I have alot riding on Christ

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BigChrisfilm

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I have choosen to put all my faith in Christ. I don't think I need baptism. I don't think I need sacrements. I don't think I need works. I don't think I need traditions. I don't think I need Mary. I don't think I need the sabbath. I have alot riding on Christ. Does anyone think that when the day of Judgement comes, that Christ will not be enuff to get me into heaven?
 

jfer45

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I do not believe anyone will be able to answer your question. For me, I make no truth claim about an afterlife. I simply do not know.

My general belief is that Christianity is not about requirements and rewards. I do not believe one has to believe X, Y, Z about Jesus or God in order to recieve a pass to heaven.
 
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NarrowPathPilgrim

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BigChrisfilm said:
I have choosen to put all my faith in Christ. I don't think I need baptism. I don't think I need sacrements. I don't think I need works. I don't think I need traditions. I don't think I need Mary. I don't think I need the sabbath. I have alot riding on Christ. Does anyone think that when the day of Judgement comes, that Christ will not be enuff to get me into heaven?
Wrong question. The question should not be "Will Christ be enough?", the question you need to ask is "If I flaunt myself in the face of God’s commands, if I so boldly refuse to obey him, could it be possible that I really believe what his word says?"

Remember, fruit does not cause the tree, but fruit is always caused by a true tree.

Serving My King,
Zach Doty
 
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BigChrisfilm

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NarrowPathPilgrim said:
Wrong question. The question should not be "Will Christ be enough?", the question you need to ask is "If I flaunt myself in the face of God’s commands, if I so boldly refuse to obey him, could it be possible that I really believe what his word says?"

Remember, fruit does not cause the tree, but fruit is always caused by a true tree.

Serving My King,
Zach Doty

I agree, but I still believe that ONLY trust in Christ will bring salvation. My fruit does not saved me, rather, it is a cause and effect. The cause is salvation, the effect is fruit.
 
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NarrowPathPilgrim

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BigChrisfilm said:
I agree, but I still believe that ONLY trust in Christ will bring salvation. My fruit does not saved me, rather, it is a cause and effect. The cause is salvation, the effect is fruit.
This is all correct. Just make sure you have the full effect! Because if you don't, you might not have the cause!
You might want to read Romans 6 too!

Sincerely, Zach Doty
 
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jfer45

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BigChrisfilm said:
I agree, but I still believe that ONLY trust in Christ will bring salvation. My fruit does not saved me, rather, it is a cause and effect. The cause is salvation, the effect is fruit.
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

- Gospel According to Mathew, Chapter 25

Although, I do not know anything about heaven and/or hell, I can easily see that the gospel message, and likely Jesus' message involved promoting good deeds. In these three verses, Mathew's Gospel goes as far as to say that if one does not do certain things then he/she will be cursed.
 
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BigChrisfilm

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jfer45 said:
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

- Gospel According to Mathew, Chapter 25

Although, I do not know anything about heaven and/or hell, I can easily see that the gospel message, and likely Jesus' message involved promoting good deeds. In these three verses, Mathew's Gospel goes as far as to say that if one does not do certain things then he/she will be cursed.

So, is salvation of faith, or faith plus works?
 
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NarrowPathPilgrim

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jfer45 said:
Although, I do not know anything about heaven and/or hell, I can easily see that the gospel message, and likely Jesus' message involved promoting good deeds. In these three verses, Mathew's Gospel goes as far as to say that if one does not do certain things then he/she will be cursed.
Okay, let me clarify something. Sin (i.e. works) is what condemns the wicked. But Christ's righteousness is what saves the Godly.
If salvation was by works, nobody would ever be saved.
I won’t even begin to quote scripture on the subject, if I started, I’d end up posting the whole Bible. So I won’t even bother! Just go read the whole Bible, in context. And if you have ears to hear, and eyes to see, it will be as plain as the nose on your face on each and every page!

Sincerely, Zach Doty
 
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NarrowPathPilgrim

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BigChrisfilm said:
So, is salvation of faith, or faith plus works?
Romans 11:6 If by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
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BigChrisfilm

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NarrowPathPilgrim said:
Romans 11:6 If by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Indeed, now that is something I can rest my soul on.:thumbsup:
 
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BigChrisfilm said:
I have choosen to put all my faith in Christ. I don't think I need baptism. I don't think I need sacrements. I don't think I need works. I don't think I need traditions. I don't think I need Mary. I don't think I need the sabbath. I have alot riding on Christ. Does anyone think that when the day of Judgement comes, that Christ will not be enuff to get me into heaven?

Confusion comes from satan , peace comes from God.
 
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jfer45

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BigChrisfilm said:
So, is salvation of faith, or faith plus works?

Are you talking about salvation form hell? How am I supposed to know this? I have already said I make no truth claim about the afterlife (ie. heaven and hell).

It's like the Roulette wheel. I can't verify you have the right or wrong number until the wheel stops. Many Christians spend so much energy trying to find the correct number (because they believe there is only one).
 
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BigChrisfilm

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jfer45 said:
Are you talking about salvation form hell? How am I supposed to know this? I have already said I make no truth claim about the afterlife (ie. heaven and hell).

It's like the Roulette wheel. I can't verify you have the right or wrong number until the wheel stops. Many Christians spend so much energy trying to find the correct number (because they believe there is only one).

Friend you don't sound very sure of what you believe. There is only one correct number. It is Jesus Christ. Jesus said there is no other name under heaven which you can be saved. Let me ask you a question. Do you believe in heaven and hell? Because from what it looks like, you are not really sure of anything.
 
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jfer45

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NarrowPathPilgrim said:
Okay, let me clarify something. Sin (i.e. works) is what condemns the wicked. But Christ's righteousness is what saves the Godly.
If salvation was by works, nobody would ever be saved.
I won’t even begin to quote scripture on the subject, if I started, I’d end up posting the whole Bible. So I won’t even bother! Just go read the whole Bible, in context. And if you have ears to hear, and eyes to see, it will be as plain as the nose on your face on each and every page!

Sincerely, Zach Doty

Sir, with all due respect I have read the Bible. I do have ears and eyes as well. Now that we have that clear, it would probably be wise of me to tell you that we most likely do not share what the Bible is. To me, the Bible is a historical product written by people living long ago. The Bible is not from God, but pointing towards the Spirit, God the Sacred etc.

How is works sin per se?
 
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jfer45 said:
Sir, with all due respect I have read the Bible. I do not do have ears and eyes as well. Now that we have that clear, it would probably be wise of me to tell you that we most likely do not share what the Bible is. To me, the Bible is a historical product written by people living long ago. The Bible is not from God, but pointing towards the Spirit, God the Sacred etc.

How is works sin per se?

WOW, you droped the bomb on me. I was afraid of that. The bible is the word of God. Plain and simple friend. It is one of the requirments to being a christian.
 
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jfer45

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BigChrisfilm said:
Friend you don't sound very sure of what you believe. There is only one correct number. It is Jesus Christ. Jesus said there is no other name under heaven which you can be saved. Let me ask you a question. Do you believe in heaven and hell? Because from what it looks like, you are not really sure of anything.

Friend, I can only say it so many times and in so many ways (all in English of course). I make no truth claim about the afterlife (which includes heaven and hell or any other name referring to a place after this life).

If you are so sure that your way is the right, and that you are going to heaven in the afterlife, why do you feel the need to ask the question? I say I don't know and you say that I am wrong. Am I wrong for not knowing?
 
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jfer45

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BigChrisfilm said:
WOW, you droped the bomb on me. I was afraid of that. The bible is the word of God. Plain and simple friend. It is one of the requirments to being a christian.

So, we have yet one more requirement one must affirm in order to get into heaven. Jesus alone does not save if the Bible must be believed to be the word of God. One is still damned if one believes Jesus died for their sins, but God to not author the book of Genisis.
 
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BigChrisfilm

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jfer45 said:
Friend, I can only say it so many times and in so many ways (all in English of course). I make no truth claim about the afterlife (which includes heaven and hell or any other name referring to a place after this life).

If you are so sure that your way is the right, and that you are going to heaven in the afterlife, why do you feel the need to ask the question? I say I don't know and you say that I am wrong. Am I wrong for not knowing?
Of course your not wrong for not knowing. But you should WANT to know. I say I have the answer, do you want it? You should. What if you are wrong, and you die tonight? You need to get this straight with God before it is too late.
 
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jfer45 said:
So, we have yet one more requirement one must affirm in order to get into heaven. Jesus alone does not save if the Bible must be believed to be the word of God. One is still damned if one believes Jesus died for their sins, but God to not author the book of Genisis.

There is a process. You can't believe Jesus is the son of God, and believe on him without first believing in the word of God. Believing the bible doesn't save you, but you can't even know who Christ is unless you believe the bible.
 
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