My discoveries on the papacy =)

Hoonbaba · Jul 9, 2002

Hi guys,

I just listened to a tape by Scott Hahn dealing with the papacy. And I just wanted to share what I've come across.

In Matt 16:18-19, Jesus says:

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

There's a few things to note here:

1) Peter in Greek is 'petros'. HOWEVER, rock in Greek is 'petra'. Protestants look at that and say that there's a discrepency, so they say that when Jesus said 'on this rock' it's referring not to Peter, but to someone else.

So why the difference? Simple. Petros is a masculine noun, whereas petra is a feminine noun. Why is this important?

Here's why: Protesteants go on to say that 'petros' is basically like a small pebble, like a throwing stone, something insignificant. However, the 'petra' feminine counterpart is defined as a MASSIVE rock. This is where they say the 'rock' is referring to Jesus, not Peter.

So why the Greek feminine and masculine emphasis on rock and peter? Simple: It's highly unlikely that the translator would allow Peter to have a 'feminine' name. I guess it's like the distinction between Joseph and Josephine!! LOL =) Thus Peter in Greek is Petros, not Petra.

Also, in Aramaic, the language Jesus and Peter probably spoke, there is no masculine and feminine noun for rock. In Aramaic, 'rock' is 'rock' (if you get my drift!) =)

So the fact is, the use of 'rock' and 'Peter' are referring to one and the same thing.

2) Jesus is talk'n to Peter, and in every instance of 'you' it's obvious that Jesus is talking to Peter. I guess this is self-evident =)

Also....

I had no idea that Matt 16:19 is almost a quotation of Isaiah 22:22!

Hahn goes on to explain that in Isaiah 22 Sheba was prime minister, but was being replaced by Eliakim. So Eliakim was given authority (Is 22:21), and as a result he was given the 'key of the house of david' by King Hezekiah, one of the sons of David. In fact, Isaiah 22:21 even goes on to say that Eliakim would be called a 'father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem'!

Likewise, In Matt 16:18-19, Jesus, the Son of David, entrusts Peter with the keys of the Kingdom of God! No wonder the Pope is the Holy Father!! Because the Kingdom of God is clearly foreshadowed with David's kingdom =)

This is neat stuff!!

God bless!

-Jason

pax · Jul 9, 2002

Originally posted by Hoonbaba
This is neat stuff!!

It only gets better

Chris†opher Paul · Jul 9, 2002

Great post, absolutely awesome. Thanks.

Hoonbaba · Jul 9, 2002

Hi guys,

A good friend of mine just mentioned all this to me:

Matt 16:19 says that the keys were given to Peter. HOWEVER, Protestants will continue to say that 'rock' is Jesus. And their defense is based on Rev 1:18 and Rev 3:7-8, which both state that Jesus hold the keys and also talks about the shutting and opening.

But if you think carefully, you'll notice something. This doesn't go against the Catholic teaching. It seems to be in agreement:

Here's what I mean: Peter's authority only comes from Christ who retains the keys and Christ has SHARED those keys with Peter.

God bless!

-Jason

Hoonbaba · Jul 9, 2002

Originally posted by pax

It only gets better

Amen!!! LOL!

-Jason

niwde · Jul 12, 2002

u can tell protestants that if the little pebbles or useless or insignificant tell they about the story about the rejected stones
whis is the difference of pebbles and rocks,it contain the same compound,but the name is rougher then the other
no difference
pebbles r cute and smooth thus giving the impression of gentle and caring like the holy father himself
rocks r rough,ugly and tough thus giving the impression of cutting ur feet,like The Rock who lay the SMACKETH DOWN

2002 Christian · Jul 12, 2002

"I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The word Peter signifies a stone,--a rolling stone. Peter was not the rock upon which the church was founded. The gates of hell did prevail against him when he denied his Lord with cursing and swearing. The church was built upon One against whom the gates of hell could not prevail.

Centuries before the Saviour's advent Moses had pointed to the Rock of Israel's salvation. The psalmist had sung of "the Rock of my strength." Isaiah had written, "Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation." Deut. 32:4; Ps. 62:7; Isa. 28:16. Peter himself, writing by inspiration, applies this prophecy to Jesus. He says, "If ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious: unto whom coming, a living stone, rejected indeed of men, but with God elect, precious, ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house." 1 Peter 2:3-5, R. V.

"Other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." 1 Cor. 3:11. "Upon this rock," said Jesus, "I will build My church." In the presence of God, and all the heavenly intelligences, in the presence of the unseen army of hell, Christ founded His church upon the living Rock. That Rock is Himself,--His own body, for us broken and bruised. Against the church built upon this foundation, the gates of hell shall not prevail.

Chris†opher Paul · Jul 12, 2002

Did you read the original post?

KC Catholic · Jul 12, 2002

Originally posted by 2002 Christian
"I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The word Peter signifies a stone,--a rolling stone. Peter was not the rock upon which the church was founded. The gates of hell did prevail against him when he denied his Lord with cursing and swearing. The church was built upon One against whom the gates of hell could not prevail.

Centuries before the Saviour's advent Moses had pointed to the Rock of Israel's salvation. The psalmist had sung of "the Rock of my strength." Isaiah had written, "Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation." Deut. 32:4; Ps. 62:7; Isa. 28:16. Peter himself, writing by inspiration, applies this prophecy to Jesus. He says, "If ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious: unto whom coming, a living stone, rejected indeed of men, but with God elect, precious, ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house." 1 Peter 2:3-5, R. V.

"Other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." 1 Cor. 3:11. "Upon this rock," said Jesus, "I will build My church." In the presence of God, and all the heavenly intelligences, in the presence of the unseen army of hell, Christ founded His church upon the living Rock. That Rock is Himself,--His own body, for us broken and bruised. Against the church built upon this foundation, the gates of hell shall not prevail.

 

2002 Christian...you just came off of suspension. This forum is NOT for debating Catholic doctorine. Please respect the rules or be prepared for another vacation.

Kotton · Jul 12, 2002

Originally posted by s0uljah
Did you read the original post?

Seems doubtful. It was all explained right here:

Here's why: Protesteants go on to say that 'petros' is basically like a small pebble, like a throwing stone, something insignificant. However, the 'petra' feminine counterpart is defined as a MASSIVE rock. This is where they say the 'rock' is referring to Jesus, not Peter.

So why the Greek feminine and masculine emphasis on rock and peter? Simple: It's highly unlikely that the translator would allow Peter to have a 'feminine' name. I guess it's like the distinction between Joseph and Josephine!! LOL =) Thus Peter in Greek is Petros, not Petra.

Kotton

Wolseley · Jul 12, 2002

Wols walks through, twirling a nightstick in one hand.

Pauses to observe posts.......

....makes mental note to keep a sharp eye on things and take swift and appropriate action if need be.....

.......walks out.

nyj · Jul 12, 2002

Originally posted by 2002 Christian
The word Peter signifies a stone,--a rolling stone.

Huh? Say what? This is the most far-fetched thing I've heard yet about this subject.

2002 Christian · Jul 12, 2002

"KC Catholic", are you telling NON-Catholics to shut up on this thread or submit to Catholic doctrine by default?

jukesk9 · Jul 12, 2002

Not very nice 2002. You've been warned. No more name calling.

2002 Christian · Jul 12, 2002

"This forum is NOT for debating Catholic doctorine." This is precisely what Hoonbaba did in the first post.

KC Catholic · Jul 12, 2002

2002 ...let's remember the rules:
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You are pushing the limits quickly. I suggest you go back and edit the last few posts.

2002 Christian · Jul 12, 2002

"Popish Persons" is used in the Epistle Dedicatory to the Authorized King James Version. See it here: http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/kjvpref.htm

Does that offend?

KC Catholic · Jul 12, 2002

The very presence of you in this particular forum offends me. I suggest you find another forum more suited to your particular beliefs.

2002 Christian · Jul 12, 2002

KC, should you be banned for this comment?
"Please respect the rules or be prepared for another vacation."

It seems to be a violation of the rules #1, 2, and 4.

jukesk9 · Jul 12, 2002

It does me. You should have called him KC Catholic. Plus, Jesus-is-Lord is a vehement, anti-Catholic website. I would hardly call it a Christian web site as it is missing the message of love Christ so dearly preached.

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