Omni Benevolence

Umber · Aug 30, 2006

I was looking around the internet, typing in phrases like "cattle prod" and "angry bear", and I came across a site that presented a valid point. I'm assuming the number of points under each column is little more than a hyperbolic means of indicating such an oddity, but look:

Should we fear God?

No:

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 1 John 4:8 God is Love. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Yes

Leviticus 25:17
Thou shalt fear thy God:for I am the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 6:2That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments. Deuteronomy 6:13, 10:20 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God. Deuteronomy 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 31:12 Gather the people together, men and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 31:13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God. Joshua 4:24 That all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever. Joshua 24:14 Fear the Lord ... and put away the gods which your fathers served. 1 Samuel 12:14 If ye will fear the LORD, and serve him, and obey his voice, and not rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall both ye and also the king that reigneth over you continue following the LORD your God: 1 Samuel 12:24 Fear the Lord. 2 Kings 17:39 But the LORD your God ye shall fear; and he shall deliver you out of the hand of all your enemies. 1 Chronicles 16:25 The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. Job 28:28 The fear of the LORD, that is wisdom. Psalm 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever. Psalm 25:14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him. Psalm 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD. Psalm 33:18 The eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him. Psalm 34:9 O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him. Psalm 96:4 For the LORD is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. Psalm 103:11 Great is his mercy toward them that fear him. Psalm 103:13 The LORD pitieth them that fear him. Psalm 03:17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him. Psalm 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Psalm 112:1 Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD. Psalm 115:13 He will bless them that fear the LORD. Psalm 128:1 Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD. Psalm 47:11 The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge
Proverbs 22:4 By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life. Proverbs 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD. Ecclesiates 5:7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God. Ecclesiastes 12:13 Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Isaiah 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.Jeremaih 5:22 Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence? Matthew 10:28, Luke 12:5 Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Luke 1:50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation. 2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Colossians 3:22 Servants, obey in all thingsyour masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 1 Peter 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come:
And a fair few of these are from the New Testament.

...should we fear God? Probably not...but what's with that? :scratch:

ebia · Aug 30, 2006

According to N.T. Wright (I haven't checked it myself) the most common instruction in the bible is "do not be afraid".

The author of 1 John has it spot on in your quotes above.

Umber · Aug 30, 2006

But if the most common instruction is "do not be afraid", and there are all those "Fear your God!" excerpts as referenced above, things just get even more confusing and contradictory.

There are two extrememly common messages than both directly oppose each other. And I know "The Bible is contradictory" is a really overused argument, but I am confused. This is way beyond most petty differences.

ebia · Aug 30, 2006

Umber said:
But if the most common instruction is "do not be afraid", and there are all those "Fear your God!" excerpts as referenced above, things just get even more confusing and contradictory.

There are two extrememly common messages than both directly oppose each other. And I know "The Bible is contradictory" is a really overused argument, but I am confused. This is way beyond most petty differences.

Why shouldn't the bible be confusing? God is complex - way beyond simple discriptions.

Umber · Aug 30, 2006

These are tow fundamental teachings that directly conflict.
I can't help but see that as being a lot more than complex. It's nigh-on nonsensical.

ebia · Aug 30, 2006

Umber said:
These are tow fundamental teachings that directly conflict.
I can't help but see that as being a lot more than complex. It's nigh-on nonsensical.

The bible contains people's perceptions of God. The full picture can't be contained within the whole thing, let alone within any given part.

sinner/SAVED · Aug 30, 2006

Most of the instances that you cite of the phrase to "fear God" come from the Old Testament and are translated from the Hebrew word "YARE" (pronounced yah-ray) which literally means to hold in reverence. This "fear" is different from the other "fear" words which mean alarm, dread, or terror.

LilLamb219 · Aug 30, 2006

This can be looked at from a Law and Gospel perspective. The Law shows us what we are to do and not do (though we can't do it perfectly) and the Gospel is what God does for us (mainly for salvation). The Law always accuses us and because of that, we will "fear" God knowing we cannot be perfect for Him. The Gospel shows us God's love, mercy and compassion for us since He died on the cross in our substitute. Our response to this Gospel (for those who believe) is to trust God, hence, the fear of his wrath that we deserve leaves us.

Edited to add that since we are still in the sinful human body, that both fear and no fear will struggle within us until we die or Christ's return. The Law and Gospel will both continue to work within us, each having its effect.

Umber · Aug 30, 2006

sinner/SAVED said:
Most of the instances that you cite of the phrase to "fear God" come from the Old Testament and are translated from the Hebrew word "YARE" (pronounced yah-ray) which literally means to hold in reverence. This "fear" is different from the other "fear" words which mean alarm, dread, or terror.

Oho! I though it might be a translation issue...but pointing that out would be self-defeatist...plus it's rather sketchy. The Bible's meaning has been "amended" infrequently, why wouldn't that have been fixed? Still, is logical, and that ruins everything. XD
But I still maintain that it is rather amusing to look at. ^__^

Rafael · Aug 30, 2006

Life is more complex than just cut and dried meanings to words. They have to be applied in context to situations.
Is it wise to recognize that God has the power of life and death and those that practice evil have reason to fear? Yes! However, those that come into a love relationship with Him find that His mercies are new every day and that when our love is perfected, fear of punishment is gone. Does a child fear its father, thinking the father will kill the child over mistakes made? No, but would it fear a stranger in the house - yes. Love makes the difference.

1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

Pr 1:7 ¶ The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Umber · Aug 30, 2006

Hmm, interesting concept.

But there's still far more emphasis on fear.

ROGER459 · Aug 30, 2006

Umber said:
I was looking around the internet, typing in phrases like "cattle prod" and "angry bear", and I came across a site that presented a valid point. I'm assuming the number of points under each column is little more than a hyperbolic means of indicating such an oddity, but look:

Should we fear God?

No:

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 1 John 4:8 God is Love. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Yes

Leviticus 25:17
Thou shalt fear thy God:for I am the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 6:2That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments. Deuteronomy 6:13, 10:20 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God. Deuteronomy 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 31:12 Gather the people together, men and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 31:13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God. Joshua 4:24 That all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever. Joshua 24:14 Fear the Lord ... and put away the gods which your fathers served. 1 Samuel 12:14 If ye will fear the LORD, and serve him, and obey his voice, and not rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall both ye and also the king that reigneth over you continue following the LORD your God: 1 Samuel 12:24 Fear the Lord. 2 Kings 17:39 But the LORD your God ye shall fear; and he shall deliver you out of the hand of all your enemies. 1 Chronicles 16:25 The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. Job 28:28 The fear of the LORD, that is wisdom. Psalm 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever. Psalm 25:14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him. Psalm 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD. Psalm 33:18 The eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him. Psalm 34:9 O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him. Psalm 96:4 For the LORD is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. Psalm 103:11 Great is his mercy toward them that fear him. Psalm 103:13 The LORD pitieth them that fear him. Psalm 03:17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him. Psalm 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Psalm 112:1 Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD. Psalm 115:13 He will bless them that fear the LORD. Psalm 128:1 Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD. Psalm 47:11 The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge
Proverbs 22:4 By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life. Proverbs 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD. Ecclesiates 5:7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God. Ecclesiastes 12:13 Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Isaiah 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.Jeremaih 5:22 Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence? Matthew 10:28, Luke 12:5 Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Luke 1:50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation. 2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Colossians 3:22 Servants, obey in all thingsyour masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 1 Peter 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come:
And a fair few of these are from the New Testament.

...should we fear God? Probably not...but what's with that?

(Proverbs 1:7) The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

(Proverbs 16:6) By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

(Acts 5:9-10-11) Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
(Acts 5:10) Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
(Acts 5:11) And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things. [Fear of God]

Thanks, Roger459

Umber · Aug 30, 2006

That doesn't answer my question. XD
Should we fear God?

NothingButTheBlood · Aug 30, 2006

I didn't walk around afraid of my dad all the time but I knew when he was angry and feared him then. If your not living as God wants I think you need to fear Him. If you are trying and working with Him I don't see a reason to worry about it.

The Midge · Aug 30, 2006

Umber said:
...should we fear God? Probably not...but what's with that?

Should we fear fire?

A match?
A candle?
A lit cooker?
A furnace?
A firework?
A bonfire?
A forest fire or the Towering Inferno?

Fire has to be respected always as does God. It is dangerous if we do not. Fear of God is like respect of fire. If we abuse it we could get burned, if we are negligent of it a bigger fire may be raised, one we cannot control or flee. If we ignore God's teaching we do so at our peril. That is why to fear God is the root of Wisdom.

The blood of Jesus is like a heat proof suit. It enables us to be with God when we would be burned to a cinder otherwise. We shoud always be aware of what would happen without it's protection. Even though we need not fear for our safety.

Umber · Aug 30, 2006

So you should fear God; and thus have cause to respect him?
Respect and Fear are not in this case hand in hand, I suppose.

Key · Aug 31, 2006

Your Question is: Should we fear God?

What a great question, and I hope I can answer this for you.

Yes and No

Like anyone or anything that wields more power or ruler ship then one selves, like anything beyond us, we hold a bit of fear of it. We approach with caution and some cases reverence and respect. This because God is beyond us, and ruler over us, we should respect him and hold a bit of fear of him. IE: We should never view God with Contempt, or ridicule, etc, etc.

Because of our fear of God, we hold Holy that which is his, and treat with respect and awe the gifts and blessings he has Given us, as well as to hold him in a place of power over us.

IE: We would fear our rulers (Or those in Command over us), such like, we would always be respectful of our employers because we hold a bit of fear of them, because they hold in this hands the power of our employment.

God Holds in his hands, the salvation and eternal destination of our soul, so we should have an equal level of this respectful fear of God because of his position over us.

We should also Embrace God, like a Father, key word here, is Like a Father we (If raised right) should have a bit of fear and respect for our fathers, but also a love, a love that we know is not there BECAUSE we fear them, but because they Love us, and have a special bond with us.

So, we Should Fear God, and Love God, but we should not Love him out of Fear, and understand that with Gods Love, we have nothing on this earth that we should fear, for we have a Bond and Personal Relationship with God.

But still there is (Like a Parent) a respectful fear, and an endless love.

So I am sorry to say, that, the answer is as the bible has told us, To Do Both.

Have I answered this Question for you?

God Bless

Key

Pure_Joy · Aug 31, 2006

Umber said:
I was looking around the internet, typing in phrases like "cattle prod" and "angry bear", and I came across a site that presented a valid point. I'm assuming the number of points under each column is little more than a hyperbolic means of indicating such an oddity, but look:

Should we fear God?

No:

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 1 John 4:8 God is Love. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Yes

Leviticus 25:17
Thou shalt fear thy God:for I am the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 6:2That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments. Deuteronomy 6:13, 10:20 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God. Deuteronomy 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 31:12 Gather the people together, men and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 31:13 And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God. Joshua 4:24 That all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever. Joshua 24:14 Fear the Lord ... and put away the gods which your fathers served. 1 Samuel 12:14 If ye will fear the LORD, and serve him, and obey his voice, and not rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall both ye and also the king that reigneth over you continue following the LORD your God: 1 Samuel 12:24 Fear the Lord. 2 Kings 17:39 But the LORD your God ye shall fear; and he shall deliver you out of the hand of all your enemies. 1 Chronicles 16:25 The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. Job 28:28 The fear of the LORD, that is wisdom. Psalm 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever. Psalm 25:14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him. Psalm 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD. Psalm 33:18 The eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him. Psalm 34:9 O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him. Psalm 96:4 For the LORD is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. Psalm 103:11 Great is his mercy toward them that fear him. Psalm 103:13 The LORD pitieth them that fear him. Psalm 03:17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him. Psalm 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Psalm 112:1 Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD. Psalm 115:13 He will bless them that fear the LORD. Psalm 128:1 Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD. Psalm 47:11 The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge
Proverbs 22:4 By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life. Proverbs 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD. Ecclesiates 5:7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God. Ecclesiastes 12:13 Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Isaiah 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.Jeremaih 5:22 Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence? Matthew 10:28, Luke 12:5 Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Luke 1:50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation. 2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Colossians 3:22 Servants, obey in all thingsyour masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 1 Peter 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come:
And a fair few of these are from the New Testament.

...should we fear God? Probably not...but what's with that?

Fear GOd as in He is super powerful RESPECT him

Umber · Aug 31, 2006

Ok...

Question2:

Should I respect God? He has never revealed himself to me, I only stopped believing he existed at the age of 13. The idea that suffering is "part of God's plan" makes me feel like humankind is just a big old ant farm for God to poke at for a few hundred years and then leave when he gets bored.
Doesn't respect, from an individual, have to be earned?

Key · Aug 31, 2006

Umber said:
Ok...

Question2:

Should I respect God? ....

Doesn't respect, from an individual, have to be earned?

Yes and No.

Do we expect our employers to "Earn our Respect"? No we do not. They have employed us, as such, we respect them because of the authority they have over us. No we might never respect our employers as people, or as individuals, (They would not be on the list of people we would hang with) but we respect them because of their position.

The same with Judges, Law Enforcment, or any position of the like.

Same with Scientist, do they have to "Earn our individual Respect" not really, they have done things before hand to place themselves in a position that deserves respect.

Just as God made this planet for us, and had laid down the path to Salvation for us, he has done things that have placed him in a position of respect, as such, many would argue that he no longer needs to "Re-Earn it".

Have I provided your an answer?

God Bless

Key

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