questions about revelation

Well, Revelations is a really hard book to understand, even if its dumbed down. Every person has different views, even though we're all reading the same book. I can't personally answer any of these questions because I'm also having trouble with Revelations, so I can't answer anything truthfully. I hope you find what your looking for.

Originally posted by gwyyn
I have a question(s) about the thousand year reign!!

Who will be the ones who live on the Earth with Jesus during the reign??

Will it be all of us, or just those who are saved during the tribulation?

The reason I ask is because I have read in revelation and the corresponding verse in Isiah. And what I take from it that people will still sin during this time. Am I right in this or am I missing something?


I also get that physical death will end until after the final judgement (opening of the book of life). Am I missing something here too?

can someone please help me here in understanding this??

please

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During the millennial reign of Christ, everyone will be on earth with Jesus, except the unredeemed dead. I'm not completely sure if there will be people sinning, since Jesus will be reigning with a rod of iron. But for sure, when satan is loosed again for a short period, there will still be sin. After the judgment and satan and the unredeemed dead will be cast into the lake of fire, there will be no more sin; and physical and spiritual death will be no more. Revelation 21 is referring to after the judgment and the 1000 year reign of Christ.
I hope this helps.

At the end of the tribulation when CHRIST returns there will be two groups of people on the earth. The saved tribulation saints, and the lost who have rejected CHRIST and have chosen to follow the anti-christ and his war on GOD and HIS saints. All the lost will be gathered and thrown in the great winepress of the wrath of GOD. ( Rev. 14: 14-20), compared to ( Rev. 19: 11-21). I believe this also parallels the one taken and one left verses of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Read and compare ALL the references , and I believe you will see the same event. When CHRIST returns HE will kill all who are not saved. There will be no lost people entering the 1000 year reign. The saved will re-populate the earth during the 1000 years. The people that are born after CHRIST returns will have to do what all people through out history have had to do. Make a choice to accept CHRIST as their savior. The only difference is the time frame. What I mean by that is, before MESSIAH came and died for the sins of the world, the old testament saints believed that the MESSIAH was coming to take sin away. This is what saved them. We who are alive now, believe that HE did come and die for us, was raised from the dead, and believe HE is coming back. Those in the future kingdom, will have to believe all of the same, and accept CHRIST as we have. They will be told the history of what has happened.

As you can see the kingdom will not be the perfect place for many, they will have to be good , no overt sin will be tolerated. You will not be able to get away with any sin. This is what is mean by a rod of iron. People will probably be judged by the laws of the old testament. The saved will love the kingdom. There will be no murder, no rape, stealing, drugs, abortion, adultery . As soon as you go to overtly sin against another, you will instantly come under judgment by the system CHRIST sets up. The lost how ever will hate this system. And after a 1000 years of forced goodness, their wicked hearts will get there chance. Satan is loosed and deceives these lost, they meet there doom, and the lake is hot. Peace, but not yet.

Maranatha, I do and I don't agree with you. I agree that there will be no wicked left when Jesus arrives as He will destroy them.

In John 14: Jesus says He is going to His Fathers house where there are many mansion. He also says He is GOING to prepare a place for us. This tells me that the righteous will after meeting the Lord in the air go to heaven with Him. For a thousand years they will remain with Him. Rev. 20:4...Now among the people mentioned in that text were resurrected righteous people and those that were alive when He came.

verse 5 says the rest of the dead didn't live til the 1000 years were up. All those that were dead before He comes and those that die when He comes will remain dead for a thousand years.

Rev. 21 says that the city comes down from heaven. The saved are in this City as Jesus already said back in John 14 that He was going to prepare a place for us in heaven.

...there will be no wicked left...

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I believe the ones "left" at the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:40) will be survivors of the heathen nations that came against Jerusalem, who will be forced to worship Jesus in the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-18), and whom we will rule "with a rod of iron" during that time (Revelation 2:26-29, 5:9-10, 20:4). Would Jesus need to force the righteous to come up to Jerusalem to worship him? Would we need to rule over the righteous with a rod of iron?

...the righteous will after meeting the Lord in the air go to heaven with Him...

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Note that no verse says the rapture takes us any higher than the clouds. Jesus said "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" (John 14:3). Note that he says we will be where he is after he comes again. He says nothing about his making a U-turn back into heaven. And indeed we will be where he is after he comes again: on the earth during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29).

I haven't read anything in the Bible that says He will be here and us in the Holy City with the wicked outside raising havoc all about. The Idea of the redemption of the righteous is the peace that follows, so I sill have to believe we are not here but taken to heaven for the thousand years.

Also if all the wicked are killed at His arrival I can't imagine Jesus making us live a thousand years till they are wakened for their eternal punishment. It just all makes no sense to me.

Nope, we go up and on to heaven. we come back after the 1000 yrs. there is no one left behind. To believe that is to deceive ones self. and is also the easy way out of getting ones life in right order. Believing one has another chance is a way to make believe you have more chances than we really do.

The struggle between good and evil will be just that. It will not be good, evil and the middle of the road ones. By the time Jesus returns everyone will have chosen sides. Sadly the majority will take the wrong side.

...we are not here but taken to heaven for the thousand years...

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I believe it says we are here for the thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29).

...all the wicked are killed at His arrival...

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What verse are you thinking of here?

...there is no one left...

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Who then are the ones "left" in Matthew 24:40, Zechariah 14:16?

Hi Postrib,

I am sorry that it has taken me so long to get back to you.  I just have very little time on here and it is a hit and miss thing when I do get here as I never have a lot of time.  

About the wicked being killed at CHrist's return.   ...

 

Luke 17:26,30...And as it was in the days of No'-e, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that No'-e entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.                                                                     Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;  But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.  Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed

when Jesus comes the same thing will befall the wicked as did those in Noah's time and Sodom.They will be destroyed.  First off it will come as a surprise Just as in Noah's and Lot's days.   The saved will be taken up with Christ, just like Noah and Lot's family were spared the fate of the wicked so will the righteous.   Second they will face death like the wicked at that time.  Not just some of them but all of them.  No one but noah's family was spared.......No one but lot and his girls were spared out of Sodom.    No one but the righteous will be spared when Jesus returns.  

Jeremiah 25:31,33.......A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the Lord hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh;  He will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord...  And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth:  they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried;  they shall be dung upon the ground.   ......   Now this is not the final judgment.   these will be the wicked after Jesus Returns.   There will be no one to bury them because the righteous will be in heaven.   They will be like dung because their bodies will lay there and rot.  

Jesus' second coming will be like lightning flashing from one horizon to the other.  (see Matt. 24:27)...........This brightness will kill the wicked.....2 Thess. 1:7,8   And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thess. 2:8  And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with th espirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.  

I am sure there can be found other Scripture verifying this.    This was all I could find and it toook a while to do that.  

God bless.......Sandi

We will rule the earth with a rod of iron after the 1000 years.   A rod of iron don't necessarily denote a violent nature.   first off if the wicked are destroyed at the 2nd coming of Christ then there will be no one that will be here to keep under control.   And in a sense the nations will be reduced to small shivers as we will one day posess the earth and will ea. have our share of the land.   It will be ours to rule over just as Adam was supposed to do in the beginning.   Instead of ruling like a rod of iron, he succumed to sin.  He allowed sin to enter in a clean world.

 

Rev.20:4 does not tell you where the scene is taking place.  Only thing we know from that verse is that they are with Jesus.  verse 5 says that they are part of the first resurrection.  This also includes the living righteous.  It also says the rest of the dead won't be alive till the end of the thousand years.   (these are all the dead wicked including those that died at Jesus return.  We will not be living on earth with decaying bodies that take a long time to completely decompose.    verse 6 says the righteous (here only the first resurrection is mentioned)shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.   We will be in heaven for those thousand years.  

1 Thess. 4:16,17....When Jesus comes the dead in Christ will be raised first and those that are alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds.....we will be caught up in the clouds for a reason.  Not to be brought back down to walk over the dead bodies laying around and among the rubble that will be left.  

John 14:1-3    says Jesus is going to His father where a place will be prepared for us.   It also says that in His Father's house are many mansions.   What are those mansions for?  Why did He bother to mention them if they weren't going to be prepared for us?

Rev.19:1....I heard a great of much people in heaven....These are people.   It doesn't say angels, but people.   John saw a vision of Gods people living in heaven.  

Col. 1:5 ...  For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven....

1 Pet.1:4...  To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you

Hev. 10:34....Knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance

Heb.11:16....But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly:  wherefore God  is not ashamed to be called their God:  for He hath prepared for them a city.......Rev.21:2,10..I Johm saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven...And shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God...

According to these verses the Holy city comes to earth from heaven.

Jude 14...Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints......acording to this the Lord and His saints are coming from somewhere.   Could that be heaven?

If you combine all of these scripture they add up to one thing.   We are going to meet Jesus in the air.....He will be taking us to heaven where he has prepared a place for us in his father's house.  When the Holy City comes to earth after the thousand years the saints will be with Him........

 

...they will face death like the wicked at that time. Not just some of them but all of them...

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Note that in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, the parallel point between the 2nd coming on the one hand and Noah's flood and Sodom's destruction on the other, can't be the destruction of all the wicked, but rather their obliviousness to the disaster that was about to come upon them, for unlike the flood, which "took them ALL away" (Matthew 24:39), at the 2nd coming not all will be taken away, but "one shall be taken, and the other left" (Matthew 24:40). The ones "left" at the 2nd coming will be survivors of the heathen nations that came against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16), who will be forced to worship Jesus in the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-18), and whom we will rule "with a rod of iron" during that time (Revelation 2:26-29, 5:9-10, 20:4).

...No one but the righteous will be spared when Jesus returns...

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Would Jesus need to force the righteous to come up to Jerusalem to worship him? (Zechariah 14:16-18) Would we need to rule over the righteous with a rod of iron? (Revelation 2:26-29)

...We will be in heaven...

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Note that no verse says the rapture takes us any higher than the clouds.

...we will be caught up in the clouds...

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I believe we will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air on his way down to set his feet on the earth.

Because 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 shows Jesus "coming," but doesn't show him landing on the earth, some believe it refers to a part-way coming of Jesus whereby he comes down only as far as the clouds and then returns to heaven. But note that Matthew 24:29-31 doesn't show Jesus landing on the earth either. Do some then believe that Matthew 24:29-31 is also not the 2nd coming?

Note that 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 doesn't show Jesus returning to heaven. Acts 1:11 says Jesus will "come" just as he left: he won't come only as far as the clouds and then return to heaven again, just as he didn't leave only as far as the clouds and then return to earth again. He went from the Mount of Olives to the clouds to heaven, he will come from heaven to the clouds to the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4). There's no 3rd coming of Jesus.

...John 14:1-3...

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Note that Jesus simply said "I will come again, and receive you unto myself" (John 14:3). He didn't say he would take us into heaven.

Jesus said "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" (John 14:3). Note that he says we will be where he is after he comes again. He doesn't say he will turn around and go back into heaven. And indeed we will be where he is after he comes again: on the earth during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29).

I believe Jesus said "In my Father's house are many mansions... I go to prepare a place for you," to show why he was going, not why he was coming back, and to show that he still has great and eternal plans for us in New Jerusalem, where the Father will dwell with us after the millennium: "I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God" (Revelation 21:2-3).

...John saw a vision of Gods people living in heaven...

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In Revelation 19:14, "heaven" is the 1st heaven, the sky, where Jesus is revealed to the nations, as in Matthew 24:30's "heaven."

I believe the purpose of the rapture is to gather the resurrected dead and the transformed living (1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) all together in the sky with Jesus so that we can be judged (Psalms 50:4-5, Mark 13:27) and married (Revelation 19:7) in the clouds, before Armageddon.

gwyyn; I think this article I found might help answer a few questions, and maybe give you some other sections of scripture for continued study.
www.khouse.org/articles/prophetic/20020201-395.html

As a quick side note;

I think the key to understanding the millennium temple and why there is one is in who is on the earth during the millennium. There will be both the ressurected/raptured saints with our eternal bodies and those believers who survived the tribulation and are still in mortal bodies. The second group will repopulate the Earth and need to be ceremonially cleansed before coming before the LORD. Thus the need for there to be a temple.

actually prior to Jesus' return we have been judged. We are being judged right now. The righteous will receive their reward at that time which will be eternal life with Jesus. The wicked do not receive their reward till the end of the 1,000 yrs.

yes I agree with you that it is not the heavenly heaven in Rev. 14......That is because it is a symbolic prophecy concerning the return of Jesus.

Hello Postrib and all...........

about post 11......Actually the verses reflecting back on the destruction in Noah's time and Sodom involve more than just the surprize.  In Noah's time and Lots time they to were all surprised as to the events that unfolded around them.      The second coming will be a surprise for the majority.   It is also going to include their destruction.   That is why In Rev. it says: "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every fre man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;    And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?(verses15-17)

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.  And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Saying, Hurt not the earth neither the sea, nor the tress, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.  Rev. 7:1-3.

Those that are sealed with the seal of God will be left alive.  The question the wicked ask in chap. 6 verse 17 is who shall be able to stand?  then chapt 7:1-3 gives the answer to that question. 

The wicked know that once Jesus comes they are doomed.   Put the verses above with Jeremiah 25:31,33 and 2 thes. 1:7,8.   It is obvious what they fear in Rev.   Their destruction.    They fear it not because of death itself, but the combination of there 1,000 yrs of death they will not wake to everlasting life, but everlasting destruction.    Jeremiah tells their bodies will be from one end of the earth to the other.  That is a lot of dead bodies.