Canada/US relations going down the tube

Canadians are much more valuable in a peacekeeping role than as part of an invading force. There are already Canadian troups in Afghanistan but Canadians were never convinced that the invasion of Iraq was justified.

Canadian troups can fulfill roles that Americans can't. Just because Canadians aren't in lockstep with the Americans, doesn't mean they aren't America's best friends. Remember, Canadians understand America better than any other country in the world and are fully aware of its strengths and weaknesses.

Is it possible to mend our relationship, or are we going to be relegated to a position akin to France's?

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You should be so lucky. Vive La France.

The article seems pretty clear. Canada is deeply worried about almost every aspect of what the USA is currently about.
Surely there is a lesson that the USA can learn in this. OK dimiss the Arab perspective; because they are Arab. Dimiss the Europeans; because, well, they are Europeans, some of them almost French. Dismiss domestic concern: because, well they are liberal whiners. Dismiss assorted dissent; because, well, they are not prepared to face up to the reality of global terrorism.
But, surely, this is getting a bit close to home. The world's fixers, good guys, deal brokers: the Canadians; they think the USA has gone arrogant, and they view American patriotism with concern.
Surely, one day, someone in the White House will wake up, and realise that you can only go on stonewalling world perception and opinion, at enormous cost to reputation.

Existential1 said:

The article seems pretty clear. Canada is deeply worried about almost every aspect of what the USA is currently about.
Surely there is a lesson that the USA can learn in this. OK dimiss the Arab perspective; because they are Arab. Dimiss the Europeans; because, well, they are Europeans, some of them almost French. Dismiss domestic concern: because, well they are liberal whiners. Dismiss assorted dissent; because, well, they are not prepared to face up to the reality of global terrorism.
But, surely, this is getting a bit close to home. The world's fixers, good guys, deal brokers: the Canadians; they think the USA has gone arrogant, and they view American patriotism with concern.
Surely, one day, someone in the White House will wake up, and realise that you can only go on stonewalling world perception and opinion, at enormous cost to reputation.

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I largely agree. The current regime in power in washington is the problem but they are too arrogant and closed minded to see.

As a dual citizen of both countries, I guess I have a front row seat to this issue. I am a United States citizen who marryed a canadian and immigrated to Canada last year.

I have to admit I have been embarrassed and disappointed in my government. First of all, my wife and I discussed whether she would move to the States or whether I would move to Canada. When we went to U.S. immigrations office, there was a long line and we were treated suspiously and rudely. They flung unwarrented accusations at people for no reason it seemed other than to rattle them into admiting something. It seemed like they had watched too many Perry Mason episodes where he gets the bad guys to break down on the witness stand by badgering them. Everything from you're not really getting marryed and just pretending so she can get into the states to she is just marrying me so that she can get citizenship and then divorce me and go on welfare. It was embarassing that the people at the office were oviously not very competent or knowledgeable and matched with that was a power kick and suspicious nature that would "shoot first" and ask questions later.
And of course the rude and unprofessional behavior was excused with "you have to understand since 9-11". the customs at the border were even worse. It is the closest to being arrested a person cna get without actually being arrested.
Anyway, bottomline. I was born a U.S. citizen. served in the army and fought in two wars. Payed taxes, never in trouble with the law. etc. In other words a good citizen with no reasons to be suspicious. Same for my wife only as a Canadian citizen. yet we were both treated like criminals. The only reason, we got marryed and wanted to cross the border.

From first hand experience talking to canadians up here there are several issue which surface over and over. One major one is the border. many Canadians have family on both sides of the border or travel back and forth for business or pleasure. They all have horror stories to tell me about being treated like criminals and harrassed at the border. Of course 9-11 is cited as an excuse for this rude behavior.
One thing I have learned about Canadian culture since I have been up here is that the stereotype about Canadians and good manners is definitely true. rudeness is espeacially offensive to Canadians.
My mother-in -law was stopped at the border and questioned for an hour. She was made to fill out seven forms in order to pat 37 cents duty on a doll she bought in the U.S. at a gift shop and was bringing back for a birthday present for her granddaughter. This sweet old woman was treated as though she had been arresed for shoplifting.
Second reason I hear often is the whole mad cow situation. The U.S. has punished Canada economically by closing the borders to lumber and beef. The timing co-incides with Canada refusing to go along with Bush's bullying about the invasion. Canada didn't sign on hook line and sinker. Well Bush has a reputation for punishing those he deems unloyal.This is well known in the states and outside the States. The rumors are that vows were made that Canada would pay for the refusal to come on board with the invasion of Iraq. So many Canadians see the economic hurts and the border harrassment not just as a part of 9-11 but as payback for not being bullyed by Bush.

third issue which I have encountered is the ignorance americans have about Canada. Last night I was watching a canadian comedy. saturday night live type of deal. Anyway, they were interviewing U.S. people about Canadian things. One interview was at the Bush campaign headquaters during the last election campaign. the interviewer asked one of the Bush aids about whether Bush was knowledgeable about Canada and Canadian issues. They asked if Bush would know for example "that toronto is the capital of Canada". (Toronto is not actually the capital but that was the humorin asking that to see what they would say) The Bush aid assured the interviewer that Bush was very familiar with Canada and of course he knew that Toronto was the capital of Canada. Then the interviwer caught bush headed out and shoved a microphone in his face and said Prime minister "pouteen"(don't know the spelling) was supporting Bush's run for the white house. Pouteen is a food dish . french fries with gravy. Bush responded that he was glad for the endorsement and that he has always thought that prime minister pouteen is a great man.
Anyway it went on and on like that. the bototmline being that most Americans are ignorant of Canada and too arogant to admit that they don't know something.

Yitzchak said:

...My mother-in -law was stopped at the border and questioned for an hour. She was made to fill out seven forms in order to pat 37 cents duty on a doll she bought in the U.S. at a gift shop and was bringing back for a birthday present for her granddaughter. This sweet old woman was treated as though she had been arresed for shoplifting....

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I'm sorry Yitzchak - I love Canadians. My best friend has dual citizenship also and I visit her every summer. BUT ---- your mother-in-law's trouble was with Canadian duty and Canadian law since she was returning to Canada with a doll from the US. Not the fault of the USA! I have to admit that I purposely sin when entering Canada and they ask if I have any gifts? What, me? :o

newlamb.. next time you come back.. say you went thtough Canada to get to Cuba.. always popular

22 minutes rocks. Yitzchak, just for future reference, it is "poutine"... and darn fine stuff it is.

I still have to read the McLeans article... it's on my kitchen table... then I will respond.

We're also particularly proud of our new 24 hour clock, our 1st university and the protection of our national igloo (sorry everyone... just references to the show last night)

Peace.

JD

P.S. God help the senior citizens of Canada!

Anyway, bottomline. I was born a U.S. citizen. served in the army and fought in two wars. Payed taxes, never in trouble with the law. etc. In other words a good citizen with no reasons to be suspicious. Same for my wife only as a Canadian citizen. yet we were both treated like criminals. The only reason, we got marryed and wanted to cross the border.

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It should be better than that.

Jonathan David said:

22 minutes rocks. Yitzchak, just for future reference, it is "poutine"... and darn fine stuff it is.

I still have to read the McLeans article... it's on my kitchen table... then I will respond.

We're also particularly proud of our new 24 hour clock, our 1st university and the protection of our national igloo (sorry everyone... just references to the show last night)

Peace.

JD

P.S. God help the senior citizens of Canada!

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Hey we watched the same show. Was that funny , or what?? I was rolling on the floor laughing.

It's amazing the amount of help we gave the American's during 9/11. Bush hardly acknowledged it. Why, he was angry at the Canadian Ambassador for publically supporting Al Gore.

Hoo, I'm still laughing...

I've always thought that you could probably get some Canadians to fall for similar stuff... maybe not the part about legalizing staplers, or the Cana-dark, or the national anthem,... but most of it.

I liked the guy in Chicago who busted Mercer for the gag.... the guy who responded to the "ten months of darkness" question, "how bout calling it the Montreal Canadians? That's pretty dark". I'm a Habs fan and I thought that was funny...


Anyway... back to the topic...

I really don't like Martin very much. I don't know much about Stephen Harper and his views though, its something I want to research soon so I can pick someone to cheer for!

One thing I really do regret is not doing some form of volunteer work for the Ontario Liberals this past election (b/c of my age I'd probably be putting stamps on envelopes or something, but hey I guess someone's gotta do it..). I just love McGuinty and couldn't stand Eves (or Harris for that matter).

So, to make a long story short - I personally think that with this election coming up in Canada, we're dealing with a "Who is the lesser of two evils?" type thing (much like how I feel about Bush/Kerry but thats neither here nor there...). Like I said I'll be reading about Harper more and make a decisino from there...this time I wouldn't mind doing volunteer work for a party either, depending on what I think of Harper...

Not too sure what this has to do with the OP but i just felt like kinda venting about that

Way off topic - but isn't poutine that wonderful fries and gravy that I love sooooo much?

Well unless you support Bush you're anti-American, according to Bush of course.