What Takes Place When A Soul Dies?

Ask any believer of Jesus Christ this question and the standard response will be "you go to heaven or hell." This popular idea that good men go immediately upon death to heaven and bad men to "the other place" is founded on the Hellenic doctrine that man has an immortal soul, which cannot by definition be subject to death.1

The Bible does not teach that souls are immortal --- only God is immortal.2 Neither does the Bible teach that upon death the souls that die in Christ go to heaven as their reward (or paradise if the soul died before Christ resurrected. R.B. Thieme, Jr. in his booklet Victorious Proclamation, pg 23, states that paradise was the section where the souls of all believers of the Old Testament resided after death [sounds like the sorting of the wheat and the tares even before Jesus has the chance to do this when he comes again and / or judging even before the judgment day comes]. No human being ever went to heaven until Christ entered into the presence of the Father and was accepted as a man). I have problems with this statement because I read in Isaiah 53:9 that Christ made his grave with the wicked and the rich. So that to me means no separation of good and bad souls when they die. I also read in the Bible that no one has ascended into heaven except Jesus, not even king David ascended to heaven. This is touched on later in the paper.

Jesus, His disciples, and the prophets of old never spoke of the blessed hope being that of disembodied souls going to paradise/heaven for their reward. On the contrary, the Bible teaches that the blessed hope is that of resurrection into our spiritually immortal bodies when Christ comes again. 3
Let us look to the Bible to find the condition of those who have died and await the bodily resurrection of the dead. We will begin in the Old Testament where we are told that death is a sleep.

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers….." 4

"And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him." 5

Notice that Isaac breathed his last breath, died, and was buried. Moses does not tell us that Isaac's disembodied soul is now in paradise.
We find the LORD instructing Nathan, the prophet, to speak these words to David: "And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers,……" 6

We find the prophet Daniel telling us that some souls sleeping will change into their immortal bodies others not. "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 7

Job tells us what happens when a soul dies. So man lieth down [death], and riseth not: TILL the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. 13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 8

Here is what the apostle Paul teaches on what takes place when a soul dies: "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption 9

And here is what Peter had to say regarding David. "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 10 Do read again what Peter said, he said, "let me freely speak unto you….." Why did Peter not tell us that David's disembodied soul is now in Heaven with the Lord? Jesus had already ascended to Heaven when Peter spoke these words to the crowd - so why is David not in Heaven at this present time looking down on us as many well meaning pastors tell their flock when loved ones have died? Peter did not freely tell us this because he knows the Hebrew Bible; he knows when we rise again as did Martha in speaking to Jesus about Lazarus that died four days prior to Jesus coming to them. Here is what Martha said to Jesus. Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 11

This is what Jesus had to say to His disciples when speaking about Lazarus: After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up." His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead, and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him." 12
We should see clearly with the verses above that when a soul dies that soul will sleep in the ground until his resurrection takes place. "For since by man came death, by man came also the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; AFTERWARD they that are Christ's AT HIS COMING." 13

When reading this verse, I can see in my mind a schoolteacher standing over his students and saying: "now boys and girls we just read when Christ will make us alive - someone please tell me -when do we become conscious again to receive our immortal bodies?" Eager hands wave in the air and one child can't wait for the teacher to pick him and so he shouts, "I know…I know! We come alive and receive our immortal bodies when Christ returns!"

One steeped in man's tradition that the soul is immortal, which is the mindset of the Greek philosopher Plato which infiltrated the early church, might say, "but what about Paul's statements in 2 Corinthians 5:8 and Phillipians 1:23?" To which my reply is, stop believing the serpent's lie given to Eve "thou shalt not die" and realize that we need to keep in context what it means to be "with the Lord." When did Paul tell us we would be "with the Lord?" Did he not tell us those in Christ would be "with the Lord" at His second coming? 14 And we just read that the dead would be resurrected and gathered to Christ at His coming. Do consider what Paul told the Corinthians. "In a moment in the twinkling an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." 15

The prophet Isaiah is yet another witness to the fact that we receive immortality at the appointed time. But your dead will live; their bodies [the whole conscious man] will rise. You who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy. Your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. 16

Oh, how I long for this day when all those in Christ Jesus will either rise from the dead or in a twinkling be changed into their immortal bodies. The Apostle Paul longs for this day as well.

In closing, listen well to what Paul said to the Romans: Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 17 Did Paul say that we groaned for our disembodied soul to go to Heaven when we die? No, of course not! Paul knows that when a soul dies; that soul knows nothing - the soul's conscious is no longer alive thinking. Please read Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 9:10. For when a soul dies the spirit [in Hebrew "Ruwach" - the very breath of God that He breathed into man to make him a living soul] returns to God and we cease to exist until our appointed time. His breath [Ruwach] goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. 18 There is no thought of time in the grave; you close your eyes and, yes indeed, the next event that dead souls will see is his resurrection. I pray you too will take part in the first resurrection.
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FOOTNOTES:

What Happens When We Die, by Anthony Buzzard, pg. 9
1 Timothy 6:16
Titus 2:13, 1 Corinthians 15:50-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16
Deuteronomy 31:16
Genesis 35:29
2 Samuel 7:12
Daniel 12:2-3
Job 14:12-14
Acts 12:36-37
Acts 2:29
John 11:24
John 11:11-15
I Corinthians 15:21-23
I Thessalonians 4:16
I Corinthians 15:5-53
Isaiah 26:19
Romans 8:23-24
Psalm 146:4

SO VERY TRUE DRMMJR!

I used to believe that the soul was immortal and went on to heaven or hell but then I understood the truth.

and what is that passage that man is like the beast? they go to the same grave and return to dust from whence they came? oh yes

Eccl 3:19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

if what befalleth man befalleth beasts - then the mean pitbulls and rockweilers are in "hell" and the sweet loving collies are in "heaven" hmmmm

Fakemind...you have a wonderful spirit about you - thank you! Consider this, okay and then give thoughts"Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me in your kingdom.’ He replied to him, ‘Amen, I say to you today you will be with me in paradise."
This verse will take two entirely different meanings depending on where you put the comma. In Greek there are no commas, so when the Bible is translated into English the translator puts the comma where he thinks it should go. But if the translator believes in Greek type spirits that leave your body at death, he is going to put the comma after "you" before "today." The other place it can go, the correct place is after "today."
There are many examples of people saying "I tell you something today (right now)." It was a common way of speaking. In my files I have a list of 49 examples of this way of speaking. Here are seven of them:
"Take to heart these words which I enjoin on you today" (Deuteronomy 6:6).
"If you obey the commandments of the LORD, your God, which I enjoin on you today, loving him..." (Deuteronomy 30:16).
"I tell you now that you will certainly perish" (Deuteronomy 30:18).
"I call heaven and earth today to witness against you" Deuteronomy 30:19).
"The statues and the decrees which I enjoin on you today" (Deuteronomy 7:11).
"Besides setting up on Mount Ebal these stones concerning which I commanded you today" (Deuteronomy 27:4).
"Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men" (Acts 20:26).
All these are excellent examples, but the best is Paul’s statement, "I declare to you today." It is identical to Jesus’ statement.
I say to you today = I declare to you today
Jesus and Paul are saying. "I am telling you this moment, right now."
I have in my files 44 more examples like the ones above
Let’s see the consequences of both. If we use the first interpretation that the thief was in paradise with Jesus that day, then we run into the same problems that we had with the spirit of Jesus going to the Father. Jesus tells us three days after his burial that he has not yet been to the Father (John 20:17). He also tells us that he has been in the earth, not in paradise (John 12:32). If Jesus has not been to the Father, then how can we expect the thief to be in paradise with Jesus that very same day? Notice also that the thief asks Jesus to remember him when he comes into his kingdom.
The kingdom of God = Paradise
The kingdom of God has obviously not come yet. After Jesus resurrected, he appeared to the Apostles and instructed them on the kingdom of God for forty days (Acts 1:3). They then asked him:
"Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6).
Even after the resurrection, the kingdom of God had still not come – Jesus is not here on the earth. So how could the thief have been in the kingdom on that very same day?
If we use the other way of interpreting this verse, it means that the thief asked Jesus to remember him when his kingdom comes. Jesus replies to him at that moment, that on that day, you will be with. With this interpretation there are no contradictions and we do not have to throw away 20 to 30 verses on death that will also contradict the previous interpretation.

The problem with Enoch is two-fold Fakemind.
The first is in Genesis 5:24, it states: "Then Enoch walked with God, and he was no longer here, for God took him."

In order to understand this verse you will have to read all of chapter five. People claim that since of everyone else it is said, "then he died" and of Enoch it is not, but instead it says that he "walked with God, for God took him," then that means that Enoch went to heaven with God. If you read the paragraph that talks about Enoch without this preconceived idea, you will come to the conclusion that Enoch died.
It says in verse 23:"That the whole lifetime of Enoch was three hundred and sixty-five years."

To me that implies that Enoch’s whole lifetime was three hundred and sixty-five years and then he died. I do not see any hint that Enoch did not die. It says that "Enoch walked with God," but so did Noah in Genesis 6:10:
"Noah, a good man and blameless in that age, for he walked with God."
"Walked with God," means that the person follows God’s will. "God took him," means that God took his breath of life and that person died. We still use this saying today, we commonly say that God took a family member or a friend when we mean that someone died. The word translated as "took" is the Hebrew word laqah. It means:
laqah – of removal by death (The Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon).

An excellent example of the usage of this word is in Ezekiel 33:6:
"But if the watchman sees the sword coming and fails to blow the warning trumpet, so that the sword comes and takes (laqah) anyone, I will hold the watchman responsible for that person’s death, even though that person is taken (laqah) because of their own sin."

Notice how it is used, the sword comes and takes someone, in other words, kills someone. This is why the watchman will be held responsible for that person’s death.

So why is there a difference between the phrases of all the other people mentioned and Enoch? There is no clear-cut answer, but my opinion is that something happened to Enoch that cut his life short. Either an accident or illness, but something that prevented him from dying of old age like the others. Everyone mentioned lived to over nine hundred years old, except Lamech who lived to almost eight hundred years old. However, Enoch only lived to be three hundred and sixty-five years old. Something happened to Enoch that cut his life short; this is why it is said, "God took him."

HEAR: The second verse is in Hebrews 11:5 where Paul is speaking about the faith of the ancients. It says:
"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was found no more because God had taken him."

The problem that we arrive at if we say that because of this verse Enoch did not die, is that the same author in the same chapter in verse 13 says that all the ancients that he was talking about (which Enoch was one of) have died:
"ALLTHESE DIED IN FAITH." So Abraham and Noah and Enoch and all the others mentioned died. So how do we explain verse 5? The clue is in knowing what the author meant when he said "That he should not see death." Obviously he does not mean that he did not die because he writes a few verses later that he did die.
In John 8:51 Jesus says:
"I say to you, whoever keeps my word will never see death."
This is identical to Hebrews 11:5. I do not think that Jesus meant that whoever keeps his word will be taken to heaven without ever experiencing death. It is more likely that Jesus means that whoever keeps his word will not experience eternal death. That they will be resurrected on the last day. Hebrews 11:5 meaning is probably along these lines.
For me, I am convinced that Enoch did die. I cannot let one verse that I cannot explain fully counter all the evidence in the massive amount of verses that are very specific on death.
Paul who wrote Hebrews says in Romans 5:12:
"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned."
Death came to all men, that includes Enoch. This statement of Paul also strengthens the position of Hebrews 11:13 "They all died in faith."
If we isolate Enoch from all the evidence on death, the preponderance of the evidence is about 75% in favor that Enoch died, and 25% that he did not see death. If we do not isolate Enoch from all the other Scriptures on death Enoch is really not a factor.
If Enoch went to heaven, then again, we have to assume that Jesus was wrong in John 3:13:
"No one has gone up to heaven...."

Fakemind - never apologize for debating the Holy Writ with others - it is how we sharpen our beliefs, yes? We should always be like the Bereans of Acts 17:11

They all died, Fakemind, (dead as a doorknob as my kids state) - and it means just that...that they died a physical death and Enoch is included as died in the flesh

now for Elijah - please consider this - This verse has of course been taken to mean that Elijah went to heaven and then so will we when we die. The Jewish word that is translated as heaven literally means, "sky." I will explain this verse by saying that what happened to Elijah was not that he was taken up to heaven where God dwells, but that he was translated to another location on earth. This explanation is very easy to prove. Read 1 Kings 18:7-16 where Elijah is speaking to Obadiah, King Ahab’s vizier. We see in verse 8 that Elijah asks Obadiah to go and tell Ahab that Elijah is here. Obadiah replies that there is no nation or kingdom that Ahab has not searched for Elijah in, and that they could not find him. In verse12 Obadiah says to Elijah that he is afraid to go and tell Ahab that Elijah is here because when he leaves, the Spirit of the LORD will carry him off somewhere that he does not know, and Ahab will have him killed.
"After I leave you, the Spirit of the LORD will carry you to some place I do not know, and when I go to inform Ahab and he does not find you, he will have me killed."

Being translated is not too common in the Bible but it does happen. Philip was translated in Acts 8:39:
"When they came out of the water, The Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away and the eunuch saw him no more."
*****Another excellent verse to show that Elijah is still on earth after the event on the chariot of fire is that he writes a letter to King Jehoram in 2 Chronicles 21:10-13 telling him that the LORD will strike his people with a great plague. Verse 12 is worth quoting:
"He (Jehoram) received a letter from the prophet Elijah with this message."
The crucial point in these verses is that Elijah wrote a letter to King Jehoram who was the son of King Jehoshaphat. Elijah was transported during the reign of King Jehoshaphat. Jehoram came after Jehoshaphat, and it was Jehoram that received a letter from Elijah. The obvious conclusion is that Elijah is still alive here on earth. *****

If Elijah did go to heaven, then how could we explain Jesus’ statement in John 3:13: "No one has gone up to heaven."

Is Jesus wrong? Or is it that man’s interpretation of this verse is wrong?