Does God Forgive Abusersof The Mouth And The Fist!and If A Woman Is Abused By Her Husband Then Doesnt Dhe Have A Right To Get Away From Him!and If A Child Is Abused By His Or Her Parents Then Dont They Have A Right To Disobey?
what about abuse!
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talitha
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Absolutely! All of our sins were forgiven at the Cross. It is up to us to accept and appropriate the freedom that forgiveness affords us. It is also up to us to agree with His forgiveness, recognizing that in His eyes one sin is as bad as another, and we are also guilty.
Yes.
Possibly. If the parent is asking the child to sin, or putting him in danger by the request, the child would be wise to disobey. Otherwise, probably not. When the Bible says "Children obey your parents" - there is no qualifier.
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I agree with the last post. But I do believe and I have grown up in a household with violent abuse, that if a wife is being beaten, she must escape from it physically,it effects her and her children, as far as divorce it's hard to say, even though it sounds like it is only the right thing to do. That is not one of the boundaries for divorce in the bible, scary enough I think we might just have to physically get away from that person and pray for them alot. If they can't stand that we aren't around them and a restraining order and other legal actions take place. Then they can choose to finally divorce you.
Like the book of Corinthians 1 chp. 7 says about marriage , "if the unbeliever leaves let him go, you are not bound to someone in such circumstances." anyone who is beaten there wife, if a believer, sure is not following God's word about marriage saying that
"A Husband should love his wife as Christ loved the church".
So main thing though with these types of situations is to pray. As for the child abuse issue, well there is no boundaries for that. other then you should love and respect your parents no matter what.. But if it does cause you to sin, then you have the right to disobey.
Like the book of Corinthians 1 chp. 7 says about marriage , "if the unbeliever leaves let him go, you are not bound to someone in such circumstances." anyone who is beaten there wife, if a believer, sure is not following God's word about marriage saying that
"A Husband should love his wife as Christ loved the church".
So main thing though with these types of situations is to pray. As for the child abuse issue, well there is no boundaries for that. other then you should love and respect your parents no matter what.. But if it does cause you to sin, then you have the right to disobey.
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BrBob
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A little clarification as far as I'm concerned:
Actually there is as qualifier. The verse reads:
Eph. 6:1 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right."
Children are to obey their parents IN THE LORD. When parents are abusive they are not "in the Lord", they are acting out of self. We have to be careful here because if we're not we can get into conditional thinking and that's not what I'm after. The Holy Spirit leads children as well as, if not better than - adults. He (Holy Spirit) can and will let you know if there is a real problem. It's that unsettledness in the spirit, that niggling sense of 'that's just not right,' in the belly.
Parents are sometimes not "in the Lord" and it's a relatively harmless situation in which the children can learn to see their parents as human beings with faults and feelings. Other times parents are grossly not 'in the Lord,' in that they are putting their children in the way of harm, either physically, emotionally or spiritually. (Example: news item this week - a woman took her children along to steal. Not a good situation!) It is in this second situation where children who are of sufficient age to make good decisions need to question their parents if that is possible or, in extreme situations, remove themselves from the place of harm and find refuge. Please, don't look at what I'm saying and think that I advocate running away from home. That's not what I'm saying. If a 13 year-old boy is told to go buy drugs for his father he should NOT do it. He should go straight to his pastor, counselor, teacher, policeman or trusted (honorable)adult. That is removing himself from the situation but not running away. Running away is a negative action. Taking steps to remain safe and stop abuse or something similar is a positive action.
Now, about living in an abusive marriage. An abusive spouse has broken his/her covenant vows. The covenant is broken by the violence. Judge accordingly.
God Bless you!
Actually there is as qualifier. The verse reads:
Eph. 6:1 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right."
Children are to obey their parents IN THE LORD. When parents are abusive they are not "in the Lord", they are acting out of self. We have to be careful here because if we're not we can get into conditional thinking and that's not what I'm after. The Holy Spirit leads children as well as, if not better than - adults. He (Holy Spirit) can and will let you know if there is a real problem. It's that unsettledness in the spirit, that niggling sense of 'that's just not right,' in the belly.
Parents are sometimes not "in the Lord" and it's a relatively harmless situation in which the children can learn to see their parents as human beings with faults and feelings. Other times parents are grossly not 'in the Lord,' in that they are putting their children in the way of harm, either physically, emotionally or spiritually. (Example: news item this week - a woman took her children along to steal. Not a good situation!) It is in this second situation where children who are of sufficient age to make good decisions need to question their parents if that is possible or, in extreme situations, remove themselves from the place of harm and find refuge. Please, don't look at what I'm saying and think that I advocate running away from home. That's not what I'm saying. If a 13 year-old boy is told to go buy drugs for his father he should NOT do it. He should go straight to his pastor, counselor, teacher, policeman or trusted (honorable)adult. That is removing himself from the situation but not running away. Running away is a negative action. Taking steps to remain safe and stop abuse or something similar is a positive action.
Now, about living in an abusive marriage. An abusive spouse has broken his/her covenant vows. The covenant is broken by the violence. Judge accordingly.
God Bless you!
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talitha
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I just read your post, Br.Bob (by the way, that's my dad's name, and he's a pastor so he's often called Br.Bob, lol)..... and I agree pretty much with it.....
but there is something I'd like to address:
blessings
tal
but there is something I'd like to address:
I don't think this is what you were trying to say, but someone could take you to mean that if a child's parents are not believers, they do not have to obey them. That, of course, is not true.
blessings
tal
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Carri20
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Yes God forgives everything, if the person repents and sincerely asks for forgiveness.
If a woman is being severely abused I do believe she has a right to get away from him, but I don't believe God condones divorce in that situation.
If a woman is being severely abused I do believe she has a right to get away from him, but I don't believe God condones divorce in that situation.
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BrBob
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Thanks Tal, you are right.
By the way, I don't mind reminding someone of their dad for the most part.
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There is only one unforgivable sin-blasphemy of the Holy Spirit of the Lord (Matt.12:31).
Does a woman have the 'right' to leave her husband if he abuses her. Under the laws of the land, yes she has the right. Now what seems right and just to me, is that a woman or child should not have to endure abuse. Now there is a story perhaps we could glean something from for our understanding, the story of David and Abigail.
In this case Abigail's husband was going to do her and everyone in her household great physical harm, by not giving to the Lord's servant. In this case Abigail was the righteous character. She did not just up and leave her husband to his own demise (perhaps some of us would have, lol). She went and made it right with David and thus spared her household. God himself took action against her husband.
Now perhaps, to this story for us, we can glean that we need to make ourselves right with God, and leave the spouse and his problems to God.
So like another said, divorce may not be the way to go, because then you are basically doing the eye for an eye thing. You sinned against me, now I am going to sin against you...
But instead, leaving and making yourself right with God, without divorce. Because maintaining that living situation is not good for you.
One thing I personally know it abusers do not like strong people, they enjoy exploiting weaknesses. So by taking yourself out of that situation, and allowing God to make you strong, it takes away your vulnerability.
The Lord loves to give to us wisdom, knowledge, understanding, strength, all manor of things that make us strong people, stronger than the world and those who belong to it. The only difference between believers and unbelievers is believers do not use their power and strength given to them by God against their enemies, they reserve judgment for God. (anyways, God is our defender).
Children obey out of love and trust. When I was a child I believed my mom knew everything. I didnt worry about being provided for because I knew through my mom my life would be provided for. And I also knew she would protect me.
I think disobedience comes when we see our parents as human, instead of our everything. Just like with God, some people may percieve him as less than their everything, so the disobey him.
Parents were placed in a position over their children like God is over his children. I believe the Lord gave us a tangible understanding of him through our parents.
Now if a parent is going to abuse his or her authority given to him by God, than the child must go to a higher authority-God. What may seem like disobedience in this case may be justifyable acts. For example: Daniel and the lions den, Daniel disobeyed the king. Daniel had to appeal to a higher authority than the king, he needed God to be his judge and not man. And then in this case God defended the actions of Daniel showing truth and righteousness through Daniel. That Daniel was justified in his actions, and the king was not. (Remembering the story you will see that there was selfish motivations behind what was done to Daniel by the king).
I remember watching a show by Walt Disney about the very first seeing eye dog. Now these dogs were taught to willfully disobey their owners when it would be justified (save the life of the owner). It may have seemed like disobedience until someone comes along and tells the owner what he was just saved from.
Also these dogs were taught to know the better path to follow. What would be the best path for the owner, the safest route.
Can you think of a time when a child should disobey their parents? What if you tell your child not to leave the house until you get home. And dont open the door to anyone or answer the phone. You know this is for their safety. Well what if someone breaks in and puts them in harms way? Shouldnt they be allowed to break your rules in order to live? And wouldnt you as a parent want them too?
Children are not like adults, they are not complex. They only think in truths. I remember being told to stay at my aunts house to help her after surgery. But my uncle had other plans for me. I ran away, across a four lane highway to my great aunts house to be safe, because the truth was I knew I would be safe there. I was and later my mom picked me up.
You know the other weird thing about abused kids? They still love their parents. I wish I knew why. Perhaps it is because they gave us life (although as children we dont really see it or understand that concept). Part of some law ingrained in us by God.
well sorry I have rambled on. I will leave it at that for now.
Does a woman have the 'right' to leave her husband if he abuses her. Under the laws of the land, yes she has the right. Now what seems right and just to me, is that a woman or child should not have to endure abuse. Now there is a story perhaps we could glean something from for our understanding, the story of David and Abigail.
In this case Abigail's husband was going to do her and everyone in her household great physical harm, by not giving to the Lord's servant. In this case Abigail was the righteous character. She did not just up and leave her husband to his own demise (perhaps some of us would have, lol). She went and made it right with David and thus spared her household. God himself took action against her husband.
Now perhaps, to this story for us, we can glean that we need to make ourselves right with God, and leave the spouse and his problems to God.
So like another said, divorce may not be the way to go, because then you are basically doing the eye for an eye thing. You sinned against me, now I am going to sin against you...
But instead, leaving and making yourself right with God, without divorce. Because maintaining that living situation is not good for you.
One thing I personally know it abusers do not like strong people, they enjoy exploiting weaknesses. So by taking yourself out of that situation, and allowing God to make you strong, it takes away your vulnerability.
The Lord loves to give to us wisdom, knowledge, understanding, strength, all manor of things that make us strong people, stronger than the world and those who belong to it. The only difference between believers and unbelievers is believers do not use their power and strength given to them by God against their enemies, they reserve judgment for God. (anyways, God is our defender).
Children obey out of love and trust. When I was a child I believed my mom knew everything. I didnt worry about being provided for because I knew through my mom my life would be provided for. And I also knew she would protect me.
I think disobedience comes when we see our parents as human, instead of our everything. Just like with God, some people may percieve him as less than their everything, so the disobey him.
Parents were placed in a position over their children like God is over his children. I believe the Lord gave us a tangible understanding of him through our parents.
Now if a parent is going to abuse his or her authority given to him by God, than the child must go to a higher authority-God. What may seem like disobedience in this case may be justifyable acts. For example: Daniel and the lions den, Daniel disobeyed the king. Daniel had to appeal to a higher authority than the king, he needed God to be his judge and not man. And then in this case God defended the actions of Daniel showing truth and righteousness through Daniel. That Daniel was justified in his actions, and the king was not. (Remembering the story you will see that there was selfish motivations behind what was done to Daniel by the king).
I remember watching a show by Walt Disney about the very first seeing eye dog. Now these dogs were taught to willfully disobey their owners when it would be justified (save the life of the owner). It may have seemed like disobedience until someone comes along and tells the owner what he was just saved from.
Also these dogs were taught to know the better path to follow. What would be the best path for the owner, the safest route.
Can you think of a time when a child should disobey their parents? What if you tell your child not to leave the house until you get home. And dont open the door to anyone or answer the phone. You know this is for their safety. Well what if someone breaks in and puts them in harms way? Shouldnt they be allowed to break your rules in order to live? And wouldnt you as a parent want them too?
Children are not like adults, they are not complex. They only think in truths. I remember being told to stay at my aunts house to help her after surgery. But my uncle had other plans for me. I ran away, across a four lane highway to my great aunts house to be safe, because the truth was I knew I would be safe there. I was and later my mom picked me up.
You know the other weird thing about abused kids? They still love their parents. I wish I knew why. Perhaps it is because they gave us life (although as children we dont really see it or understand that concept). Part of some law ingrained in us by God.
well sorry I have rambled on. I will leave it at that for now.
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talitha said:
I must disagree. There is a qualifier. Ephesians 6:1
"Children obey your parents in the Lord." The "in the Lord" part is the qualifier. I always told my children the whole verse and told them that if I ask them to do something that is a violation of God's rules, they must tell me what I have asked and why they will not do it.
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Darlin', you said there is no qualifier. God gave us a qualifier. You proposed possible exceptions based on your wisdom and logic, not on God's word. If the difference is unimportant to you, we need to talk.
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Warrior4ChristAL
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BrBob said:
I believe if a child is encouraged to tell about incest or other forms of sexual abuse, they need to understand that it is improper for a parent to demand obedience with such acts of deviants. However, the reality is that children often protect their abusers and even lie about the abuse so their parent doesn't get in trouble. There is a right way to encourage a child to obey and a wrong way that says everything their parent asks them they must obey because they are a child.
Christians need to be mindful that some children's behavior will be the first sign of abuse. Sunday School teacher, pastors and youth leaders need to be watchful with children in their congregation.
You would be surprised at how many "Christian" abusers there are out there sitting in church every Sunday.
My grandfather was one of those. Until he was confronted with the truth about how he was abusing his children, nieces and nephews, he appeared to be a "good ol' Christian man".
Children are to honor their parents. Obedience depends on righteousness or unrighteousness.
You are right to say that no one should be made to obey their parents if it involves crime or sexual activity.
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Excellent reply. Abuse is also against the law. Collect evidence of the abuse and have a plan of action if you choose to report it to the law enforcement agencies. A person can be held liable for any child abuse not reported within that state.estellaluvsgod said:
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mercy0915 said:
YES! A woman (or a man) not only has the right to get away from her abuser but a duty especially if there are children in the home!
I don't think it's so much that a child has the right to disobey but they get to a point that the feel that "it don't matter if I do what I'm told because I'll still get abused so why bother!" they rebel.
I know from experience, I lived in an abusive home for to many years, my son was abused as well my other children, tho they were not physicaly abused, they were verbably abused as well as a witness to the abuse.
As Far as God forgiving those abusers, I'm sure he will if they ask to be forgiven, does he understand why victims of abuse has a hard time forgiving? I think so!
If you are in an abusive relationship, get out and get help! If you know someone in a abusive relationship report it and get them help!
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