Up until very recently I understood this to mean that a person was unsaved- ie destined for hell. But it has been suggested to me that not all denominations see it this way. Could you please enlighten me.
What would it mean to have one's name erased from the Lamb's book of life?
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cygnusx1
Jacob the twister.....
- Apr 12, 2004
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blotted out of the book of life ................... sure , what is often missed is that there are many books in heaven ,
"books were opened" in Rev 20:12
and the 'Lamb's book of life' is not the same as the book of life!!!
If you are granted life on this earth it is because God purposed it and wrote you in his book , He numbered all your days .....
Psalm 139:13-16 says, "For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; wonderful are Thy works, and my soul knows it very well.... Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; and in Thy book they were all written, the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them."
.... even the enemies of God are written in this book and the Lord may well decide to blott them out of the land of the living!
David prayed that the names of his enemies would be blotted out of the book of life (see Psalm 69:28).
Contrariwise , there is The Lamb's book of Life , this is not for those who are merely living , but for those and those only who have been granted ETERNAL LIFE ........ upon such there is no "blotting out" .... Eternal life means just that!
Those who confuse these distinct truths (and there are many who do) place the enemies of God , the wicked and unrighteous in the WRONG BOOK !!
They place wicked men in the Lamb's book of life , where they do not and never will belong!
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There are several books that God keeps. Rev 20:12
One set of books is called "the book of life".
In part one of that book all living (including the unbelievers) are registered. See Ex 32:32; Ps 69:29; Ps 139:16;
Out of that part names can be deleted. Those that perish are scratched out of that book.
Part two of the book has all those who have eternal life. Out of this part none will be deleted: the life is eternal.
Dan 12:1; Philip. 4:3; Rev. 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12, 15; 21:27. Compare also Luke 20:10 and Heb 12:23.
One set of books is called "the book of life".
In part one of that book all living (including the unbelievers) are registered. See Ex 32:32; Ps 69:29; Ps 139:16;
Out of that part names can be deleted. Those that perish are scratched out of that book.
Part two of the book has all those who have eternal life. Out of this part none will be deleted: the life is eternal.
Dan 12:1; Philip. 4:3; Rev. 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12, 15; 21:27. Compare also Luke 20:10 and Heb 12:23.
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Do not get confused, scripture teaches that no ones name is ever blotted out of the lamb's book of life, the verses say the opposite, Christ promises to not blot names out. Under the new covenant, our names are entered in the Lamb's book of life when we are enrolled in the body of Christ, when we are placed in Christ during our lifetime. Once in Christ, nothing can snatch us out of His hand. Under the Old Covenant, a person could lose his or her relationship God. So the blotting out passages are all Old Testament passages refering to the Old Covenant, not the Lamb's book of Life.
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Wizzer
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The 'once saved always saved' people have their way of dealing with this question. So they 'invent' a book from which they claim no name can be blotted from. I would be careful not to accept what they say without a more thorough examination of scripture - your life my depend upon it!
Wizzer
Wizzer
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Wizzer, read Revelation 13:8 in the NASB version: "All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose name has NOT been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain." This refers to the Lamb's book of life.
Revelation 20:12 describes the existence of books, plural in addition to another book, of life, so we have three books at a minumum.
So rather than inventing the Lamb's book of life, we find it identified in Revelations 13:8, and referred to as the book of life in Revelations 17:8, and Revelation 20:15. Why do we say it is the same book, because the result is the same, those whose name has not been written - note not written and erased but never written in - worship the beast, and wonder when the beast will appear. In 20:15, those whose name is not found written the book of life are tossed into the lake of fire, but in Revelation 21:27, those whose names are written in the LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE enter the new Jerusalem.
Christ promises to not erase the names in the book of life, and therefore we infer the verse is again referring to the Lamb's book of life in Revelation 3:5.
Revelation 20:12 describes the existence of books, plural in addition to another book, of life, so we have three books at a minumum.
So rather than inventing the Lamb's book of life, we find it identified in Revelations 13:8, and referred to as the book of life in Revelations 17:8, and Revelation 20:15. Why do we say it is the same book, because the result is the same, those whose name has not been written - note not written and erased but never written in - worship the beast, and wonder when the beast will appear. In 20:15, those whose name is not found written the book of life are tossed into the lake of fire, but in Revelation 21:27, those whose names are written in the LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE enter the new Jerusalem.
Christ promises to not erase the names in the book of life, and therefore we infer the verse is again referring to the Lamb's book of life in Revelation 3:5.
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Wizzer
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Van,
I believe you have assumed something concerning Rev. 13:8. As I see it, your assumption is that you believe this verse teaches that names were never removed. I dont see that this verse says that names cant be (or werent) removed. Please clarify and be explicit. Also, your reference to Rev. 3:5 actually hurts your position significantly. In that verse Jesus promises not to erase the names of those who persevere. This leaves a rather clear impression concerning those who do not persevere. (I believe your position is thereby significantly weakened.) And concerning names being removed, also please consider Ex. 32:33.
Sincerely,
Wizzer
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Hi Wizzer, I think scripture is clear, no one's name is ever erased from the lamb's book of like. When scripture says the names were not written in the book, it does not suggest in the slightest they were written and erased.
Revelation 3:5 does not say we need to hang in there to the end of our lives, and thus avoid having our name erased. That view is poured in by the "loss of salvation/never really saved until death" camp. Overcome simply means victory. When we are spiritually baptized into Christ and indwelt with the Holy Spirit, when we are born again by the will of God, we have overcome the world, 1 John 5:4-5.
So lets look at Revelation 3:5 again, He who overcomes, refers to whoever is actually born again, made alive together with Christ, and not dead (verse 2). So whoever is born again will not have his name erased. So the verse does not weaken my position, it fully supports it.
Now with this understanding of the meaning of "overcome" look carefully at Revelation 2 and 3. In 2:7 it says we will enter Paradise and eat of the tree of life. So again supporting OSAS. In verse 11, we can look forward to the second coming and not fear judgment and wrath. In 2:17, we get some reward and a special name. And now we come to a very important verse, Revelation 2:26. It says he who overcomes, refering to being born again during our lifetime, AND he who keeps my deeds until the end, will reign with Christ and have authority in the kingdom. So if we do not "keep His deeds" we will lose not our salvation, but our reward for being a trustworthy and diligent servant. Rev 3:5 is our view which says once our name is entered, it will not be erased because nothing can snatch us out of His hand.
In 3:12 says those born again will enter the New Jerusalem. In verse 3:2 we see that spiritually we are seated on the throne, just as Christ is seated on the throne of God.
In sum, every use of overcome is consistent with being born again.
Revelation 3:5 does not say we need to hang in there to the end of our lives, and thus avoid having our name erased. That view is poured in by the "loss of salvation/never really saved until death" camp. Overcome simply means victory. When we are spiritually baptized into Christ and indwelt with the Holy Spirit, when we are born again by the will of God, we have overcome the world, 1 John 5:4-5.
So lets look at Revelation 3:5 again, He who overcomes, refers to whoever is actually born again, made alive together with Christ, and not dead (verse 2). So whoever is born again will not have his name erased. So the verse does not weaken my position, it fully supports it.
Now with this understanding of the meaning of "overcome" look carefully at Revelation 2 and 3. In 2:7 it says we will enter Paradise and eat of the tree of life. So again supporting OSAS. In verse 11, we can look forward to the second coming and not fear judgment and wrath. In 2:17, we get some reward and a special name. And now we come to a very important verse, Revelation 2:26. It says he who overcomes, refering to being born again during our lifetime, AND he who keeps my deeds until the end, will reign with Christ and have authority in the kingdom. So if we do not "keep His deeds" we will lose not our salvation, but our reward for being a trustworthy and diligent servant. Rev 3:5 is our view which says once our name is entered, it will not be erased because nothing can snatch us out of His hand.
In 3:12 says those born again will enter the New Jerusalem. In verse 3:2 we see that spiritually we are seated on the throne, just as Christ is seated on the throne of God.
In sum, every use of overcome is consistent with being born again.
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Thanks Holdon, I appreciate your kindness and candor, even though we do not always agree. The quote in post #11 is not mine, but Wizzer, BIC may have been attributing Wizzer's words to me. And I agree, putting our faith in Christ can be termed a work, but it is not works, like a wage where we earn our salvation, as some seem to say.
Van
Van
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I don't see "two books of life".
Do infants who die, go to Heaven? Jesus said they do. Matt19:14
Therefore do infants have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life? Apparently they do.
So "blotting", is a common occurrance...
Do infants who die, go to Heaven? Jesus said they do. Matt19:14
Therefore do infants have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life? Apparently they do.
So "blotting", is a common occurrance...
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First, Matthew 19:14 does not say infants go to heaven, just as the verse that says God desires all men to be saved does not say all men go to heaven. God wants them to come to the knowledge of the truth, for whoever believes in Him shall not perish.
The Lamb's book of life is a New Covenant book, the Book of life where names are blotted out is the Old Covenant Book. Pouring new wine in old wineskins is not recommended. Therefore, I believe the Lamb's book is a different book.
The Lamb's book of life is a New Covenant book, the Book of life where names are blotted out is the Old Covenant Book. Pouring new wine in old wineskins is not recommended. Therefore, I believe the Lamb's book is a different book.
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Wizzer
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I have enjoyed Van getting the blame for my post. I was even hoping he would try to defend it! I guess he just couldn't bring himself to do it. Poor Van, no one gives you the credit you deserve. (So please take mine!) I will be back later to defend my post (which is actually Van's post
). Wizzer
Bad Wizzer; always preaching salvation by works
. Wizzer should repent 
.
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Wizzer
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Hello Van,
The use of Greek participles throughout Revelation 2 and 3 (and also in 1 John 5:4-5) tend to indicate otherwise. (Though Im not sure if you would understand this argument.) And what you are really doing is nothing more than circular reasoning. You seem to assume one who was "born again" must persevere because he was "born again" - and this is the whole thrust of your argument. So you seem to have already assumed that "born again" is identical with irrevokable salvation. If I were to take a guess, I would bet that you believe the new birth is a work of God which proceeds the salvation of the individual and which cant be undone by anything the individual does. (This is the common calvinist position.) I believe that the more biblical understanding of the new birth is that it is a work of God which follows after faith. Even 1 John 5 tends to indicate this, because in the very first verse John says, "Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." (It is our believing which leads to our being "born of God.") And Jesus discussion with Nicodemus in John 3 points in this same direction. It is faith in Christ which is the decisive factor. God brings the one who has faith in His Son into His family. And unless that faith is maintained, the family relationship is lost. But the possibility of becoming "unborn" because of unfaithfulness (failing to persevere) is something which you probably would never consider - but this is the true warning of passages such as Rev. 3:5.
And concerning the possibility of names being blotted out, you havent addressed (at least not to me) the following two verses. In a psalm heavy with Messianic overtones, Psalm 69 says of the enemies of Gods anointed,
"May they be blotted out of the book of life, and may they not be recorded with the righteous." [Ps. 69:28]
And as I mentioned last time, God says in Ex.32:33,
"Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book."
So what have you to say concerning these?
Sincerely,
Wizzer
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