The Spiritual Gift Of Prophecy - is it really a gift?

Thunderchild

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No sir - you had a VERY good mentor - the kind that no prophet in training can afford to be without. However, your mentor it seems does not know his own rank (or more likely, denies the knowledge), else your church would not have suffered the decline that it did when he left. If you wanted something nice to do as a prophet (and it does make a pleasant change) you couldn't get much nicer than to confirm in him his spiritual gift as an apostle.
 
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e4God

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Thanx Thunder for your encouragement and help with this topic.

That kind of sums it up, I guess.... The gift of Prophecy is both a blessing and a burden, just as many of the gifts.

Perhaps If I were in the right body, the burden would be as light as Christ's yoke is easy. :)
 
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Thunderchild

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Ah now... it is the prophet's duty to make it possible for the local body to be right, just as it is the apostle's duty to make new local bodies for the prophets to make it possible for them to keep it right also.

You might benefit from a quick peek at the thread "a modern apostle - hypothetical."
 
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e4God

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Shane:

I mentioned mysticism in some of my posts. I was referring to Christian Mysticism, or an experience within Christianity that includes events that are outside mainstream teachings in the Body.

This sometimes refers to the practice of the Charismatic gifts, especially in contemplative prayer or contemplative lifestyle.

The new age group thinks they "invented" some of this stuff... But Christians had it first. Read the prophets, and book of Daniel :)

Experiences may include visions in prayer, divine 'knowing', Holy Wisdom, frequent 'promptings' and 'leadings' of the Holy Spirit, inspired poetic writing that comes from the Spirit, physical manifestations of spiritual experiences, (eg: stigmatta) etc.

The purpose is to Glorify God and edify the individual or the body, else it is surely in error.  Mysticism without Christian in front of it is basically stuff of the new age movement, though it dates back a LONG time and is claimed by other religions as well, eg: bhuddist mysticism or muslim mystics, etc. 

It is easy to say this stuff is all wet, or that the believer has strayed into error,  But error is no more or less likely than as when a conventional Bible believer strays into legalism or relies too much on grace.     
 
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Shane Roach

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I wouldn't refer to charismatic gifts as mysticism, myself, but that's your call. I'm not familiar with "contemplative" prayer or lifestyle other than the obvious meanings of the words so maybe you couls elaborate. Not sure what to make of stigmata to be honest. On the other hand surely Job's trials would be something of a "physical manifestation of spiritual infleunces". :)

I personally don't refer to Christian spiritualism as "mysticism" because mysticism has an implication of mystery that I find incompatible with Christianity spirituality, which is supposed to be more about edification and not about secret knowledges. Again, this is just a quibble over definitions I think I understand where you're coming from now though.
 
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e4God

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Shane:

The term "Contemplative" or "Contemplative Lifestyle" in Catholic tradition refers to monks, nuns, etc who lived in monasteries, withdrawn from the world...

I am not Catholic but was quite well exposed to it at one time (by marriage).

This may not apply to anybody else but me, and I am making no accusations, only sharing.

I once felt very much as you did about the term 'mystery' I was VERY critical about the Catholic teaching that we just accept things we cannot understand and call them "mysteries".

God, man, I would think, use your brain and work on it! Don't be lazy.

Since then I have thrown down some idols in my life. Some of the idols were named 'intellect' and 'understanding'. Now I accept that there are many things I do not understand, and many things the church does not understand. This does not mean I have become intellectually lazy. I do not pass everyting off as a Mystery, these days, but I certainly am more accepting of the concept that we cannot understand all of the Mystery of God and how and when He does what He does....

Scripture says, "Who can understand the mind of God. His ways are not our ways."

Paul also said, in his great passage on Love, something along the lines of "Even if you were given the ability to understand ALL MYSTERY, it would be hollow and meaningless without love. This passage makes such understanding seem not likely.... or describes it as a rare gifting.

Who am I to argue with that?

Now, it is a mystery to me why some Christians never experience their spirituality in the terms I described as Mystic. :)

But their walk can be judged valid by their fruit.

You call it common Christian Spirituality. That may be a right terminology. Maybe I am misusing the term? But I think these things I mentioned are also correctly called Christian Mysticism.

Anybody else ?
 
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Thunderchild

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Mystery (middle English definition) - prophecy couched in symbolic language or imagery. The current meaning of mystery retains some of that same definition, a mystery being something complex to the point of incomprehensibility. The term continues to be used in places in the Bible, retaining the original meaning, not the current.
 
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Shane Roach

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Mystery and "mystic" are different words. There is a sense in which I could agree with you calling it "Christian Mysticism", but because of the very strong connection between mysticism and paganism/occultism, it is just not a phrase I would use.

Obviously yes some things are a mystery. That is the function of a prophet though, to clarify the mystery. It is not the dreamer, but the interpreter of the dream that is the prophet. At least, in my understanding. Obviously some do both.
 
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Thunderchild

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Quite correct - the prophet understands what he or she is given. One who dreams but cannot understand has often been handed the prophecy (that is, the prophecy is a message to the dreamer) but needs a prophet to interpret the message.

A mystery is different again - the prophet speaks, but his message is not couched in terms that can be understood by all who hear it - the message is keyed to the ear of the one who needs to understand. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear" type stuff.
 
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Gerry

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I do not have time to read through all threads, so I have read only the question. In regards to "gifts" I find this verse quite comforting: "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" Matthew 7:11 Surely as a Christian you do not believe any "gift" from God can be a curse!!! And there is no curse in being a martyr. What an honor and blessing to die for our God!

Remember that little lucy has a counterfeit for every good thing. If a gift proves to be a curse, it is NOT from God!
 
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e4God

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The prophet does not always understand!

Read the book of Daniel and tell me if he understood.

Originally posted by Gerry
I do not have time to read through all threads, so I have read only the question. In regards to "gifts" I find this verse quite comforting: "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" Matthew 7:11 Surely as a Christian you do not believe any "gift" from God can be a curse!!! And there is no curse in being a martyr. What an honor and blessing to die for our God!

Remember that little lucy has a counterfeit for every good thing. If a gift proves to be a curse, it is NOT from God!
 
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Gerry

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Originally posted by e4God
The prophet does not always understand!

Read the book of Daniel and tell me if he understood.


Read the Book of Daniel and tell you if who understood what? Please tell me what is your point? That Daniel did not understand his prophecy? That he did not know he was going to die? Tell you what? And please tell me the point you are trying to make? OK?
 
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e4God

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Gerry:

If you don't have time to read then how will you grow in wisdom?

My point was to refute a statement to the effect that prophets always know the meaning of their dreams and visions.

My statement was that Prophets do not always know the meaning of the messages they are given. Proof text listed below:

Thunderchild:

See Daniel Chapters 7, 8 and 12.  In chapters 7 and 8 he had visions that he did not understand.  He then prayed for understanding or asked another 'person' in the vision what these things meant.    In one case, the lack of understanding persisted until God sent Gabriel the Archangel to explain it (after much prayer). 

In Daniel 12:8 the text clearly indicates Daniel did not understand a vision that was given to him, and that it was never to be explained to him by any other person or angel.  The message was not for him or even for his time.  Scholars have had a field day with his 70 weeks, but he did not understand it.
 
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Shane Roach

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If all Daniel ever did was see visions he couldn't understand he would not be a prophet. A person can have visions and interpret some and not interpret others. As long as he is not falsely interpreting he is not a false prophet. He gives the vision and lets it go at that.

And please refrain from telling people"go read such and such". I've read Daniel before. It is not everyone else that is missing the point, it is you. And it's not even that big of a deal, just a misunderstanding. it does not require someone to go back and re-read Daniel to straighten it out.
 
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