My Day in Jail

JesusWalks78 · Oct 22, 2006

I spent the better part of a day in the Central Police Station holding cells.

I think this will make for a good ethical/biblical debate.

On saturday morning I was going to do my marketting (fruit and veges) when I walked past a store where there was a commotion in a takeaway resteraunt....I entered to see a woman and a small boy standing to one side, the woman was crying and a man leaning over one of the tables throwing punches towards the ground I looked down and saw a little girl (I later found out was four years old) on the receiving end of a serious beating from a man that was her father, her face was bleeding and swollen.

I stepped in and pulled the man off her and after seeing she was still moving (she got up and ran to the woman)......I lost my temper, I believe in discipling children and a spanking on the buttocks or a belt strap across the buttocks is not going to kill them...but beating on a small defenceless chil with closed fists all over the head and body is not right under any circumstance....and I beat this man.

Long story short, they had to carry him out of the resteraunt on a stretcher.

Now personally I feel no remorse for what I did to him, any man that beats his children like animals, deserves to be beaten like an animal. I will not apologise for what I did. I spent my day in jail and made bail and will appear in court next month.

The problems I see are that I lost my temper, I hated that man for a moment and I used violence to solve the problem of violence.

I did however pay for his medical treatment and for the resetting of his broken bones.

The question is do you believe I was wrong on a secular level or biblical level? What would you have done?

YamiB · Oct 22, 2006

I think that considering the circumstances your actions are understandable. I think that if the situation is taken into account that it is ok resting on the fact that his life was spared.

Was is voluntary that you payed for his medical bills? If so I think that shows that though you would not forgive him that though he may have deserved the treatment that you should be above such actions.

I can't say for sure how I would have acted. As I am not the most physically powerful or violent person I don't think I would have gone to the degree that you did. But I think I would have used force to attempt stopping him, and if I did stop him I very well could have carried on. It is hard to tell how far I would have gone without being the situation.

mnbvcxz87 · Oct 22, 2006

Intervening was the right thing to do, but unecessary violence wasn't.

JesusWalks78 · Oct 22, 2006

YamiB said:
I think that considering the circumstances your actions are understandable. I think that if the situation is taken into account that it is ok resting on the fact that his life was spared.

I never intended on killing him.

Was is voluntary that you payed for his medical bills? If so I think that shows that though you would not forgive him that though he may have deserved the treatment that you should be above such actions.

I paid for his medical bill, plus his daughters because it was the right thing to do.

I can't say for sure how I would have acted. As I am not the most physically powerful or violent person I don't think I would have gone to the degree that you did. But I think I would have used force to attempt stopping him, and if I did stop him I very well could have carried on. It is hard to tell how far I would have gone without being the situation.

What scares me, and I have said that anger is my demon, the thing that I battle hardest against......I have trained in martial arts for 19 years now, I know how to hurt people (that is not said with pride, but I learnt as a traditional obligation to my social station), and I hurt him pretty bad.

For me I saw an injustice and stepped up to counter it, maybe it isnt the most productive way but I hope he learnt a lesson about being defencless and being beaten on and not being able to do anything about it....like a grown man beating up a little girl.

JesusWalks78 · Oct 22, 2006

mnbvcxz87 said:
Intervening was the right thing to do, but unecessary violence wasn't.

How did you getto the point to say that my violence was uneccesary?

Lord_Marx · Oct 22, 2006

It's hard to say whether "fighting fire with fire" is morally right or wrong. Personally I think it depends on the circumstances. Could you have just restrained the man and had him arrested? (I'm not sure what constitutes abuse in your country and how heavily it's enforced).

I think that although never good, there are circumstances in which a violent act may be the lesser of two evils.

fillerbunny · Oct 22, 2006

I'm with MX. I think intervention was the right thing to do, but (while I can certainly understand your anger and frustration) beating the man to the extent that he was left with broken bones and had to be carried away on a stretcher was unnecessary.

français · Oct 22, 2006

hitting any child, whether it be beating the child or even a swat is absolutely horrible.. so props to you for kicking his ass!! now of course I would have tried to talk peacefully and tell him to stop and such before using violence.

I think God would be proud for standing up for innocent people, but at the same time be mad for you hurting someone. You should pray and appologize.

So yeah, personally I think that you should have simply told the man to stop first and then called the police before you beat him up, but I can understand why you would.

JesusWalks78 · Oct 22, 2006

Lord_Marx said:
It's hard to say whether "fighting fire with fire" is morally right or wrong. Personally I think it depends on the circumstances. Could you have just restrained the man and had him arrested? (I'm not sure what constitutes abuse in your country and how heavily it's enforced).

I think that although never good, there are circumstances in which a violent act may be the lesser of two evils.

There is a line that is drawn as I said strapping ones child here is not abuse, but beatings are (like the one he was dishing out).

I could have restrained the man, but he resisted and got angry so i took a pre emptive measure and took him out. On top ofthat he was about twice my size, and already had demonstrated a violent streak....I have a son, I wasnt going to take any risks.

mnbvcxz87 · Oct 22, 2006

How did you getto the point to say that my violence was uneccesary?

Well I wasn't there but I can picture the situation. I would imagine approaching the man aggressively and pushing him away, but as filler said violence to the extent where he was carried off on a stretcher and suffered broken bones sounds as if it was uneccesarily violent. I understand male testosterone can kick in, but even so.

You mention that,

I have said that anger is my demon, the thing that I battle hardest against

Many great thinkers and philosophers have held the idea that meat consumption in a person can lead to a them behaving more aggressively. From my own experience switching to vegan foods has calmed my temperament, and here are some thoughts on the matter,

“If you want to be spiritually higher you must be a vegetarian. In India It is said that what ever you eat It is reflected in your mind, so if you eat vegetarian you become purer and purer, and It is reflected in your mind. Those who want to go to spiritualism have to ultimately go to vegetarianism because if you are not a vegetarian your thoughts are disturbing and you can not achieve the higher things you want to achieve. Even in yoga, It is sometimes said that It is not necessary to change your diet but ultimately It is the change of the diet which starts the ball rolling.”— Jashu Shah

“It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.”—Albert Einstein

“If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.”—Francis of Assisi

JesusWalks78 · Oct 22, 2006

kjf512 said:
hitting any child, whether it be beating the child or even a swat is absolutely horrible.. so props to you for kicking his ass!! now of course I would have tried to talk peacefully and tell him to stop and such before using violence.

I think God would be proud for standing up for innocent people, but at the same time be mad for you hurting someone. You should pray and appologize.

So yeah, personally I think that you should have simply told the man to stop first and then called the police before you beat him up, but I can understand why you would.

In Fiji if you call the cops it could take a good hour before they arrive, the child could have been dead by then.

MercyBurst · Oct 22, 2006

JesusWalks78 said:
I spent the better part of a day in the Central Police Station holding cells.

I think this will make for a good ethical/biblical debate.

On saturday morning I was going to do my marketting (fruit and veges) when I walked past a store where there was a commotion in a takeaway resteraunt....I entered to see a woman and a small boy standing to one side, the woman was crying and a man leaning over one of the tables throwing punches towards the ground I looked down and saw a little girl (I later found out was four years old) on the receiving end of a serious beating from a man that was her father, her face was bleeding and swollen.

I stepped in and pulled the man off her and after seeing she was still moving (she got up and ran to the woman)......I lost my temper, I believe in discipling children and a spanking on the buttocks or a belt strap across the buttocks is not going to kill them...but beating on a small defenceless chil with closed fists all over the head and body is not right under any circumstance....and I beat this man.

Long story short, they had to carry him out of the resteraunt on a stretcher.

Now personally I feel no remorse for what I did to him, any man that beats his children like animals, deserves to be beaten like an animal. I will not apologise for what I did. I spent my day in jail and made bail and will appear in court next month.

The problems I see are that I lost my temper, I hated that man for a moment and I used violence to solve the problem of violence.

I did however pay for his medical treatment and for the resetting of his broken bones.

The question is do you believe I was wrong on a secular level or biblical level? What would you have done?

Man JW, I didn't know you had that kind of fight in you. Impressive.

OK, I'd recommend you take a look at Moses's incident with the egyptian soldier he killed for beating a hebrew slave.

On the one hand you lost your temper, but on the other hand you had a reasonable cause. This abusive father could kill that child someday, and your action may be just what was needed to stop the abuse.

As for the cops helping out -- fat chance. As a crime victim, I can personally vouch that it's all just another routine day of business for them. Where are the cops when you need them?

français · Oct 22, 2006

Ohh, I didn't see where you lived.. I see.

mnbvcxz87 · Oct 22, 2006

OK, I'd recommend you take a look at Moses's incident with the egyptian soldier he killed for beating a hebrew slave.

On the one hand you lost your temper, but on the other hand you had a reasonable cause. This abusive father could kill that child someday, and your action may be just what was needed to stop the abuse.

Is it sensible to use the actions of a man who lived thousands of years ago as a moral yardstick?

JesusWalks78 · Oct 22, 2006

mnbvcxz87 said:
Well I wasn't there but I can picture the situation. I would imagine approaching the man aggressively and pushing him away, but as filler said violence to the extent where he was carried off on a stretcher and suffered broken bones sounds as if it was uneccesarily violent. I understand male testosterone can kick in, but even so.

The broken bones is how I am trained to fight, it is the easiest way to stop an opponent or attacker. Thats just my training (HAPKIDO)....the most basic and simple movements in my art breaks bones or strikes to specific weak points on the human body.

You mention that,

Many great thinkers and philosophers have held the idea that meat consumption in a person can lead to a them behaving more aggressively. From my own experience switching to vegan foods has calmed my temperament, and here are some thoughts on the matter,

If you want to be spiritually higher you must be a vegetarian. In India It is said that what ever you eat It is reflected in your mind, so if you eat vegetarian you become purer and purer, and It is reflected in your mind. Those who want to go to spiritualism have to ultimately go to vegetarianism because if you are not a vegetarian your thoughts are disturbing and you can not achieve the higher things you want to achieve. Even in yoga, It is sometimes said that It is not necessary to change your diet but ultimately It is the change of the diet which starts the ball rolling. Jashu Shah

It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.Albert Einstein

If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.Francis of Assisi

I am not getting into this vege argument and would hope you do not attempt to derail this thread with it.

mnbvcxz87 · Oct 22, 2006

I am not getting into this vege argument and would hope you do not attempt to derail this thread with it.

It's on topic. You mentioned you have trouble dealing with anger, that's what it's about, temperament.

The broken bones is how I am trained to fight, it is the easiest way to stop an opponent or attacker. Thats just my training (HAPKIDO)....the most basic and simple movements in my art breaks bones or strikes to specific weak points on the human body.

I realise how effective martial arts techniques are, that doesn't mean it's ok to break someone's bones.

Adriac · Oct 22, 2006

Morally I really don't have a problem with it, but logistically I'm ambivalent for two reasons. First, generally people don't respond well to violence. I'd like to think that the man would take it as a wake up call and treat his daughter better in the future, but realistically it will likely have the opposite effect. Secondly, it muddies the waters of the incident legally, and could make it harder in the long run for his daughter to get what she really needs— taken away.

MercyBurst · Oct 22, 2006

mnbvcxz87 said:
Is it sensible to use the actions of a man who lived thousands of years ago as a moral yardstick?

Yes. The moral yardstick from Moses is the basis for western civilization.

I add one little tweek for JW, because I didn't realize he is a martial arts expert: watch that temper because it can be very dangerous.

JesusWalks78 · Oct 22, 2006

mnbvcxz87 said:
It's on topic. You mentioned you have trouble dealing with anger, that's what it's about, temperament.

The thread is not about temperment, its about right and wrong.

I realise how effective martial arts techniques are, that doesn't mean it's ok to break someone's bones.

Like I said if I use the basic techniques, something is going snap.

Lord_Marx · Oct 22, 2006

If you had no way to knock him out or subdue without breaking his bones I think it would be justified.

However, I'm afraid that the idea that you could teach him a lesson and therefore stop him from hurting others in the future is just foolish. If anything he will just end up taking out his anger over his defeat on other people who cannot fight back.

My Day in Jail

JesusWalks78

Guest

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

JesusWalks78

Guest

JesusWalks78

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Atheist/CA-Bloc Québécois/US-Democrat

JesusWalks78

Guest

Well-Known Member

JesusWalks78

Guest

Senior Veteran

Atheist/CA-Bloc Québécois/US-Democrat

Well-Known Member

JesusWalks78

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

JesusWalks78

Guest

Well-Known Member

Similar threads