The Kosher Judaism Thread

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stillsmallvoice

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Hi all!

Jayda06 (hi there! :) ), I'm not entirely clear what exactly you're trying to ask/getting at. Could you please elaborate?

Our great sage Shammai (who has been stuck with undeserved reputation for frumpiness; see http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/shammai.htm) says, "Receive all men [not just Jews - ssv] with a cheerful countenance."

A Roman smart-aleck went to Shammai's house and said, "Teach me the entire Torah while I stand on one foot." Shammai threw him out. The Roman smart-aleck went to Shammai's colleague Hillel's (http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/hillel.htm) house and repeated his question. Hillel looked at him and said, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Now go and study!" (Impressed, the Roman began to study Torah, converted to Judaism and eventually became a learned sage in his own right.) Judaism (http://www.jewfaq.org/toc.htm) is open to all who wish to come & study! :)

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv :wave:
 
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stillsmallvoice

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Hi all!

Well, Yom Kippur (http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday4.htm) starts this Sunday at sunset & runs until nightfall on Monday.

We'll read the Book of Jonah during afternoon prayers on Monday.

Jonah 1:15 says:

So they [the sailors] took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea...

Yet in 2:4, Jonah says:

For You [God] cast me into the depth, in the heart of the seas...

There is no contradiction. Both verses are entirely correct. While the sailors did the actual, physical work of chucking Jonah overboard, they were merely God's tools. Thus, when Jonah says it was God who cast him into the sea, he is correct. Jonah's
For You [God] cast me into the depth, in the heart of the seas...
is the same as Joseph's remark to his dumbfounded brothers in Genesis 45:8
So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God...

Joseph & Jonah both know that while God may not be the proximate cause of any given thing, He is the Ultimate Cause of all things.

The rabbi at our old synagogue in our old neighborhood in Jerusalem once gave a brilliant (I think) talk about Jonah. God has something He wants Jonah to do (go to Nineveh, but that's beside the point). The first time God wanted to get Jonah's attention (1:2), He asked him nicely. But Jonah wasn't keen; he tried to run away from God, and boarded the boat for Tarshish. God tried to get Jonah's attention a second time, this time not so nicely (i.e. He hurled a storm at the boat). Jonah still wasn't keen; he went down in the hold of the ship & went to sleep. God tried a third time to get Jonah's attention, this time very un-nicely; i.e. He cast him into the belly of the whale. Now Jonah had no choice but to pour his heart out to God & turn to Him with all his soul (because otherwise he was doomed). Our rabbi said that how often in our lives do we try to evade what we know to be what God wants us to do by trying to run away from Him (so to speak) or by going to spiritual sleep & pretending not to hear Him? When God wants to get our attention, the first time, He'll ask nicely. If we don't listen, the next time may be not so nicely. And if we still don't listen, then He may put us into a position where we have no choice but to turn to Him and pour out our hearts to Him.

Our rabbi made one more fascinating comment. He noted where Jonah fled to. He fled to the west (Tarshish is in Spain, far to the west of the Holy Land), not to the desert to the east, or to Egypt & Syria in the south & north, respectively, but to Tarshish, in the west. When we want to run away from God and the way He wants us to lead our lives, our rabbi said, we're still running to the west, to the empty materialism & permissive hedonism of modern Western culture. Like Jonah, we're still fleeing to the west.

On Yom Kippur 1999, I was walking to afternoon prayers with Yohanan (who was then almost 3) on my shoulders & he was telling me all about Jonah (i.e. as he heard it from his 1/2-day daycare). DW & I try not to hit Da Boyz, as a means of disciplining them, except as a last resort in exceptional circumstances. We're into giving time-outs, i.e. if Da Boyz do something naughty, they're sent to their room, to stay there for a while, alone, with the door closed. So, as Yohanan & I were discussing Jonah, he told me that, "Jonah tried to run away from God." I asked him if that made God happy or angry. Yohanan said, "God got very angry," and then told me how God put Jonah, "in the fish's tummy," as a, "big punishment." Yohanan was quiet for a few seconds and then he told me, "Daddy, God gave Jonah a time-out."
smile.gif


In 2004 on Yom Kippur, Naor (who was then almost 4) told DW & I that, "Jonah tasted yucky and that is why the fish spit him out."
smile.gif


In the spring of last year, we met my uncle (from the US) in Tel Aviv & went to Old Jaffa (http://www.tel-aviv.gov.il/English/Tourism/Sites/Jaffa.htm). As we walked along the port (passing Simon the Tanner's house), looking at the boats, I told Da Boyz that we were at the very spot where Jonah boarded a boat & tried to "run away from God." They were very impressed!

Perhaps, the reason why we read Jonah on YK is
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way...

God saw not their jaw-jawing but their actions.

Our Sages identify Jonah with the same mentioned in II Kings 14:25 but believe that he prophesied well before Jeroboam II's actual reign. Our Sages identify Jonah with the prophet sent by Elisha to annoint Jehu (II Kings 9:1).

Our Sages teach that Jonah feared that it would look bad for us if the non-Jews of Nineveh repented after being admonished only once while we had stubbornly refused repeated admonitions to repent. Not wanting to make us thus look bad, he fled. When you realize that to the ancients Spain & the Straits of Gibraltar were the edge of the world, Jonah was trying not merely to leave the Holy Land but to get as far away from it as he possibly could.

I've always thought that God's
"You had pity on the gourd, for which you neither labored nor made grow, which came up in a night, and perished in a night;and should not I have pity on Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than six score thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand, and also much cattle?"
gives the lie to those who claim that it's, "My way or the highway to hell," & that unless you believe a certain way God doesn't give two hoots for you.

I use Jonah as an example to teach our boys that we can never run away from God. This past summer, we went to a park just outside Jerusalem where there is a natural spring-fed pool. The water flows into the pool through a tunnel which, with a flashlight, you can follow all the way back underground to the source of the spring. Naor & I were in there & we turned off the flashlight to experience the pitch darkness. Naor said, "Daddy, God can see us even in here, right?" (I love that kid!)

Be well!

ssv :wave:
 
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Ivy

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I've always thought that God's gives the lie to those who claim that it's, "My way or the highway to hell," & that unless you believe a certain way God doesn't give two hoots for you.

Seems like an interesting tie-in with the last few posts. A lot of Christians are mystified as to why Jews don't proselytize....there's kind of an idea with us that people have to pick exactly the right doctrine or they're going to hell, and we have to try and keep other people out of there by giving the right doctrine to others (or maybe forcing it on them? :sorry: ).

I think some Christians read the lack of proselytizing as...."they don't care if we go to hell," or something.....so imagine my surprise one day when someone told me, "Jews don't think you are going to hell in the first place; they believe that all the righteous have a share in the world to come." Which I thought was so wonderful. It really changed my entire impression.

BTW, I've had nothing but hospitality & courtesy as I've been studying :)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Seems like an interesting tie-in with the last few posts. A lot of Christians are mystified as to why Jews don't proselytize....there's kind of an idea with us that people have to pick exactly the right doctrine or they're going to hell, and we have to try and keep other people out of there by giving the right doctrine to others (or maybe forcing it on them? :sorry: ).

I think some Christians read the lack of proseletizing as...."they don't care if we go to hell," or something.....so imagine my surprise one day when someone told me, "Jews don't think you are going to hell in the first place; they believe that all the righteous have a share in the world to come." Which I thought was so wonderful. It really changed my entire impression.

BTW, I've had nothing but hospitality & courtesy as I've been studying :)
That Greek/Hebrew word in the GNT has been the source of a lot rather "tortuous" teachings.

The Apostle Paul never once used that word in any of His epistles.

I have had many atheists tell me they never knew that. All Paul said was Sin was Death. Anyway, just a little rambling from me.
The number "12" is an interesting number in the Bible :wave:

geenna (Strong's 1067) occurs 12 times in 12 verses:
 
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stillsmallvoice

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Hi all!

Well, Sukkot (Tabernacles; http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday5.htm) starts this Friday night. Since the first day of Sukkot falls on Shabbat & there is no Shabbat during the intermediate days of Sukkot, we will read the Book of Ecclesiastes during moring prayers this Saturday.

I posted about Ecclesiastes (my favorite book of the Tanakh) last year (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=19295810&postcount=109). I'll add some comments for this year.

Ecclesiastes 4:6 says:

Better is a handful of quietness, than both hands full of labor and striving after wind.

This is such a gem! It is something that I aspire to, to achieve a handful of quietness and be content with it. This verse tells me to me modest in my appetites & ambitions. The rabbi at our synagogue spoke about this (sort of) in his Kol Nidre (http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday4.htm) sermon on Yom Kippur eve this past Sunday evening. Thank God, but my only ambitions are to be a good husband & father and son and brother, of course, but husband and father are more important & immediate to me, I think, because my parents & my brother are far away and they're adults; their characters are already formed. DW is my life's partner and together we are raising Da Boyz, loving them and giving them values to live by and helping to form their characters. My career is more important than that??!! Bah! I think about Ecclesiastes 4:6 alot.

Ecclesiastes 5:14 says:

As he came forth from his mother's womb, naked shall he go back as he came, and shall take nothing for his labor, which he may carry away in his hand.

I think that we learn from this that a Jew is to bne buried wrapped only in an opaque white shroud, but wearing no clothes per se. The shroud matches the sheet/blanket that a newborn is wrapped in.

Yohanan commented to me once a few years back about the elderly grandmother of one of his friends, who lived in the friend's house, and how his friend & his family had to help her do just about everything. I thought about this verse & told Yohanan that just as a baby can't look after itself and depends on people who love him/her to help it, so too very old people often can't look after themselves and depend on people who love them to take care of them.

The part about taking nothing with you ties in to Ecclesiasties 5:12
There is a grievous evil which I have seen under the sun, namely, riches kept by their owner to his hurt
. One of my rabbis says that this refers to the miserly and the stingy who, proud in their possessions, are hesitant to give to tzedaka ( ). The phrase "You can't take it with you" (as per 5:14) is certainly true (except for Korah, he took it all with him. but he was a special case) but, my rabbi says, it is precisely what we give away that we take with us. When we stand before God in judgement in the next world, every cent that we have given to tzedaka will be there in our merit, to plead for us.

Ecclesiastes 7:21-22 says:

Also take not heed unto all words that are spoken, lest you hear your servant curse you; for often also your own heart knows that you yourself likewise have cursed others.

This tells me not only not to look for slights but to ignore them (most of them) & to not take offense easily. i.e. not to sweat the small stuff.

I can't even begin to figure out 12:2-6. Ooooo....

And lastly...

The end of the matter, all having been heard: fear God, and keep His commandments; for this is the whole man.

Can't beat this!

Note: The original Hebrew word (y'ra) used for "fear" in the above does not be "be afraid/frightened of" (which, in Hebrew, would be p'khad); it means something like "be in awe of".

Be well!

ssv :wave:
 
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christianmomof3

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I enjoyed reading that. I wish that I had been encouraged to read and enjoy the Bible when I was a Jew. But, God has His reasons for everything. I am now enjoying Him and His word as a Christian. My sister, who still practices Judaism and goes to a different reform synagogue than we did growing up said they had a children's/family Yom Kippur service. They did not do anything like that when we were kids. It was hours and hours of torture to us kids. She said the service was only one hour and very child oriented with guitars and children's songs. That sounds wonderful for the children, but I do wonder if the adults are getting all that they should out of it.
Enjoy the Lord this week!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The end of the matter, all having been heard: fear God, and keep His commandments; for this is the whole man.
Can't beat this!
Note: The original Hebrew word (y'ra) used for "fear" in the above does not be "be afraid/frightened of" (which, in Hebrew, would be p'khad); it means something like "be in awe of".
Be well!
ssv
Shalom.Interesting and I will have to study more on translations. And thanks.

Most christians and Muslims await this "AWE" inspiring event to happen after the Jew's Messiah shows up. Pretty AWEsome!!! :wave:

Zech 14:5 Then you shall flee [through] My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD/Y@hovah MY GOD/'elohiym will come, [And] all the saints with You.
ezekiel 39:13 "Indeed all the people of the Land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the Day that I am Glorified," says the 'Adonay Y@hovih.
 
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muffler dragon

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Does anyone know what the sages say regarding David taking 5 stones with him when he went to face Goliath? It only took one stone to kill Goliath, so what is the symbolism of the 4 remaining stones?

I don't recall the source, but I remember hearing one time that Goliath had four brothers. I don't know if it's true or not.
 
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stillsmallvoice

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Hi all!

Well, our weeklong Sukkot (http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday5.htm) & Shemini Atzeret/Simkhat Torah (http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday6.htm) holydays are over & tomorrow it's back to the grind...

So...

chunkofcoal said:
Does anyone know what the sages say regarding David taking 5 stones with him when he went to face Goliath? It only took one stone to kill Goliath, so what is the symbolism of the 4 remaining stones?

Our very great medieval sage Rabbi David Kimchi (http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/rabbis/radak.htm) says that the five stones represented God, Aaron and Abraham, Isaac & Jacob. Rabbi Kimchi cites a midrash that God wanted a piece of Goliath because he had defamed Him. Aaron wanted a piece of Goliath in revenge for his having killed his descendants Hophni & Phineas (Eli's sons), according to another midrash. The Patriarchs wanted a piece of Goliath for having defamed their descendants.

Howzat? :)

This past Wednesday, DW & I performed the tashlikh ceremony (http://www.ou.org/chagim/roshhashannah/tashlich.html) in the En Fara spring in Nahal Perat/Wadi Qelt (see http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=27853534#post27853534) just east of our Jerusalem suburb of Maaleh Adumim. There's no suitable source of water where we go for Ros Hashanah & so we did it on Wednesday (yesterday being the last possible day to do tashlikh). Throwing away bits of old bread symbolizes our throwing away old sins from the past year & our resolve to start afresh.

This past Wednesday, I hiked up the Sartaba (see http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=27853534#post27853534 again) in the Jordan Valley. As I stood up there (almost getting stoned on the incredible quiet & solitude as I took in the awesome view), I thought: Here, the Romans destroyed this place & thought they were destroying us. Yet +/- 2,000 years later, the Romans are gone but a Jew stands here. To find about Rome & its empire, you have to go to a library or a museum. But to find about the Jews they thought they had vanquished, you can ask us. Am Yisrael chai!

Be well!

ssv :wave:
 
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Pats

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lol...but stillsmallvoice is jewish... isnt that kind of like telling me im wrong about a word in spanish...

Personally, I am always blessed by His stillsmallvoice. It beats the heck out of when He has to pick up a rock to get my attention, lol. ;)

But seriously, Christianity is so rooted in Judaism. It just reminds me how well the scriptures flow together, from a Christian perspective. :)
 
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039

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Hello hello.

I was directed to this thread, and I wanted to ask a question, actually.

I try to be as scholarly as I can when it comes to issues pertaining my faith. I know little about the Judaistic view when it comes to how they view G-d or the scriptures, so I was lucky to find a book on sale today at a thrift store called "Amen: The Diary of Rabbi Martin Siegel". Reviewing over it, I came to a sermon pertaining G-d.

Rabbi Martin Siegel said:
...Westernized Jews find it difficult to realize that their God is greater than any explanation, that their God is only a code word, a symbol. Call it the wall, call it the air, call it anything because its only reality is that it stands as a code for that which is real. What is God is that there is more than me in the world, and more than you, and more than me and you, yet, that is what God is - me and you. God is the undiscovered dimension to life which man does not know and will never know, something that he can only fleetingly experience through relationships with other humans and, thus, with God. God is the backdrop in front of which man stands.

...A true Jew does not believe in God. He believes that God can be a vital force in the expression of Man's life. People without belief think there is nothing more to them but themselves. How can one look at the great adventure called life, having a genuine feeling for it, if he believes that he himself is so important? In light of what I can be or what I could do, or in light of how little I really know, how can I be arrogant enough to worship myself? The essence of what I call religion is a realization of the inadequacy of man with respect to all that is around him - a sense of wonder, call it what you will.

And pertaining scripture and little more of G-d:

Rabbi Martin Siegel said:
...one myth is the story, another is its interpretation, and they form an infinite number of combinations. Myth upon myth, the Bible can be interpreted and reinterpreted and then, and only then, can we find ourselves our own ultimate myth of substance in our existence...

...In the beginning, man obviously worshipped nature and animals, but then through his creation and flood myths, it becomes apparent that he began to believe in himself, in his own power to do things, to overcome things. Nature did its worst; a flood ravished the earth. And man prevailed. That's the point. For the first time man saw himself as the capstone of creation. This was a tremendous revolution in thought for him. But he knew he couldn't have done it himself. So he saw himself in covenant with God- something unknown and larger than himself - prevailing over animals and nature.

It confuses me as it seems, at least to my mind, almost secular. Can I trust this view? If so, can someone explain this to me better? Or is it unique and seperate to the Jewish viewpoint? If this is the case, can anyone enlighten me or recommend a book or website on the subject?

Thanks. :)

Edit: Er, sorry for jumping in with this, it seems like you're discussing something else. x.x;
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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stillsmallvoice

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Hi all!

LittleLambofJesus said:
Pats said:
But seriously, Christianity is so rooted in Judaism.

The Orthodox Jews would probably disagree on that...

I wouldn't disagree. :)

Pats said:
Personally, I am always blessed by His stillsmallvoice. It beats the heck out of when He has to pick up a rock to get my attention, lol. ;)

One of my favorite poems is Stephen Crane's The livid lightnings flashed in the clouds:

The livid lightnings flashed in the clouds;
The leaden thunders crashed.
A worshipper raised his arm.
"Hearken! Hearken! The voice of God!"

"Not so," said a man.
"The voice of God whispers in the heart
So softly
That the soul pauses,
Making no noise,
And strives for these melodies,
Distant, sighing, like faintest breath,
And all the being is still to hear."

Link: http://www.americanpoems.com/poets/stephencrane/11843

039, welcome & there's no need whatsoever to apologize for asking your question.

This article http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=13082 from the October 6 edition of The Jewish Week (of New York City) is about Rabbi Joshua Martin Siegel. It discusses his book about 1/2-way through. He was ordained a "Reform" Rabbi & wrote the book in the early 1970's. I'll respond to the excerpts you cited as follows: "Rubbish!" and "Reform nonsense!"

To a[n orthodox] Jew, God is a real, personal force in his/her life. This
A true Jew does not believe in God.
is male bovine excrement. :sick:

See http://www.jewfaq.org/g-d.htm & http://www.jewfaq.org/beliefs.htm. This http://www.torah.org/learning/basics/nutshell/index.php3 is a more detailed read.

Be well & welcome!

ssv :wave:
 
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