I have alot riding on Christ

jfer45 said:

It's like the Roulette wheel. I can't verify you have the right or wrong number until the wheel stops. Many Christians spend so much energy trying to find the correct number (because they believe there is only one).

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That is atheism. Christianity is certain. It is based upon faith in the written word of God and the evidence of God himself, which is evidently seen in his creation. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
There is a strait gate, it is narrow and found by few, but it is the only way. If you find and follow this narrow path you will find salvation, if not, you will find damnation.

jfer45 said:

Sir, with all due respect I have read the Bible. I do have ears and eyes as well. Now that we have that clear, it would probably be wise of me to tell you that we most likely do not share what the Bible is. To me, the Bible is a historical product written by people living long ago. The Bible is not from God, but pointing towards the Spirit, God the Sacred etc.

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Sorry to disappoint you, but you have no eyes to see, and you have no ears to hear. You are wise in your own eyes (Pro 3:7). You have trusted in your own heart, as doeth a fool (Pro 28:26). If you truly had ears to hear you would believe, for faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

jfer45 said:

How is works sin per se?

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If you re-read my post I only said that sin was works. When speaking of the unregenerate man, ALL his works are sin. For EVERYTHING outside of faith is sin (Rom 14:23).

jfer45 said:

Am I wrong for not knowing?

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The first question was directed specifically to him so I'll let him answer it. But yes, Scripture says that people are destroyed for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6). The difference between you and him, is that he seems to have a desire to learn and know the truth, he is merely curious as to what the truth is.

jfer45 said:

So, we have yet one more requirement one must affirm in order to get into heaven. Jesus alone does not save if the Bible must be believed to be the word of God. One is still damned if one believes Jesus died for their sins, but God to not author the book of Genisis.

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As BigChrisfilm said, Jesus IS the Word of God (John 1). Well done BigChrisfilm!

Sincerely, Zach Doty

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:13-14

BigChrisfilm said:

There is a process. You can't believe Jesus is the son of God, and believe on him without first believing in the word of God. Believing the bible doesn't save you, but you can't even know who Christ is unless you believe the bible.

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Should we not be critical of any text we read? If I was not critical of what I read, I would be believe in time machines, underwater cities and that Bush is the antichrist. Simply put, I do not believe mental assent is what God is looking for? I sometimes ask myself a simple, but enlightening question: Does God really care what is in our heads when we die?

jfer45 said:

Should we not be critical of any text we read? If I was not critical of what I read, I would be believe in time machines, underwater cities and that Bush is the antichrist. Simply put, I do not believe mental assent is what God is looking for? I sometimes ask myself a simple, but enlightening question: Does God really care what is in our heads when we die?

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Simply put, if you don't follow the one, true, straight, narrow, way, you are lost.

Seriously, Solemnly, and all too Sincerely,
Zach Doty

"Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ." - 2 Corinthians 2:14-17

NarrowPathPilgrim said:

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

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Could you explain?

NarrowPathPilgrim said:

Sorry to disappoint you, but you have no eyes to see, and you have no ears to hear. You are wise in your own eyes (Pro 3:7). You have trusted in your own heart, as doeth a fool (Pro 28:26). If you truly had ears to hear you would believe, for faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

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I do not believe myself to be wise.

NarrowPathPilgrim said:

If you re-read my post I only said that sin was works. When speaking of the unregenerate man, ALL his works are sin. For EVERYTHING outside of faith is sin (Rom 14:23).

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The first time I heard this was on an audio CD by John Piper speaking on the Five Points of Calvinism. I believed this for a time, but believe this no longer. I do not read Paul's letter as a message to all people. I believe he is saying to the people in Rome do everything for God, the God we love and the God that is great. He is not saying that if you do good outside faith you are damned.

NarrowPathPilgrim said:

The first question was directed specifically to him so I'll let him answer it. But yes, Scripture says that people are destroyed for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6). The difference between you and him, is that he seems to have a desire to learn and know the truth, he is merely curious as to what the truth is.

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This is fine, but he told be he knew the truth. He is not merely curious, but he claims to have the answers, much like Pat Robertson, and the guys you see on TV(joking slightly of course).

BigChrisfilm said:

So you believe that I can't know the answers? Is that just as bold of a statement as "I know the answer"?

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I never said that. I merely said that you automatically told me that I was wrong when you yourself asked for input on the subject.

But I do disagree with your logic however to the second part. It is not "as bold" as you say in my estimation. If you were to tell me you know exactly how many stars there are in the universe right now, I would be skeptical. The statement "nobody right now can know how many stars there are in the universe" is not as bold as someone who claims to know the number.

BigChrisfilm said:

I don't know the number of stars in the sky, but I know how to get to heaven. It's the most logical choice IMO anyway. Let me ask you something, do you think you are a good person?

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Sometimes.

jfer45 said:

Sometimes.

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Please define "good", and please tell me who's definition you are relying on. Do you set the standards and define what is good and bad? Or does God?
By believing that you are "Good sometimes", you presuppose an absolute definition of good vs. evil; you also presuppose a source, one that is superior to you and your ideals. Who is this superior being that defines your standards of right vs. wrong? Who is your source?

Biblically, you are not saved. Therefore everything you do is evil, because it springs from an evil heart. You have no power within yourself to change that, unless God grants you the gift of faith.

NarrowPathPilgrim said:

Please define "good", and please tell me who's definition you are relying on. Do you set the standards and define what is good and bad? Or does God?
By believing that you are "Good sometimes", you presuppose an absolute source of good and evil, one that is superior to yourself. Who is that source?

Biblically, you are not saved. Therefore everything you do is evil, because it springs from an evil heart. You have no power within yourself to change that, unless God grants you the gift of faith.

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Well I didn't really want to get into a Moral Law discussion, but you forced me. I disagree with C.S. Lewis and others who claim to have evidence of a static Moral Law of Law of Human Nature. Morality, I believe, is discerned from mulitple sources. Our parents, friends and society all contribute to our notion to what is good and true; basically, we acquire our world view from our surrondings.

So, by that logic I am evil because God has not changed me therefore every evil deed I do (with my evil heart of course) is the result of a God who has not changed one of his creations.

BigChrisfilm said:

So do you think you have kept the 10 commandments? If so, I would like you to take a test, and see how well you do, k?

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Naw, I've broken a few.

jfer45 said:

Morality, I believe, is discerned from mulitple sources. Our parents, friends and society all contribute to our notion to what is good and true; basically, we acquire our world view from our surrondings.

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Hmmm, so if I acquired a world view which taught that murder is good. Then murder would be good? Each person decides for himself what is right and wrong?

jfer45 said:

So, by that logic I am evil because God has not changed me therefore every evil deed I do (with my evil heart of course) is the result of a God who has not changed one of his creations.

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God does create evil, scripture teaches that very clearly (Lamentations 3:38, Jeremiah 26:3, Jeremiah 36:3, Jeremiah 32:42, Amos 3:6, Jeremiah 11:11, Jeremiah 14:16, Jeremiah 18:11, Jeremiah 19:3, Jeremiah 19:15, Jeremiah 23:12, Jeremiah 26:13, Jeremiah 35:17, Jeremiah 36:31, Jeremiah 40:2, Jeremiah 42:10, Jeremiah 42:17, Jeremiah 44:2, Jeremiah 45:5, Jeremiah 49:37, Jeremiah 51:64, Ezekiel 6:10, Micah 2:3, 1 Kings 21:29, 2 Chronicles 34:24, 2 Chronicles 34:28, 1 Samuel 16:23, 1 Samuel 18:10, 1 Samuel 19:9, 1 Samuel 16:15, 1 Samuel 16:14, Micah 1:12, 2 Samuel 12:11-12, Judges 9:23, 1 Kings 14:10, 2 Kings 21:12, Isaiah 31:2, Proverbs 16:4...I could keep going for a LONG time...). The potter has power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour. But you are still responsible. Who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Read Romans 9:11-24.

jfer45 said:

Naw, I've broken a few.

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"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10.



Serving My King,
Zach Doty

BigChrisfilm said:

Ok, check off which ones you have and haven't kept k.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. KJV [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]- 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]KJV[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. KJV[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. KJV[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5. KJV[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - 12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6. KJV[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - 13 Thou shalt not kill.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7. KJV[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8. KJV[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - 15 Thou shalt not steal.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9. KJV[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10. KJV[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.[/FONT]

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I have not kept the Sabbath. I worked construction last Saturday. I have stolen. I put a bit of lemonade in my water at Taco Bell, and downloaded a few movies. I have coveted as well. I do not believe these have eternal implications though. The Jews didn't even have a notion of a heaven or hell back in the time of the Ten Commandments.