Any Hank Hannegraff fans?

I'm not a big fan of Hank's. I did enjoy the little book "The Prayer of Jesus" though. I read a portion of one of those other books. . .don't remember the title. . .but I read the portion that was "exposing" one man in particular that I personally knew. I had Hanks book in my hand alongside the book by the man that Hank kept saying he was quoting from and found out quickly that Hank does not seem to know how to quote people in full context. In fact so much was being left out of the quotes that it gave intirely different meanings to what had actually been said. I have listened to very little that Hank say's since that.

Hey everybody, long time no hear...I hope all is ok with everyone!!!

It seems that ole' Hank has a problem, one that only Jesus can deal with. I have the feeling that HH was offended in some way while he was growing up and as a result of that (whatever it was), HH seems to harbor a "deceptive" spirit, along with a rather unloving fellowship (fellowship???) displayed to other parts of the body of Christ.

It seems to me, from mere observation of his behavior, that HH walks in unforgivingness and that would severely restrict Jesus' ablity to use HH as a vessel of love, not to mention choking God's plan for HH's life and ministry.

That's just my 2 cents worth...

Hank has some good points, granted. I myself am a Pente but I agree with a few of his objections. That said, I have now seen that this kind of thing is very easy to steer out of control, and it begins to tear down more than build up, that's a scary thought.

Whether Hank's original intention I won't go so far to say, but I know that several people with the wrong intentions hammer this stuff till they are blue in the face. I think it's good and reasonable to debate doctrine and try and help one another along but it is becoming increasingly apparent to me that some of the God-fearing apologetics people overstep the mark. Often well-intentioned I can see how they may go too far... the bottom line is are we trying to love our bretheren?

I also wonder about Hank's Catholic connection... and Theo... you took the words right out of my mouth... what's a HH book doing at ORU???

Quaffer said:

I'm not a big fan of Hank's. I did enjoy the little book "The Prayer of Jesus" though. I read a portion of one of those other books. . .don't remember the title. . .but I read the portion that was "exposing" one man in particular that I personally knew. I had Hanks book in my hand alongside the book by the man that Hank kept saying he was quoting from and found out quickly that Hank does not seem to know how to quote people in full context. In fact so much was being left out of the quotes that it gave intirely different meanings to what had actually been said. I have listened to very little that Hank say's since that.

Click to expand...

I have heard that hanagraffs organization is coming under financial problems which is quite hyprocritical. He had a fancy sports car etc.. bad stuff.

LynneClomina said:

he's a cessationist, and basically, we're flakes or occultists.

Click to expand...

I've never heard Hank say that about himself nor pentacostals either. In fact he has defended the gifts of the spirit (tongues, prophecy etc,). He has said numerous times that the Bible does not support cessationalism. He also has stated that he has friends that are charismatic and esteems them as men of God.

Here is a brief excerpt of his opinon.
http://www.equip.org/free/CP0705.pdf

Hank's concerns are mainly with the WOF teachers, not Charismatics or Pentacostalism as a whole. He feels many of the gifts, especially that of tongues is greatly prostitued and is so wrongly used that it is man and no longer the spirit. I would agree with him.

He has a problem with the "Prosperity Message" as the WOF presents it. So do many other people besides HH.

He calls people on the carpet for stating "God told me this" and "God told me that" and nothing ever happens.

He answers questions concerning cults and other false religions.

He has great knowledge and understanding of the word.

Well then, I'm not a Christian.

And calling people on the carpet for stating "God said this" is different than playing an apology from someone who said that it wasn't God who said that, over and over again...for about three weeks.

And, thanks to HH, my father never supported me for about six years as I wasn't a Christian because of HH.

That said, I saw some great miracles from God because of a lack of support, and I really have nothing against my father, he was just misinformed.

This is vanshan, but I'm under my own log in name instead of my wife's.

You can bet I didn't find the HH book in the ORU library!

I was a Theological Historical Studies major at ORU, although I transferred to a different college after 2 1/2 years there. I lived on campus and after attending the twice weekly chapel service there are a fair number of students who start to question the sensationalism of the charismatic movement.

I am definitely not a cessationist. I do believe in God's miraculous power and gifts still being used today, but I think they are used a little less and a little more discriminitly by God than most on this forum, I'm sure.

I personally think I have found the perfect balance in the Eastern Orthodox Church. I converted to Orthodoxy after studying early church history and seeing how far away we charismatics are from the church Christ left. The Bible is our first source for understanding Christ and His ministry, but to really read how early Christians were taught to worship by Christ you do have to consider the early writings of Christians (not on the same level as scripture, but just filling in the gaps in what was recorded in the New Testament).

I made the decision that if someone was wrong about our faith it would be the contemporary charismatic teachers not those who were discipled by Christ and His Apostles. Those Christians, many who were martyred because they would not deny Christ or the faith they inherited, are more impressive and on fire than anyone I have met in our day and age. You should read about Ignatius of Antioch who was killed by wild beasts in a Roman colloseum, for one.

There have been many students who converted to Orthodoxy from ORU, including many who are now priests. It seems like a large jump, but actually the Orthodox Church shares many of the same beliefs as charismatics, its just much more structured.

Basil

studying early church history and seeing how far away we charismatics are from the church Christ left.

Click to expand...

Oh man, here we go again. Are you talking about the church that was getting drunk at communion? The same church that was having incest? Or the churches that tolerate the spirit of Jezebel? What was the perfect church? The one that Peter was pope of? Or the church that people were getting healed at? The church that people were selling all and giving to the poor? Sorry, I don't see the orthodox church fits that 'traditional church' any way better than any church here.

From every historical document we have we see that the worship of the early Christians was dynamic and stuctured in the same liturgical way as the Jewish temple services. There are many similarities which you could still see today if you were to visit an Orthodox church. There is a direct and unending continuity there.

There were people who went astray and were cut off from the Body of Christ very early, but there also was always a steadfast unified body of believers that kept the faith of Christ, preserving it and defending it from any attempts to corrupt it. Christ said the gates of hell would not prevail over the Church, do you really believe the moment after His ascention they fell astray? No, and we have record to prove it. They even held seven churchwide councils primarily to clarify the teaching of Christ and renounce false-teachings that were trying to creep in. These were the real prayer partners! The gospel spread like wildfire not in some unhealthy sickly church, but in a dynamic miraculous church full of the Spirit of God.

It is deceptive Satan who has introduced the lie that the early church was corrupted by man-made doctrines. If we swallow this lie then we are free to depart from everything Christ really established on earth and reinterpret everything now outside of the historical context and holy traditions of Christ. We can collect for ourselves teachers who teach doctrines that we enjoy hearing, but if you want to draw near Christ look at the Church he left -- it reflects His true nature.

Basil

There was always a steadfast unified body of believers, and of course that is the one that you belong to. But that of course would mean that all others...do you see where I'm going with this?

At no time did Paul say any of the churches in error weren't still God's churches. In Revelation, all churches were warned that they needed to correct some error, but at no time was it said the gates of hell prevailed against them.

RevKidd said:

I've never heard Hank say that about himself nor pentacostals either. In fact he has defended the gifts of the spirit (tongues, prophecy etc,). He has said numerous times that the Bible does not support cessationalism. He also has stated that he has friends that are charismatic and esteems them as men of God.

Here is a brief excerpt of his opinon.
http://www.equip.org/free/CP0705.pdf

Hank's concerns are mainly with the WOF teachers, not Charismatics or Pentacostalism as a whole. He feels many of the gifts, especially that of tongues is greatly prostitued and is so wrongly used that it is man and no longer the spirit. I would agree with him.

He has a problem with the "Prosperity Message" as the WOF presents it. So do many other people besides HH.

He calls people on the carpet for stating "God told me this" and "God told me that" and nothing ever happens.

He answers questions concerning cults and other false religions.

He has great knowledge and understanding of the word.

Click to expand...

hmmm, you are correct. evidently he does believe in the gifts. i definately didnt get that impression from his book "the covering". and he sure hates brownsville and toronto. he is very close minded.

if you are "discerning" about someone, and you wouldnt give your life for them, you're not discerning, you're just being critical. - John Bevere said something like that. and it's true. HH "murmers", which i believe is apalling to God. but who am i to speak for God?

Basil said:

You can bet I didn't find the HH book in the ORU library!

I was a Theological Historical Studies major at ORU, although I transferred to a different college after 2 1/2 years there. I lived on campus and after attending the twice weekly chapel service there are a fair number of students who start to question the sensationalism of the charismatic movement.

Click to expand...

What was your experience of ORU like, Basil? Did you find the theological students tended to feel isolated from the crowd...? I am guessing that a fairly large proportion of students at ORU are very Charismatic (and I believe a fair number of WoF believers go there). I can't help wondering if there is a tension between the theologians (who are naturally cautious, thoughtful and worried about their intellectual status) and the non-theologians...

Incidentally, have you read "55 flaws of Christianity in Crisis"?

I have listened to Hank Hannegraf many many times, and I have never heard him call anyone not a christian, unless you were JW or Mormon. I have heard him speak very harshly to people calling in and defending the WOF movement, but not once has he not called them a Christian, from what I have heard.

That is probably my biggest problem with Hank is that he can be very stearn and harsh. But then you also have to admire him for his unwaivering beliefs as well. The Christian community IMO needs people like HH. When someone says something that needs to be questioned Hank will ask the question. He searches the word. There is nothing wrong with that.

I do feel that he needs to be more open within himself concerning the Holy Spirit. However, I do agree with him that there are more people who act out of flesh than in the spirit, because it's the ol' monkey see monkey do. And that's where HH sees the problem as do I. I have felt that way long before I ever heard of HH. I appreciate his knowledge of the word and admire his steadfastness for it.

I have listened to Hank Hannegraf many many times, and I have never heard him call anyone not a christian, unless you were JW or Mormon

Click to expand...

Ok, again, I was born again at a service where the preacher was not from God. If he's not from God, who's he from? And if he's not from God, and none of the people who listen receive the true gospel, what do they receive? And if some exchange the truth of God for a lie, what is their punishment?

And the name of the preacher was Elias Antonas.