Lucy: More Fraud

JohnR7

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John, why don't you tell it to the people who have used evolution in fields like Disease-research etc, to name a few that what they are doing is "fradulous and wrong"?


Evolution has nothing to do with "disease-research". I t would be unsubstaniated to make a claim like that.

Why haven't you ever posted your findings to a scientist so it can be reviewed on it's merrits?

That is exactly what I am doing here. I am not preaching to the choir. There are very few "friendly" people here on this forum. Of course for me the question is what are they actually able to falsify.

And of course, Gap-theory has contributed a lot of practical applications, like for instance... uh... Could you name a few?

The gap theory mostly has to do with the study of the neolithic period and also the study of genealogy. At least that is my area of interest.
 
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Mistermystery

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Evolution has nothing to do with "disease-research". I t would be unsubstaniated to make a claim like that.

Actually it isn't. For instance there is this study about Pharmacophylogenomics, Phages and phage related research or for instance this link that deals with applied uses of evolution. To quote:

...evolution is now the foundation of disease tracking and of the identification of species in medical, pharmacological, or conservation settings. It further underlies bioinformatics approaches to the analysis of genomes....

Read more about it here.

To say that evolution and disease-research are unrelated is laughable at best, ignorant at worst. Next time you're getting a flu-shot you better remmember that it's due to evolution you can have it. Or many other medicines for that matter.

I also gave you various other fields in my first post, want to wrestle those out too?

That is exactly what I am doing here.
Well apperently you've grown beyond the fundaments of just us simpletons. No really, you are saying that you can uproot the whole foundations of biology and zillions of other fields. By now if you actually could do it, why not bring it up to for instance, Nature? National geographic? Berkley? any other scientific institute?

You're eager to make the claim, but can't put your monney where your mouth is.

There are very few "friendly" people here on this forum.
What has this line got to do with anything?

Of course for me the question is what are they actually able to falsify.

If your theory is so rigerous, then surely an outside look by some scientists is no biggie, right?

The gap theory mostly has to do with the study of the neolithic period and also the study of genealogy. At least that is my area of interest.
That's nice. But you didn't anwser the question. Let me ask it again:

" Could you name a few practical application the Gap-theory has contributed? "
 
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dawiyd

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Evolution has nothing to do with "disease-research". I t would be unsubstaniated to make a claim like that.

John obviously you pay little attention to the links I provide, would you like to review the work my University is doing, and then say such a statement again.

http://evolve.zoo.ox.ac.uk/publications.html

Virus and Pathogen Evolution

A Bayesian statistical analysis of human T cell lymphotropic virus evolutionary rates
Lemey P, Pybus OG, Van Dooren S & Vandamme AM (2005) Infect Genet Evol 5, 291-298.

The evolution of large DNA viruses: Combining genomic information of viruses and their hosts
Shackelton LA & Holmes EC (2004) Trends Microbiol 12, 458-465.

Viral evolution and the emergence of SARS coronavirus
Holmes EC & Rambaut A (2004) Phil. Trans. R. Soc. Lond. B 359, 1059-1065.
 
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JohnR7

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John obviously you pay little attention to the links I provide, would you like to review the work my University is doing, and then say such a statement again.
That is all genetics. It has nothing to do with evolution. It is the usual bait and switch shell game that evos love to play.

Calling genetics: evolution does not make the theory of evolution true.
 
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dawiyd

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Evolution has nothing to do with "disease-research". I t would be unsubstaniated to make a claim like that.



That is exactly what I am doing here. I am not preaching to the choir. There are very few "friendly" people here on this forum. Of course for me the question is what are they actually able to falsify.



The gap theory mostly has to do with the study of the neolithic period and also the study of genealogy. At least that is my area of interest.

That is all genetics. It has nothing to do with evolution. It is the usual bait and switch shell game that evos love to play.

Calling genetics: evolution does not make the theory of evolution true.

So do you want to write a formal letter to Oxford university and tell them to stop using "bait and switch tactics"?
 
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Abongil

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That is all genetics. It has nothing to do with evolution. It is the usual bait and switch shell game that evos love to play.

Calling genetics: evolution does not make the theory of evolution true.
Genetics is a part of biology. Evolution also has genetics as a part of it. Therefore, your post is invalid.
 
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Mistermystery

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That is all genetics. It has nothing to do with evolution. It is the usual bait and switch shell game that evos love to play.

So instead of adressing the issue you dismiss it by saying it has nothing to do with evolution. Tell me Johnny, How do you explain genetics without the theory of evolution?

Also, if evolution and genetics have got nothing in common, please be so friendly to inform Edward B. Lewis, Christiane Nüsslein-Volhard, Eric F. Wieschaus that they had it all wrong, and they should give back their nobel prize. Or is investegation on the genetics in fruitfly development not "geneticy" or "evilutionary" enough for you?

Calling genetics: evolution does not make the theory of evolution true.
No, you're right there. The evidence in favour of evolution makes it true, and the funny thing is that so far you can't seem to bring yourself to even awnser my post. I also welcome the offer that you write a big letter to various genetic-scientists and say they should stop their research, because they're wrong.

---

I'm sorry, but it's pretty ignorant to say that disease-research nowadays isn't evolutionary related, but it's even more laughable to say that genetics and evolution are unrelated. Offer your proof that they are unrelated, and please be so kind why you still can't name one practical application the Gap-theory has contributed.
 
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JohnR7

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Tell me Johnny, How do you explain genetics without the theory of evolution?
.
The question is what do you mean by evolution. The only way to be able to seperate truth from error is if you have the Holy Spirit of God.

A teaspoon of poison will kill you just as fast even if you did mix it in with a bowl of stew.

You can mix poison in with all the good stuff you want, but that will not make the poison any less harmful.

Eccles. 10:1
As dead flies give perfume a bad smell,
so a little folly outweighs wisdom and honor.

Matthew 16:6
Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
 
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dawiyd

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The question is what do you mean by evolution. The only way to be able to seperate truth from error is if you have the Holy Spirit of God.

As I said before. If a teaspoon of poison will kill you and you mix that poison in with a bowl of stew, it will still kill you just as fast, even though you mix it in with a lot of good stuff.

WOW, you utterly avoided the question that was asked.
 
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JohnR7

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WOW, you utterly avoided the question that was asked.
My question is, can a very small amount of poison kill people? Evolution may have lots of "good" stuff, but it only takes a tiny bit of poison to kill people, no matter how much "good" stuff they mix that poison in with.

The same with yeast. A loaf of bread only requires a little bit of yeast.
 
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dawiyd

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My question is, can a very small amount of poison kill people? Evolution may have lots of "good" stuff, but it only takes a tiny bit of poison to kill people, no matter how much "good" stuff they mix that poison in with.

The same with yeast. A loaf of bread only requires a little bit of yeast.

Ok, good. Now can you actually want to answer Mistermystery's question; "Tell me Johnny, How do you explain genetics without the theory of evolution?"
 
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JohnR7

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How do you explain genetics without the theory of evolution?"
You can use various theorys like the founder effect, migration theory, genetic drift, bottleneck and so on.
There are lots of theories that do not conflict with creation science, or can even be a part of it.
 
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Chalnoth

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You can use various theorys like the founder effect, migration theory, genetic drift, bottleneck and so on.
There are lots of theories that do not conflict with creation science, or can even be a part of it.
Nope, those are pretty much all founded on a basis of evolutionary theory too. Try again.
 
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JohnR7

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So instead of adressing the issue you dismiss it by saying it has nothing to do with evolution.
You know what evolution is and what it is not. Giving me a dump truck full of evidence that has nothing to do with evolution is not going to help your case.

This is why evolution theory is bait and switch. They give evidence for something that has nothing to do with evolution, yet they try to call it evolution.

Evolution is like the old statues they use to call idols. They expect people to bow down and "worship" them. But their idols are deaf, dumb, blind and lame.

People give lip service to the theory of evolution. I can see where it would have some value in teaching becasue it is a way to organize. Otherwise it has no practical application in the real world and it fails miserably in that it's perdictions are not accurate and they do not come true.

The main reason the theory has survive is because they blur the line between what is real and what is not real. They blur the line between what is evolution and what is not evolution.

There is no evidence for evolution: zero, zip, zilch, none. Becasue the theory is not true, never has been and it never will be. So calling something evolution that is not evolution is not going to make evolution true.

Evolution is the theory of common descent, everything else is fluff and puff. Perhaps I should just call it common descent, then we would all be on the same page and we would all know what we were talking about. But you know as well as I do that the theory of evolution is the theory of common descent. If you have not shown common descent to be true then you have not proven the theory of evolution. Any evidence that is not direct evidence for common descent, is not evidence for evolution.
 
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Chalnoth

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There is no evidence for evolution: zero, zip, zilch, none. Becasue the theory is not true, never has been and it never will be. So calling something evolution that is not evolution is not going to make evolution true.

Evolution is the theory of common descent, everything else is fluff and puff. Perhaps I should just call it common descent, then we would all be on the same page and we would all know what we were talking about. But you know as well as I do that the theory of evolution is the theory of common descent. If you have not shown common descent to be true then you have not proven the theory of evolution. Any evidence that is not direct evidence for common descent, is not evidence for evolution.
Common descent is just one of many predictions of the theory of evolution. Evolution doesn't just say that there is common descent: it provides a mechanism by which great variety can stem from a single population being divided.

But regardless, I have no problem arguing just common descent, and have done so in the past:
http://www.christianforums.com/t3305822-conclusive-evidence-humans-descended-from-apes.html
I know you've seen ERV evidence before. How do you claim that it is wrong?

Edit:
rmwilliamsll is right a few posts down, though: evolutionary theory doesn't say that all life descended from one single ancestor. This just seems to be a measurement that has been observed.
 
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Mistermystery

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The question is what do you mean by evolution. (followed by a lot of talk about nothing really)
I think I was pretty clear, but here let me ask it again: How do you explain genetics without the theory of evolution?

Wait.. that was the exact same question I previously asked.

Oh well.
 
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