Did God Indirectly Cause Job To Suffer, Be Sick, And Be In Poverty?

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JimfromOhio

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That about sums it up.
You must have gotten that from Ecc:

Ecclesiastes 7:16
16 So don't knock yourself out being good, and don't go overboard being wise. Believe me, you won't get anything out of it.

Yep.. don't knock yourself having great knowledge without scriptural support. :wave:

Proverbs 26:12 (NIV) "Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him."

Romans 1:21-22 (NIV) "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools."

Isaiah 55:8-9 (NIV) "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."
 
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razzelflabben

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Job didn't say that until here

Job 3:25 For the thing which I fear cometh upon me, And that which I am afraid of cometh unto me.
Job 3:26 I am not at ease, neither am I quiet, neither have I rest; But trouble cometh.

Notice, it is the 3rd chapter, and I would dare say he was talking about his circumstances.
But, let's go back to the first chapter


Job 1:6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:7 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered Jehovah, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 1:8 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job? for there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and turneth away from evil.
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered Jehovah, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made a hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath, on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thy hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will renounce thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thy hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of Jehovah.

Sounds like Gods' idea to me.
A thought on fear as I read your post. Ch. 1 says that Job feared God. Ch 3 that Job's that the things he fears came upon him. Are these related somehow?
 
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razzelflabben

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So since God said that everything that Job had was in Satan's power. Is that the same today as being Christians, and being translated into the kingdom of His dear Son? Was Job by default still under the sin of Adam? Or did Jesus strip all authority and power away from him and came to destroy the works of the devil? Thats why I don't even consider the story of Job after the new covenant with us. Because Jesus brought the kingdom of God everytime he healed a leper, opened blind eyes raised someone from the dead, forgave us sinners by offering Himself for us. When Jesus came, He brought Gods glory with Him.
Interesting concept. So by God's indwelling, aren't we called to the same purpose, to destroy satan and glorify God?

Translate that into the story of Job. By Job remaining faithful in the face of satans attacks, wasn't he glorifying God and destroying satan? Wouldn't that then be consistant with God and His purpose?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Job's Great Mistake
From Dakes Annotated Reference Bible


Job's Great Mistake
Job made the big mistake, like most Christians today, in blaming God for his suffering and trouble. This is very clear from the following statements made by Job while he went through his trouble. He said:
"The Lord gave, and the Lord taketh away; blessed be the name of the Lord" (Job 1:21).
"What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil" (Job 2:10),
"Why is light given to the man whose way is hid, and in whom God hath hedged in" (Job 3:23).
"The arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me" (Job 6:4),
"I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul . . . thou [God] scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions: so that my soul chooseth strangling and death rather than life. I loathe it.... What is man, that thou shouldst magnify him . . . and try him every moment? . . . Why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself? And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity?" (Job 7:11-21),
"For he breaketh me with tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause. He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.... He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.... Yet thou shalt plunge me into the ditch" (Job 9:17, 18, 22),
"I will say unto God, do not condemn me; shew me wherefore thou contendest with me. Is it good for thee that thou shouldst oppress, that thou shouldst despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the council of the wicked . . . thou dost destroy me . . . Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese? . . . Thou huntest me as a fierce lion. . . Thou renewest thy witnesses against me, and increaseth thine indignation upon me . . . cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little" (Job 10:2, 3, 8, 10, 16, 17),
"The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly" (Job 12:6),
"Withdraw thine hand far from me: and let not thy dread make me afraid . . . wherefore hidest thou thy face, and holdest me for thine enemy" (Job 13:21-24),
"Thou destroyest the hope of man" (Job 14:19),
"God hath delivered me to the ungodly, and turned me over into the hands of the wicked. I was at ease, but he hath broken me asunder: he hath also taken me bad the neck, and shaken me to pieces, and set me up for his mark. His archers compass me round about, he cleaveth my reins asunder, and he doth not spare; he poureth out my gall upon the ground. He breaketh me with breach upon breach, he runneth upon me like a giant . . . Not for any injustice in my hands" (Job 16:11-17),
"He hath made me also a byword of the people" (Job 17:6),
"Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net. Behold, I cry out of wrong, but I am not heard: I cry aloud, but there is no judgment.... He hath set darkness in my paths. He hath stripped me of my glory, and taken the crown of my head. He hath destroyed me on every side.... He hath kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies. He hath put my brethren far from me . . . the hand of God hath touched me" (Job 19:6-13, 21),
"The Almighty troubleth me" (Job 23:16),
"As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul" (Job 27:2),
"He hath loosed my cord, and afflicted me . . . He hath cast me into the mire" (Job 30:11, 19).​

The statements above are of Job during his sufferings. They do not speak the truth any more than modern statements of men who accuse God of being the cause of their sicknesses, calamities, and failures. God did not do even one of the above-mentioned things to a child of His and He never will. It was the devil who had afflicted Job, as is plainly stated in Job 2:7.
Not one of Job's statements mentioned above should be taken as true of the dealings of God with His children. They were uttered by a man in great distress and by a man who had the wrong conception of God and His dealings with man. It is no wonder when God came to Job and rebuked him for the above accusations that Job said,

"Who is he that hideth council without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.... Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:1-6).​

To consider God as the cause of Job's miseries is to make Him the most unjust, inhuman, and unmerciful being that one could conceive of. God's main purpose in recording the experiences of Job is to show men of all ages that He is not this kind of God, as the devil and men in general constantly refer to Him as being. Unfortunately men have missed this all important truth about Job. They have used his experience to magnify sickness as the will of God, as caused by God, and as necessary for children of God to undergo in order to learn patience. They have completely missed the mark.
God did not take away Job's riches, kill his children, take away his health and position, or cause his wife and friends to become estranged from him. Job did not receive evil from God. God did not hedge him in, shoot him with His arrows, poison him, send him terrors, scare him with dreams and visions, cause him to choose death rather than life, set him up for a mark to shoot at, break him with tempest, multiply his wounds without cause, take his breath, fill him with bitterness, plunge him in the ditch, condemn him without cause, oppress him, despise him, destroy him, hunt him as a lion, witness against him, increase his wrath upon him, torment him, count him as an enemy, destroy his hope, deliver him to the ungodly, be unmerciful to him, refuse to hear him, or afflict him with suffering. God did not destroy the perfect, prosper the wicked, make the ungodly secure, and oppress the godly. These are false lies of the devil that he got Job to utter. God is not this kind of evil being. The devil is the cause of all these misfortunes and this is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Anyone who accuses God of doing these things is falsely accusing Him of wrongdoing.

These are the kinds of doctrines expressed constantly in modern churches by preachers who know infinitely less about God after studying the sixty-six books of the Bible than Job knew without the Bible. These false doctrines are the ones taught by most of the modern religious teachers; that is, about God and His dealings with men. Therefore when men come along contradicting such teachings they are classed as fanatical and heretical in the extreme. The truth is they are the heretics.
 
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JimfromOhio

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Job's Great Mistake
From Dakes Annotated Reference Bible


Job's Great Mistake
Job made the big mistake, like most Christians today, in blaming God for his suffering and trouble. This is very clear from the following statements made by Job while he went through his trouble. He said:
"The Lord gave, and the Lord taketh away; blessed be the name of the Lord" (Job 1:21).
"What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil" (Job 2:10),
"Why is light given to the man whose way is hid, and in whom God hath hedged in" (Job 3:23).
"The arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me" (Job 6:4),
"I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul . . . thou [God] scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions: so that my soul chooseth strangling and death rather than life. I loathe it.... What is man, that thou shouldst magnify him . . . and try him every moment? . . . Why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself? And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity?" (Job 7:11-21),
"For he breaketh me with tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause. He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.... He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.... Yet thou shalt plunge me into the ditch" (Job 9:17, 18, 22),
"I will say unto God, do not condemn me; shew me wherefore thou contendest with me. Is it good for thee that thou shouldst oppress, that thou shouldst despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the council of the wicked . . . thou dost destroy me . . . Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese? . . . Thou huntest me as a fierce lion. . . Thou renewest thy witnesses against me, and increaseth thine indignation upon me . . . cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little" (Job 10:2, 3, 8, 10, 16, 17),
"The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly" (Job 12:6),
"Withdraw thine hand far from me: and let not thy dread make me afraid . . . wherefore hidest thou thy face, and holdest me for thine enemy" (Job 13:21-24),
"Thou destroyest the hope of man" (Job 14:19),
"God hath delivered me to the ungodly, and turned me over into the hands of the wicked. I was at ease, but he hath broken me asunder: he hath also taken me bad the neck, and shaken me to pieces, and set me up for his mark. His archers compass me round about, he cleaveth my reins asunder, and he doth not spare; he poureth out my gall upon the ground. He breaketh me with breach upon breach, he runneth upon me like a giant . . . Not for any injustice in my hands" (Job 16:11-17),
"He hath made me also a byword of the people" (Job 17:6),
"Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net. Behold, I cry out of wrong, but I am not heard: I cry aloud, but there is no judgment.... He hath set darkness in my paths. He hath stripped me of my glory, and taken the crown of my head. He hath destroyed me on every side.... He hath kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies. He hath put my brethren far from me . . . the hand of God hath touched me" (Job 19:6-13, 21),
"The Almighty troubleth me" (Job 23:16),
"As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul" (Job 27:2),
"He hath loosed my cord, and afflicted me . . . He hath cast me into the mire" (Job 30:11, 19).​

The statements above are of Job during his sufferings. They do not speak the truth any more than modern statements of men who accuse God of being the cause of their sicknesses, calamities, and failures. God did not do even one of the above-mentioned things to a child of His and He never will. It was the devil who had afflicted Job, as is plainly stated in Job 2:7.
Not one of Job's statements mentioned above should be taken as true of the dealings of God with His children. They were uttered by a man in great distress and by a man who had the wrong conception of God and His dealings with man. It is no wonder when God came to Job and rebuked him for the above accusations that Job said,

"Who is he that hideth council without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.... Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:1-6).​

To consider God as the cause of Job's miseries is to make Him the most unjust, inhuman, and unmerciful being that one could conceive of. God's main purpose in recording the experiences of Job is to show men of all ages that He is not this kind of God, as the devil and men in general constantly refer to Him as being. Unfortunately men have missed this all important truth about Job. They have used his experience to magnify sickness as the will of God, as caused by God, and as necessary for children of God to undergo in order to learn patience. They have completely missed the mark.
God did not take away Job's riches, kill his children, take away his health and position, or cause his wife and friends to become estranged from him. Job did not receive evil from God. God did not hedge him in, shoot him with His arrows, poison him, send him terrors, scare him with dreams and visions, cause him to choose death rather than life, set him up for a mark to shoot at, break him with tempest, multiply his wounds without cause, take his breath, fill him with bitterness, plunge him in the ditch, condemn him without cause, oppress him, despise him, destroy him, hunt him as a lion, witness against him, increase his wrath upon him, torment him, count him as an enemy, destroy his hope, deliver him to the ungodly, be unmerciful to him, refuse to hear him, or afflict him with suffering. God did not destroy the perfect, prosper the wicked, make the ungodly secure, and oppress the godly. These are false lies of the devil that he got Job to utter. God is not this kind of evil being. The devil is the cause of all these misfortunes and this is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Anyone who accuses God of doing these things is falsely accusing Him of wrongdoing.

These are the kinds of doctrines expressed constantly in modern churches by preachers who know infinitely less about God after studying the sixty-six books of the Bible than Job knew without the Bible. These false doctrines are the ones taught by most of the modern religious teachers; that is, about God and His dealings with men. Therefore when men come along contradicting such teachings they are classed as fanatical and heretical in the extreme. The truth is they are the heretics.

Yep.. from listening to his friends. If he didn't listen to his friends, he would not have spoken such words. People keep forgetting why God got mad at Job's friends and why God got mad at Job for listening to his friends.

Dids, are you always looking for a blame to put a person "outside" of God's protection when it did not happen?
 
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franky67

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Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason." Job 2:3

Dids, this is the one that I have the most trouble with, it seems to say that in verse 1:12 God gave satan the authority to to do to Job all that chapter one describes.

Yes Satan did it, but it says "all he has in in your power" as if before that, Satan could not touch Job, because God had a hedge around him.

The verse above (2:3) says God told satan that he, satan, incited Him, God, to move against Job without a reason.

It's God saying satan tempted Him, now that can't happen.

Wonder how the actual Hebrew reads.
 
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Tamara224

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IMO Job has led many astray, and as such, has no place in a book that is given by God to tell His people who He is. Because MOST Christians take it to be truth.

I can't believe people are actually willing to go this far to justify their own doctrines. Throwing out books of the Bible because they don't line up with a person's human understanding? What's next? Oh, gee, I don't really like the part in the Bible about hell, cuz I don't think God would be mean enough to make anyone suffer forever... I think I'll redact the Bible to reflect my beliefs.

2 Timothy 3:14-17
14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

I guess we'll have to throw this passage out as well... because, apparently, not ALL scripture is inspried and profitable for teaching, training, etc.

Wow, what else do we need to throw out to justify our own doctrines?
 
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Tamara224

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basically if God can do whatever the flame he feels like, then all the promises that are yes and amen in Christ are worthless.

Except... God WANTS to keep His promises. So, He can do whatever the flame He feels like and still keep His promises, can't He?
 
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probinson

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Personally, I don't find any need to throw Job out of the Bible to "justify my doctrine". In fact, there's an awful lot of lessons to learn from Job that actually do "justify my doctrine", not the least of which is that Job desired a daysman, but did not have one.

We do. Jesus. :thumbsup:

Job 9:33
Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
 
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Tamara224

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Personally, I don't find any need to throw Job out of the Bible to "justify my doctrine". In fact, there's an awful lot of lessons to learn from Job that actually do "justify my doctrine", not the least of which is that Job desired a daysman, but did not have one.

We do. Jesus. :thumbsup:


Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.


:thumbsup: Although we may disagree on overall interpretation of the book... throwing the book out entirely is not an option, imo.
 
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franky67

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Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason." Job 2:3

Dids, this is the one that I have the most trouble with, it seems to say that in verse 1:12 God gave satan the authority to to do to Job all that chapter one describes.

Yes Satan did it, but it says "all he has in in your power" as if before that, Satan could not touch Job, because God had a hedge around him.

The verse above (2:3) says God told satan that he, satan, incited Him, God, to move against Job without a reason.

It's God saying satan tempted Him, now that can't happen.

Wonder how the actual Hebrew reads.

I said in a previous post that I didn't think a book in the bible which described a different God than the rest of the bible describes should be included in the canon.

But nobody has commented on the verses I mentioned above, I want to support the book of Job, but not blindly.

To me, bottom line of Job is not about Job's character, but about the character of the God of Job.

Satan came to God, and said Job is not righteous, God says he is.
And to prove a point to satan, God lets Job suffer at satan's hand. That's the problem I have with this book.

This God in Job is NOT the same God that is described in Psalm 91, and many, many other places in the rest of the bible.
 
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Trish1947

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After the fall, all mankind was under the curse. They sold their birthright to the devil, giving him certain rights over the human race. Why would God say, "behold, all that he has is in your hand?" This wasn't God giving permission..this was a statement of what was.
God didn't suddenly, on the spot, decide that Satan could rob him. Remember, Jesus during the temptation when Satan told Jesus to fall down and worship him, and he would give him all the kingdoms of this world. Satan couldn't promise him this , if it wasn't his ability to do so. Neither would it be a temptation to Jesus if it wasn't so. Not until Jesus death buriel and resurrection was the kingdoms of this world, have become the kingdom of Gods dear Son. Only then, was the keys of the kingdom of God taken from Satan, and Jesus bought our birthright back for us. It wasn't a decision God made suddenly,concerning Job.. It was a decision that Adam and Eve made suddenly. Righteous man or not.
 
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razzelflabben

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Seems to me we are still refusing to look at the result of the whole incident, Satan was destroyed, at least in part and God was glorified. Isn't this consistant with God's character and purpose? If so, why all the dispute about including it, or it not being consistant, or who caused it. The bottom line according to the story is that God allowed Satan to hurt Job and Job remained faithful which brought destruction upon satan and glory to God. Isn't that the whole point?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Seems to me we are still refusing to look at the result of the whole incident, Satan was destroyed, at least in part and God was glorified. Isn't this consistant with God's character and purpose? If so, why all the dispute about including it, or it not being consistant, or who caused it. The bottom line according to the story is that God allowed Satan to hurt Job and Job remained faithful which brought destruction upon satan and glory to God. Isn't that the whole point?


A couple stipulations:
1. The idea that God gave "special permission" to satan, or that satan needed special permission, I think does not pan out. Satan never asked for permission to do anything. He was trying to get God to afflict Job.
2. Satan seemed unaware that Job was open to attack, and the statement of God "look, everything is in your hand" was not a granting of permission... it was a mere statement describing an already existing condition of whcih satan was not aware.
3. Satan does not need, nor does he request permission from God to do anything to mankind. Look around you at the sickness, death, poverty, demonic oppression, wars, sin, etc etc etc. Nobody asked if is was Ok to do these things... leastways not satan. God may limit satan's efforts... but not endorse or authenticate them.

My point is this... satan, nature, and men have "standing permission" to do anything they want, and no-one needs to ask God for permission to do anything. This completely exonerates God from any involvement at all in the evils and tragedies of the world.

If God does become involved, it is more likely that it will be for saving, deliverance, and healing. In the Job story.. the involvement of God was to limit the rightful claim satan had to kill Job, and ultimately to heal Job and restore to him multiple times over what He had lost.
 
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JimfromOhio

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A couple stipulations:
1. The idea that God gave "special permission" to satan, or that satan needed special permission, I think does not pan out. Satan never asked for permission to do anything. He was trying to get God to afflict Job.
2. Satan seemed unaware that Job was open to attack, and the statement of God "look, everything is in your hand" was not a granting of permission... it was a mere statement describing an already existing condition of whcih satan was not aware.
3. Satan does not need, nor does he request permission form God to do anything to mankind. Look around you at the sickness, death, poverty, demonic oppression, wars, sin, etc etc etc. Nobody asked if is was Ok to do these things... leastways not satan. God may limit satan's efforts... but not endorse or authenticate them.

My point is this... satan, nature, and men have "standing permission" to do anything they want, and no-one needs to ask God for permission to do anything. This completely exonerates God from any involvement at all in the evils and tragedies of the world.

If God does become involved, it is more likely that it will be for saving, deliverance, and healing. In the Job story.. the involvement of God was to limit the rightful claim satan had to kill Job, and ultimately to heal Job and restore to him multiple times over what He had lost.

If Satan do not need permission, then God is not control of this creations. Don't you think what you have said contradicts the Word of God? This is directly from the Word of God. God governs (controls) the world (Isa. 40:22-24), the nations (Isa. 40:15-17), and us (Proverbs 16:9). God would NOT be God if He does not control what He has created. There so much reasoning without scriptural support.

Satan may not be aware that God is taking advantage of Satan's plans. God knows everything before Satan even think up a plan. Satan may be powerful but not all knowing as God. Satan was direct while God observe with permission. This is what God said of His servant, Job. Then the LORD asked Satan, "Have you noticed my servant Job? He is the finest man in all the earth--a man of complete integrity. He fears God and will have nothing to do with evil."

Job 2:3 Then the LORD asked Satan, "Have you noticed my servant Job? He is the finest man in all the earth--a man of complete integrity. He fears God and will have nothing to do with evil. And he has maintained his integrity, even though you persuaded me to harm him without cause."

The book of Esther show how God controls history through providence. There isn't a miracle in the book and the name of God isn't mentioned but at the same time, without anyone realizing that God is always in control of every single event in this world. The king mentioned in Esther favored Esther and Mordecai, spared all the Jewish people, made Mordecai the Prime Minister and hanged Haman on the gallows he build himself for the Jewish people and preserved the nation Israel.
 
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razzelflabben

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A couple stipulations:
1. The idea that God gave "special permission" to satan, or that satan needed special permission, I think does not pan out. Satan never asked for permission to do anything. He was trying to get God to afflict Job.
Well, my point was that this is a minor point of the whole story and one that is quite plainly written. God gave satan permission. Who asked for permission is not part of the statement I made.
2. Satan seemed unaware that Job was open to attack, and the statement of God "look, everything is in your hand" was not a granting of permission... it was a mere statement describing an already existing condition of whcih satan was not aware.
And yet it clearly says that God gave satan permission to hurt Job but not to take his life. Interesting isn't it?
3. Satan does not need, nor does he request permission form God to do anything to mankind. Look around you at the sickness, death, poverty, demonic oppression, wars, sin, etc etc etc. Nobody asked if is was Ok to do these things... leastways not satan. God may limit satan's efforts... but not endorse or authenticate them.
Don't see how that is part of anything I said, but okay, it seems to me that satan is always bound by the same thing in our lives today as well as in Job, satan only has what power is given to him by God. If God puts a hedge around my family, satan can't hurt us, if God says, I will allow you to be hurt, then satan's attacks will be able to hurt us. Plain and simple seems to me and consistant with what God says and what you said, so why all the debate? I don't get it?
My point is this... satan, nature, and men have "standing permission" to do anything they want, and no-one needs to ask God for permission to do anything. This completely exonerates God from any involvement at all in the evils and tragedies of the world.
It exonerates nothing, God can prevent it, that makes Him involved, that is what miracles are all about, God's power over the enemy. That as far as my point goes is the point of Job, God's will was carried out throught Job's life, in that satan was destroyed and God glorified.
If God does become involved, it is more likely that it will be for saving, deliverance, and healing. In the Job story.. the involvement of God was to limit the rightful claim satan had to kill Job, and ultimately to heal Job and restore to him multiple times over what He had lost.
How could God heal except that there is sickness? How could God save except that there are lost? How could God provide except that there is need? Point being, God can prevent all these things if He so chose, but He chooses to allow these things to influence our lives and then chooses as well to show grace and heal, provide, etc. Why? In the case of Job, to show Job who He really is. Isn't that the same reason every time?
 
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SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
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Thanks for quoting my post in your post. I am not sure if you read it... but thanks anywho.^_^
Well, my point was that this is a minor point of the whole story and one that is quite plainly written. God gave satan permission. Who asked for permission is not part of the statement I made.And yet it clearly says that God gave satan permission to hurt Job but not to take his life. Interesting isn't it? Don't see how that is part of anything I said, but okay, it seems to me that satan is always bound by the same thing in our lives today as well as in Job, satan only has what power is given to him by God. If God puts a hedge around my family, satan can't hurt us, if God says, I will allow you to be hurt, then satan's attacks will be able to hurt us. Plain and simple seems to me and consistant with what God says and what you said, so why all the debate? I don't get it? It exonerates nothing, God can prevent it, that makes Him involved, that is what miracles are all about, God's power over the enemy. That as far as my point goes is the point of Job, God's will was carried out throught Job's life, in that satan was destroyed and God glorified. How could God heal except that there is sickness? How could God save except that there are lost? How could God provide except that there is need? Point being, God can prevent all these things if He so chose, but He chooses to allow these things to influence our lives and then chooses as well to show grace and heal, provide, etc. Why? In the case of Job, to show Job who He really is. Isn't that the same reason every time?
 
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