter to understand. Putting it with the gospel of the KINGDOM gives us the right meaning of what it says. James wrote his letter "to the TWELVE TRIBES which are scattered abroad." (James 1:1), and ONLY ISRAEL was divided into twelve tribes. This ESTABLISHES to whom this letter is written, and James, in keeping with is calling, is really basing what he writes on another very familiar verse of scripture - one that he could easily understand...Mark 16:16 Under THIS program, faith being alone WAS dead!

Christianity = Paul's Gospel

According to the Gospel of the GRACE of God, salvation is by faith plus NOTHING. It is by pure grace because there are NO works of ANY kind involved. "For by GRACE are you saved thru faith, and that NOT ouf yourselves, it is the gift of God, NOT of works lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9)

This is the Magna Carta of salvation in THIS age. It is faith and faith ALONE that saves a person today. This faith is to be exercised in a PERSON, the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. "But to him that WORKETH NOT, but BELIEVETH on Him that justifys the UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

We are to be identified with Him in His death, burial and resurrection, thus obtaining a BRAND NEW identity as members of His Body, which is the Church of this age and NONE OTHER.

JMWHALEN · Oct 24, 2006

GLJCA said:
Now you are getting there. Before you were saying that Paul was the only one after the DBR preaching the gospel. You stated that Peter and the rest of the Disciples did not preach the same gospel in the book of Acts that Paul preached. Are you refuting that belief now?

Before you were saying that repentance is not part of the gospel message, is that still your stand, or have you changed because now you see it was part of Paul's gospel?

I am just trying to find out where you are coming from as it seems that your argument is changing.

GLJCA

_________________

"Now you are getting there. Before you were saying that Paul was the only one after the DBR preaching the gospel. " -GLJCA

Mc:
1. There you go with "the" gospel. You assume tthat there is just one "the gospel."

2. Where did I cite that? Show me. Quote me. Let's go. I have not addressed that issue(as yet). The only issue I am addressing with you, REPPY, is the crux of the issue: is there more than one "the" gospel, i.e., is your "argument" credible that the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4. And I dismantled it with scripture. No one was preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, AT LEAST PRIOR to the dbr ,as a basis for justification, while John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12 were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, they are not the same, and scripture refutes you. And no amount of scripture evidencing any argument,mine or anyone else's, supporting that only Paul was, after the dbr, preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, and not the 12, would be profitable, and would not convince anyone who cannot distinguish the difference between the gospel of the kingdom and 1 Cor. 15:1-4. If one cannot see prior to the dbr what the gospel of the kingdom is, such as yourself, than no amount of scriptural evidence after the dbr can persuade this person after the dbr who holds to the mindset of the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4="homogeneous" "the" gospel. And why? No discernment is possible, since this person thinks "gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4", and must conclude that "they all preached the same thing." Acts 8:30? No.

"You stated that Peter and the rest of the Disciples did not preach the same gospel in the book of Acts that Paul preached. Are you refuting that belief now?"-GLJCA

Mc: Same as above response. Quote me.

"Before you were saying that repentance is not part of the gospel message, is that still your stand, or have you changed because now you see it was part of Paul's gospel?"-GLJCA

Mc: Stop the misquoting. Where did I say that? If repentance means what Paul means, and the LORD God means, i.e., "to change your mind", and not what you apparently mean, to "repent from your sins"(would you like me to show your words saying this), i.e., your LORDSHIP SALVATION heretical teaching, then repentance is part of the gospel. Hence, my question to you, which you "punted" as usual:

Did the LORD God repent?(Hint: He did-close to 30 times).

Now, show us where anyone preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 as a basis for justification prior to the dbr. Chapter and verse. You cannot. Therefore, the gospel of the kingdom, which was preached prior to the dbr, is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4, since 1 Cor. 15:1-4 was not preached, and the gospel of the kingdom was.

Your supposition, your "argument", is that the Lord Jesus Christ preached "Crucify Me for your justification", and that the 12 preached the same. Right.

"I am just trying to find out where you are coming from as it seems that your argument is changing."-GLJCA

Mc: No, your lack of reading comprehension skills continues to deteriorate. Now, show us, chapter and verse, where:

The Lord Jesus Christ preached in Mt.-John, prior to the dbr "I am going to die for your sins...be buried....be raised for your justification...believe on this and be saved". Show us where the 12 ever preached this "the" gospel prior to the dbr.

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

GLJCA · Oct 25, 2006

Mc:
1. There you go with "the" gospel. You assume tthat there is just one "the gospel."

it is a pretty safe assumption since it aligns with what the Bible says. Also since I have shown you that it is the same gospel that Jesus instructed Peter and Paul and the rest of the disciples to preach.

2. Where did I cite that? Show me. Quote me. Let's go. I have not addressed that issue(as yet). The only issue I am addressing with you, REPPY, is the crux of the issue: is there more than one "the" gospel, i.e., is your "argument" credible that the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4. And I dismantled it with scripture. No one was preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, AT LEAST PRIOR to the dbr ,as a basis for justification, while John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12 were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, they are not the same, and scripture refutes you. And no amount of scripture evidencing any argument,mine or anyone else's, supporting that only Paul was, after the dbr, preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, and not the 12, would be profitable, and would not convince anyone who cannot distinguish the difference between the gospel of the kingdom and 1 Cor. 15:1-4. If one cannot see prior to the dbr what the gospel of the kingdom is, such as yourself, than no amount of scriptural evidence after the dbr can persuade this person after the dbr who holds to the mindset of the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4="homogeneous" "the" gospel. And why? No discernment is possible, since this person thinks "gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4", and must conclude that "they all preached the same thing." Acts 8:30? No.

John are you saying that you do not stand with EPH on whether Paul preached a different gospel than Peter? If you do not then I owe you an apology. Although, why have you been in a discussion when you are presenting something completely different than what the discussion is about?

GLJCA

GLJCA · Oct 25, 2006

Where???? How many times do I have to ask you: where? Who is confusing bible passages and mixing it all up? You see no difference in "footstool" and "under His feet", which is somewhat understandable (but that's the difference between Psalm 8 and 110, not sure you can grasp that though); and you see no difference in God subjecting the enemies under Christ and Christ subjecting His enemies under Himself; you confuse "Christ reigning" with "enemies subjected", etc., etc. It's all confusion.

Because I am away from the computer so much I miss alot of the comments and therefore I don't comment on them. I just went back today and found this one among many that I missed. I will try to answer the ones that are the most important. You must remember that there is one of me and several of you so because of the mountain of questions that I have to deal with I will probably miss some questions.

First holdon it seems that you are misunderstanding Psa 8. It does not say that Christ will subject His enemies under His feet. It says that thou(God) will do that. Again there is no scripture in the Bible that says that Jesus will put His enemies under His feet. God will do that while Christ is seated on His right hand. Paul on the other hand says that Christ will reign until all His enemies are made His footstool. So logically while His enemies are being made His footstool at the right hand of the Father, Christ is reigning.

It is really that simple.

GLJCA

GLJCA · Oct 25, 2006

You have no proof He is reigning over this world. Where and when was it in the news?

It is all over the news, Holdon. Everything that happens in the newspaper is because of Christ's power over His creation. The sun comes up because of Christ's power. The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord and he turns it which ever way he wants. Christ has all authority over all things and all things have been given to Him.

The fact that you can't see that should bother you.

GLJCA

GLJCA · Oct 25, 2006

2. Where did I cite that? Show me. Quote me. Let's go. I have not addressed that issue(as yet). The only issue I am addressing with you, REPPY, is the crux of the issue: is there more than one "the" gospel, i.e., is your "argument" credible that the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4. And I dismantled it with scripture. No one was preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, AT LEAST PRIOR to the dbr ,as a basis for justification, while John the Baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12 were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, they are not the same, and scripture refutes you. And no amount of scripture evidencing any argument,mine or anyone else's, supporting that only Paul was, after the dbr, preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4, and not the 12, would be profitable, and would not convince anyone who cannot distinguish the difference between the gospel of the kingdom and 1 Cor. 15:1-4. If one cannot see prior to the dbr what the gospel of the kingdom is, such as yourself, than no amount of scriptural evidence after the dbr can persuade this person after the dbr who holds to the mindset of the gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4="homogeneous" "the" gospel. And why? No discernment is possible, since this person thinks "gospel of the kingdom=1 Cor. 15:1-4", and must conclude that "they all preached the same thing." Acts 8:30? No.

Here it is, John.

"God's Word shows that the gospel that Paul preached is the same gospel that Peter preached, yet you say they are different." -GLJCA

GLJCA's "ideas" vs. the Holy Bible

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:..." 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

Peter preached "the gospel of the kingdom":

"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, andJudas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:1-8

"The" gospel Peter preached, prior to the death, burial, and resurrection, was the same "the" gospel the Lord Jesus Christ preached, the same "the" gospel John the Baptist preached-"the gospel of the kingdom":

Now I have to admit that you did come back and narrow your argument down to before the DBR. So am I to understand that after the DBR you admit that Paul and Peter preached the same gospel to both Jew and Gentile? I have shown that Paul preached the same gospel that Peter preached. So by what you are saying, you believe that before the DBR there was a diffferent gospel but after the DBR there was only one gospel that all of the disciples preached, right?

GLJCA

eph3Nine · Oct 25, 2006

GLJCA said:
It is all over the news, Holdon. Everything that happens in the newspaper is because of Christ's power over His creation. The sun comes up because of Christ's power. The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord and he turns it which ever way he wants. Christ has all authority over all things and all things have been given to Him.

The fact that you can't see that should bother you.

GLJCA

MY bible says that satan is the god of this world....hmmmmm...maybe its because covenant theology folks have to contradict the Word of God to make THEIR theology "fit".

When was Christ given dominion and authority over all things?

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