I've seen the long explanation, but really... what makes a Dispensationalist different than a typical Evangelical Protestant? I got a headache reading it.
Thanks,
Michael
Thanks,
Michael
Briefly explain Dispensationalism
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I hope this is helps. The quotes are taken from Charles Ryries Dispensationism. The rest of the comments are from notes that I took.
What is a dispensation?
A dispensation is a distinguishable economy in the outworking of Gods purpose.
Dispensationism views the world as a household run by God. In His household-world God is dispensing or administering its affairs according to His own will and in various stages of revelation in the passage of time.
A dispensation is from Gods viewpoint an economy; from mans viewpoint, a responsibility; and in relation to progressive revelation, a stage of it.
For instance, Gods governed Adam and Eve directly. Their responsibility was to maintain direct fellowship with Him. To do this, they were to take care of the garden and not eat from the forbidden tree. God revealed Himself directly to them.
Thats one dispensation.
There are several thoughts on just what the dispensations are. They agree that one is future the Millennial reign of Christ from Jerusalem, after the Second Coming.
Salvation and Classic Dispensationism
The basis of salvation in every age is the death of Christ; the requirement of salvation in every age is faith; the object of faith in every age is God; the content of faith changes in the various dispensations. Salvation has always been by faith. Adam knew God, walked with God and showed faith, or lack of faith, by obeying the one restriction placed on him. Noah also knew God, and showed his faith in God by building an ark on dry land. Abraham had faith in God, worshipping God and entrusting Isaac to Gods will. He didnt have the law like those from Moses on. In the dispensation of the law, it was faith that was their salvation, and one way they showed that faith is by following the law God gave. No, they couldnt be perfect. But there was forgiveness made available in the sacrifices made by the high priest for unintentional sin. And God did punish when the law was ignored. In the law, we see a shadow of a more perfect sacrifice (THE perfect sacrifice) to come.
While those that went before Christs death and resurrection understood that God was sending a Messiah, they didnt see Jesus. Even His disciples asked, at the last supper, was it time for Jesus to reign and he explained that first He had to die. John the Baptist, when he was imprisoned by Herod, sent his followers to Jesus to ask, Are you the one, or should we look for another? because he, too, expected the conquering Messiah. We, the church, see Jesus as the perfect sacrificial Lamb who died for our sins, conquered death and was resurrected. And we see that both a suffering servant and a conquering Messiah were prophesied.
Gods Grace through the Ages
God has shown His grace since the beginning. He planned the future redemption of the world from the beginning (Gen. 3:15). He showed grace by selecting Israel which was unmerited grace. He repeatedly forgave Israel, who broke the law before they ever received it. His covenant with David was an act of grace. And of course, the Incarnation, the death and resurrection of Jesus are all acts of grace. God continues to show unmerited grace in that all that believe in Jesus will be saved. (John 3:16).
Some Characteristics of Dispensationism
Not all premillenialists are dispensationists, but all dispensationists are premillenialists. That means we see a future dispensation, which is Christs millennial reign on earth, and that the Second Coming is prior to a literal millennial kingdom.
Dispensationism sees the church and Israel as separate. They are distinct from each other. We believe this is backed up in Romans 11, for instance.
Dispensationism sees the underlying purpose of God in the world as not just the salvation of the world, but to show the glory of God.
Dispensationism uses the literal method of interpretation of prophecy.
What is a dispensation?
A dispensation is a distinguishable economy in the outworking of Gods purpose.
Dispensationism views the world as a household run by God. In His household-world God is dispensing or administering its affairs according to His own will and in various stages of revelation in the passage of time.
A dispensation is from Gods viewpoint an economy; from mans viewpoint, a responsibility; and in relation to progressive revelation, a stage of it.
For instance, Gods governed Adam and Eve directly. Their responsibility was to maintain direct fellowship with Him. To do this, they were to take care of the garden and not eat from the forbidden tree. God revealed Himself directly to them.
Thats one dispensation.
There are several thoughts on just what the dispensations are. They agree that one is future the Millennial reign of Christ from Jerusalem, after the Second Coming.
Salvation and Classic Dispensationism
The basis of salvation in every age is the death of Christ; the requirement of salvation in every age is faith; the object of faith in every age is God; the content of faith changes in the various dispensations. Salvation has always been by faith. Adam knew God, walked with God and showed faith, or lack of faith, by obeying the one restriction placed on him. Noah also knew God, and showed his faith in God by building an ark on dry land. Abraham had faith in God, worshipping God and entrusting Isaac to Gods will. He didnt have the law like those from Moses on. In the dispensation of the law, it was faith that was their salvation, and one way they showed that faith is by following the law God gave. No, they couldnt be perfect. But there was forgiveness made available in the sacrifices made by the high priest for unintentional sin. And God did punish when the law was ignored. In the law, we see a shadow of a more perfect sacrifice (THE perfect sacrifice) to come.
While those that went before Christs death and resurrection understood that God was sending a Messiah, they didnt see Jesus. Even His disciples asked, at the last supper, was it time for Jesus to reign and he explained that first He had to die. John the Baptist, when he was imprisoned by Herod, sent his followers to Jesus to ask, Are you the one, or should we look for another? because he, too, expected the conquering Messiah. We, the church, see Jesus as the perfect sacrificial Lamb who died for our sins, conquered death and was resurrected. And we see that both a suffering servant and a conquering Messiah were prophesied.
Gods Grace through the Ages
God has shown His grace since the beginning. He planned the future redemption of the world from the beginning (Gen. 3:15). He showed grace by selecting Israel which was unmerited grace. He repeatedly forgave Israel, who broke the law before they ever received it. His covenant with David was an act of grace. And of course, the Incarnation, the death and resurrection of Jesus are all acts of grace. God continues to show unmerited grace in that all that believe in Jesus will be saved. (John 3:16).
Some Characteristics of Dispensationism
Not all premillenialists are dispensationists, but all dispensationists are premillenialists. That means we see a future dispensation, which is Christs millennial reign on earth, and that the Second Coming is prior to a literal millennial kingdom.
Dispensationism sees the church and Israel as separate. They are distinct from each other. We believe this is backed up in Romans 11, for instance.
Dispensationism sees the underlying purpose of God in the world as not just the salvation of the world, but to show the glory of God.
Dispensationism uses the literal method of interpretation of prophecy.
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A consistent literal approach to interpreting Scripture, a clear distinction between the Church and the nation of Israel in God's plans, and the ultimate purpose of history being God's own glory.ZeroTX said:
In Christ,
Tracey
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daveleau
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I hope this helps. Short and sweet from a couple of Bible dictionaries.
DISPENSATION:
1 The divine ordering of worldly affairs.
2 A religious system or code of commands considered to have been divinely revealed or appointed.
3 The dealing of God to his creatures; the distribution of good and evil, natural or moral, in the divine government.
4 That which is dispensed or bestowed; a system of principles and rites enjoined; as the Mosaic dispensation; the gospel dispensation; including, the former the Levitical law and rites; the latter the scheme of redemption by Christ.
EVANGELIC:
1. According to the gospel; consonant to the doctrines and precepts of the gospel, published by Christ and his apostles; as evangelical righteousness, obedience or piety.
2. Contained in the gospel; as an evangelical doctrine.
3. Sound in the doctrines of the gospel; orthodox; as an evangelical preacher.
DISPENSATION:
1 The divine ordering of worldly affairs.
2 A religious system or code of commands considered to have been divinely revealed or appointed.
3 The dealing of God to his creatures; the distribution of good and evil, natural or moral, in the divine government.
4 That which is dispensed or bestowed; a system of principles and rites enjoined; as the Mosaic dispensation; the gospel dispensation; including, the former the Levitical law and rites; the latter the scheme of redemption by Christ.
EVANGELIC:
1. According to the gospel; consonant to the doctrines and precepts of the gospel, published by Christ and his apostles; as evangelical righteousness, obedience or piety.
2. Contained in the gospel; as an evangelical doctrine.
3. Sound in the doctrines of the gospel; orthodox; as an evangelical preacher.
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Here is a synopsis of Darby's Dispensationalism
Darby's Dispensationalism
http://web.archive.org/web/20030601155341/http://www.credenda.org/issues/13-5eschaton.php
Peace in Him!
Darby's Dispensationalism
http://web.archive.org/web/20030601155341/http://www.credenda.org/issues/13-5eschaton.php
Peace in Him!
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The site in the above post is simply an article with the intent of tearing dispensationism apart, and Darby.
A better site would be this one:
http://www.dispensationalism.com/
A better site would be this one:
http://www.dispensationalism.com/
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This may be an easier link to follow . . .
The Dispensational Origins of Modern Premillennialism
http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/cathouse/darby.htm
Peace in Him!
The Dispensational Origins of Modern Premillennialism
http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/cathouse/darby.htm
Peace in Him!
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Here is another which shows the origin of Darby's dispensationalist thought to a vision of Margaret MacDonald in 1830
http://www.fwponline.cc/v9n1reasoner.html
Peace in Him!
John Darby traveled to Scotland to visit the MacDonald home. Darby was a lawyer until a year after his conversion when he was ordained a deacon in the Church of England. Soon after entering the ministry he became disillusioned with the institutional church and started the Brethren movement in Plymouth, England. Darby became known as the father of dispensationalism, the first eschatology to incorporate the "prophecy" of Margaret MacDonald. Darby continued to develop this new view by becoming the first to make a radical distinction between Israel and the Church. Darby taught that God has two special groups of people (or two brides) and a separate plan for each of them. This meant Christ would have to return twice.
Darby had a pessimistic view of the Church, teaching that it would end in apostasy. Only a remnant would be secretly raptured out (namely those who followed Darby). Of course, this secret rapture was so secret that no one had ever heard of it for 1800 years! The Church was a parenthesis in God's original plan because of the supposed failure of Christ to set up His kingdom while He was on earth. When He comes again to set up the kingdom, for some strange reason, the temple will be rebuilt and animal sacrifices re-instituted. By the time Darby had finished dividing the Word of Truth there were seven dispensations, five judgments, two brides, two new covenants, two kingdoms, two advents, two resurrections, a 2000 year gap in Daniel's seventy weeks, and eight separate Plymouth Brethren denominations.
Darby had a pessimistic view of the Church, teaching that it would end in apostasy. Only a remnant would be secretly raptured out (namely those who followed Darby). Of course, this secret rapture was so secret that no one had ever heard of it for 1800 years! The Church was a parenthesis in God's original plan because of the supposed failure of Christ to set up His kingdom while He was on earth. When He comes again to set up the kingdom, for some strange reason, the temple will be rebuilt and animal sacrifices re-instituted. By the time Darby had finished dividing the Word of Truth there were seven dispensations, five judgments, two brides, two new covenants, two kingdoms, two advents, two resurrections, a 2000 year gap in Daniel's seventy weeks, and eight separate Plymouth Brethren denominations.
http://www.fwponline.cc/v9n1reasoner.html
Peace in Him!
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Jesus died once for all just once.
Changing a view that was allready set into place means that you have something against the old set of beliefes or rules.
One could ask just how one know when God wants somethig changed.
If we were to have diffrent aproaches to salvation, Jesus would have surley told us so.
But that is not the case -- everything the early christians did and what they confessed, is still standing today.
There is no doubt in my mind that the truth is at the origins of christianity (ultimate truth in Jesus Christ) and, we should look there for the truth.
I can't believe christians lived worng lifes untill Marhtin Luther came and he corrected the faith; or any other that comes and says he knows better.
Jesus on the other hand adivced us about the wolves in sheep's clothes.
Changing a view that was allready set into place means that you have something against the old set of beliefes or rules.
One could ask just how one know when God wants somethig changed.
If we were to have diffrent aproaches to salvation, Jesus would have surley told us so.
But that is not the case -- everything the early christians did and what they confessed, is still standing today.
There is no doubt in my mind that the truth is at the origins of christianity (ultimate truth in Jesus Christ) and, we should look there for the truth.
I can't believe christians lived worng lifes untill Marhtin Luther came and he corrected the faith; or any other that comes and says he knows better.
Jesus on the other hand adivced us about the wolves in sheep's clothes.
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Donny_B
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Dispensationalism was greatly influenced by C.I. Scofield and the Scofield Reference Bible (which you can find on the internet). Scofield saw 7 dispensations, whereas those of us with a Reformed background traditionally know of 2 "dispensations", which we call covenants, the covenant of works and the covenant of grace (just as there are 2 testaments, the Old and the New).
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Yes, Scofield, in condening Darby's teaching and including them in his bible gave Darby's dispensationalism greater credibility than it had before received and greatly popularized it . . Actually being presented in the bible along side made it more believable and it spread through Evangelical Christainity .Donny_B said:
Peace in Him!
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Pre Milleneists try to go back farther than Darby to somehow sho that Dispensationalism and Pre Miil Rapture did not start with Darby, or those he had contact with, the Irvingites and Margret McDonald . . . so they look to Morgan Edwards and use a couple of publications of his to bolster thier position ..
But what they leave out about Morgan Edwards and his "works" on this subject is very telling .
This site shares some very important insights into his supposed "contribution" and "teaching" of a pre-mil rapture . . .
Morgan Edwards
http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_2000/timeline/morgan.html
Peace in Him!
But what they leave out about Morgan Edwards and his "works" on this subject is very telling .
This site shares some very important insights into his supposed "contribution" and "teaching" of a pre-mil rapture . . .
Morgan Edwards
http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_2000/timeline/morgan.html
Peace in Him!
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You know what is hilarious? If a person whats to know what the RCC believes about a particular thing, you , Therese, would insist that they ask a Catholic. Go to an RCC site. Not a Jack Chick site, or Dave Hunt site
Now, when someone asks about what Dispensationism is - you send them to some rabid antipretrib and anti-dispensation site .
Now, when someone asks about what Dispensationism is - you send them to some rabid antipretrib and anti-dispensation site .
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Hi FICFreeinChrist said:You know what is hilarious? If a person whats to know what the RCC believes about a particular thing, you , Therese, would insist that they ask a Catholic. Go to an RCC site. Not a Jack Chick site, or Dave Hunt site
Now, when someone asks about what Dispensationism is - you send them to some rabid antipretrib and anti-dispensation site .
Having been dispensationlist in most of my 30+ years as a Protestant, I know what it teaches. . I found it to be full of error . . but I didn't realize how deep the rabbit hole went . .
For instance,. I looked at the site regarding Morgan Edwards you gave in the other thread . . it left out so much that would SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGE how people would see the claims being made there, that I found it VERY deceptive . .
The issue is not "what" dispensationalists teach . . anyone can find that out . .the issue is, where do these teachings come from? On or with what are they supported or based? Are they legitimate?
The sites you would have people go to do not tell the whole story . .
If the information in the stie I linked to above is wrong, please enlighten us - with facts!
Peace in Him!
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I am sure that is what you think, therese.....but as you buy into that junk about Margaret MacDonald, despite the plain evidence that she is not pretrib in any way, then I doubt that you understood it as you might think.thereselittleflower said:
And my comment stands. IF this were a person asking about a Catholic stance, you would insist they ask a Catholic or go to a pro-Catholic site and would be upset at any who would say otherwise. I don't see this as any different. You are not providing any objective information about dispensationism and are simply posting some extremely biased anti-dispensationist sites - similar to a Jack Chick site. Seems hypocritical to me, IMHO.
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thereselittleflower said:
God was not "taken by surprise" as you hint at. Nor was anything a failure. Dispensationalists do not teach this in anyway.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew....
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew....
God was not taken by surprise, Christ came and completed His work on the cross just as planned AND God "foreknew" Israel would reject Him, and He would be crucified. God also "foreknew" Israel would reject Him again after the cross.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Just because God knew Israel would not repent, does not make this offer any less valid! God FOREKNEW Israel would reject their King, God FOREKNEW Adam would sin AND God FOREKNEW this dispensation of Grace would end in apostasy.
God created Adam knowing he would sin, but He had a plan for Adam before He even created Adam . God did not toss Adam aside and build a new man.. God did not choose the nation of Israel and make a bunch of promises to them (most of which have been fulfilled LITERALLY) and then toss them aside for some hidden church period. Thats like saying God tossed Adam aside and created a new man in His image God has a plan for Israel AND a plan for the body of Christ,,,,, they are NOT the same plan.
Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
God entire plan consists of a family, some of that family is in heaven, some on the earth (Ep 3:15). That family could consist of thrones, dominions, principalities or powers (Col 1:16). AND through the cross were these two groups reconciled (those in heaven AND those on earth, Col 1:20).
To keep this short, Gods plan for Israel revolves around an earthly calling. It pertains to an earthly kingdom (always has) They are called to be a nation of priests. The body of Christ is called to be the head of ALL things.
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
We were blessed with ALL spiritual blessings in heavenly places. (not here on this earth, in heavenly places).
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
We are HIS Body which filleth all in all; those things in heaven AND those in the earth. ALL.
There is ONE bride ----- Israel.
There is ONE New covenant and it belongs TO Israel (we live ONLY under grace, we are not in a covenant relationship with God, if we were, we would have been punished a LONG time ago).
There is a lot of kingdoms, God, Israels promised land with Christ reigning as King, Satans and Europe, etc. etc. Which of these kingdoms encompass ALL of the above?
There are TWO Judgments (I believe) the quick and the dead
There are two resurrections. I thank my God I will not take part in the last one.
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Dispensation is a biblical term, which represents TRUTH (imho) It acknowledges that God has a plan, and in His almighty knowledge He is working that plan out (which so far has taken over 6000 years) which pertains to things in heaven AND things on this earth.... Dispensationalism simply puts those callings in the proper place.
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FreeinChrist said:
All I see are personal attacks FIC . ..
All I see are empty assertions not backed up by reliable facts . .
You misunderstand the Catholic position on this board FIC . . since so many lies are spread about the Catholic faith outside of Catholicism, we ask that people ask Catholics about what they believe . BECAUSE outside of Catholicism there is a rampant spreading of myth, lies and misunderstandings about WHAT we believe . .
You are mixing things up again . . making another strawman argument . .changing what is being discussed to something else (that was said elsewhere but not applicable to this situation) and arguing against it.
Catholics have never said that what we believe cannot be discussed as to whether it is right or wrong, or that outside evidence cannot be brought to bear . .. what we have said is know what we believe and why, that the evidence be factual . . and the vast majority of non-Catholic sites do not accurately portray what we believe or why .
I have merely presented evidence as to how Dispensationalism started, its background, etc . . it is pretty much based on facts . . facts that are glossed over or missing in the sites you have sent people to FIC . .
There is no place for you to cry foul . . .. there is nothing on which you can justly hang such an assertion. I am not trying to tell others WHAT you beleive . .but where those beliefs have their root . .the circumstances, etc . .
Dispensationalists would have people believe that this has always been a teaching of the Church (pre or post Constantine) . . but this is false. Dispenesationlists would have us believe that it began with Morgan Edwards as if he believed it himself and taught it as true . . This is also FALSE . . And I am merely bringing to light the facts . .
Would you care to address the facts I have brought to light? Or are you still not done discussing me? I notice you have a great propensity for attacking the person you are dialoguing with when it suits your purpose . ..
Again, assertions not backed up by facts . .
Are you claiming the dialogue contained in Edward's work between his professor and himself does not exist?
Are you really claiming that Edwards beleive what he wrote and taught it as true?
Please present proof and evidence that shows what is contained in that article is indeed false . . andn that Edwards believed what he wrote to be truth and taught it.
But if you continue to simply make assertions without evidence, then you only prove my point . . you don't have anything to dispute the facts I have presented . . Jack Chick lies about the Catholic Faith . . is the site I linked to above lying about Morgan Edwards?
I can prove Jack Chick lies . .can you prove the site about Morgan Edwards is lying?
Seems to me the ball is in your court now to prove it or stop making baseless accusations. If you can prove that that site is wrong, then I will admit that site is wrong . . but you have to prove it, not assert it.
According to Edwards' own words, his writing was hypothetical, an exercise his professor gave him, and not a result of serious study . .
He published it for its amusement factor many years later . . not because he thought it was truth . .
Is such a writing something one should hang one's hat on for proof of the validity of one's belief . .. ??
Peace in Him!
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