Is Allah the same God as The Christian God?

eldermike · Jul 12, 2002

Sauron,

Elohim is a Hebrew term for "deity" It's not a name. The word "god" is not a name.
In Ex. Moses asked God a question.

EX 3:13 Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, `The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, `What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"

EX 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: `I AM has sent me to you.' "

The answer to this question is clear. This is the first use of a personal name and the answer was Yehweh. Moses needed this answer because many gods were worshiped there were many that could be called "El" something, He needed a name, and He got it.

So; to a simple mind like mine, the only connection that can be made as proof that Allah is the same God is to connect Allah to Yahweh. I can't find it or likewise any evidence that anyone has found it. If it exists it should be easy to produce.

Blessings

eldermike · Jul 12, 2002

Aunti_Belle_Um

You said:

<Where does the name "Jesus" come from?? I read somewhere it came from "Zeus", but I decided not to believe that.>

I answered that in my eariler post. #9

God= deity (God has a name) Yahweh OT; Yeshsua, NT ( both Hebrew The first is strict name, the second means God saves) Jesus = Greek for Yahshua

Conclusion: the name of God is carried from the time of Moses until today, if you are Greek, it's Jesus; Hebrew, it's Yesheua or Yahweh if you are a non-beleiver.

Blessings

Sauron · Jul 12, 2002

Originally posted by eldermike
Sauron,

Elohim is a Hebrew term for "deity" It's not a name. The word "god" is not a name.

No.  Elohim is actually a plural form of the word for deity, and in that form in refers specifically to the god of Israel. 

Moreover, even in the singular form, it still refers to the Hebrew god (with context).  That is why there are so many compound names in Hebrew that have "El" as a component:

Daniel
Zerubbael
Samuel
Ezekiel
etc.

These are compound names that are referencing "God".  And to the Hebrew listener, there was no question in their minds which god was being referenced - the name Daniel, "God is my judge" was not referring to just *any* god.

Some other examples:

GEN 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

GEN 48:9 And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.

EXO 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.

JOB 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Area you saying that in these four cases (and in hundreds more), that the name "God" isn't really a proper name, referring to a specific deity?

The problem here is that the word being used (Elohim) in these cases *is* being used as a name.  We have the same confusion in English; you have to listen very closely to the context of a conversation to know whether the person means "God" or "god".

 

Sauron · Jul 12, 2002

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
Not to open up another can of worms, but.....

Where does the name "Jesus" come from?? I read somewhere it came from "Zeus", but I decided not to believe that.

 

No.  Zeus is from Greek, which is one of the Indo-European family of languages.  It's a relative of the word "theos", the root of words such as "theology".  Zeus is also related to the Latin "Deus".  They all are related to a general Indo-European sky god with a name similar to Tiwaz, or Tiw.

Yeshua (and all its various spellings) comes from the Semitic language family.  The two branches of human languages are not related at all, except possibly *very* distantly.

eldermike · Jul 12, 2002

Sauron,

This confuses me. You said: <No. Elohim is actually a plural form of the word for deity, and in that form in refers specifically to the god of Israel.

Moreover, even in the singular form, it still refers to the Hebrew god (with context). That is why there are so many compound names in Hebrew that have "El" as a component:>

How do you connect this to the God of Isrial? I connected it when I posted the answer to Moses's question. Before that it's deity. period.

The connection is to the "proper name" Plural or singular, your word means deity. That can be any deity. Just the same for the word god. "Thou shall have no other gods before me" Why was this necessary to say?

So, I will listen to you but not agree that I am wrong.

Blessings

eldermike · Jul 12, 2002

Actually, now that you bring it up, the deity in Gen is plural. It's the Trinity. But, the bible dosn't begin by saying "The God of Israel created". It's created by a supernatural God in the form of three persons and yes it's plural. The personal name of God was not necessary here but it was given because it was necessary under the law. It is also necessary today because of a personal relationship with God (Jesus). We worship the God of creation by knowing who that in fact is. It's a required belief. Jesus is God. But I can't say God is God. Make sense?
The personal name of the God of creation is important!
Blessings

Sauron · Jul 12, 2002

Originally posted by eldermike
Sauron,

This confuses me. You said: <NO. word form 
Moreover, even in the singular form, it still refers to the Hebrew god (with context). That is why there are so many compound names in Hebrew that have "El" as a component:>

How do you connect this to the God of Isrial?

By the verses in question, and by the way that the word "El" and "Elohim" are used by the Hebrews.  They did the same thing in Hebrew, that we have done in English.  They took the word for "god", which used to refer to any old deity, but now it specifically refers to the god of the Hebrews.

I connected it when I posted the answer to Moses's question. Before that it's deity. period.

Click to expand...

Not true. I used several examples of quotations in Genesis, before the time of Moses, when the word God (either Elohim, or El, in Hebrew) was used as a proper noun, to refer specifically to the god of the Hebrews.

If you were correct, then the Hebrews would have never referred to their god as God, before the incident with Moses.

The connection is to the "proper name" Plural or singular, your word means deity. That can be any deity.

Click to expand...

No.  If that were the case, then why would any Hebrew mother name her child Samuel, Daniel, etc. if the word "El" did not refer specifically to the Hebrew god?

Your claims do not square up with the evidence of Hebrew culture, nor with the usage of the word "God" in the Old Testament.  You should also check out StillSmallVoice's post, about how the Jews acknowledge that El is one of the names of God.

"Thou shall have no other gods before me" Why was this necessary to say?

Click to expand...

Because at the time, there were other gods in Israel.  That does not change the fact that the Hebrews referred to their own god by calling him "God".  The Hebrew word Elohim, or El, is a proper noun.  It's word 0430 and 0433 in the Strong's concordance.  In both cases, it is both a proper noun for God, as well as a common noun for 'god'.  The same confusion that we have in English when someone says "god/God" existed in Hebrew as well. 

0430 'elohiym {el-o-heem'} <IMG src="http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/hs355.gif" align=absMiddle><IMG src="http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/hs351.gif" align=absMiddle><IMG src="http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/hs344.gif" align=absMiddle><IMG src="http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/hs354.gif" align=absMiddle><IMG src="http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/hs340.gif" align=absMiddle>

plural of 0433; TWOT - 93c; n m p

AV - God 2346, god 244, judge 5, GOD 1, goddess 2, great 2, mighty 2,
angels 1, exceeding 1, God-ward + 04136 1, godly 1; 2606

1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God
2e) God

 

0433 'elowahh {el-o'-ah rarely (shortened) 'eloahh {el-o'-ah} <IMG src="http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/hs344.gif" align=absMiddle><IMG src="http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/hs345.gif" align=absMiddle><IMG src="http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/hs354.gif" align=absMiddle><IMG src="http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/hs340.gif" align=absMiddle>

probably prolonged (emphat.) from 0410; TWOT - 93b; n m

AV - God 52, god 5; 57

1) God
2) false god

So, I will listen to you but not agree that I am wrong.

Blessings

Click to expand...

It isn't necessary that you agree about your mistake - but it's still a mistake.

eldermike · Jul 12, 2002

we disagree.

Blessings

Auntie · Jul 12, 2002

Thanks eldermike and sauron for your answers to my questions.

Zico · Jul 12, 2002

Hey guys,,

Just found this on the net,, for the people who love to read http://www.sharif.org.uk/bb.htm

I've asked this on an earlier post and will ask all of you again here to try and read this with an open mind.

This is why we moslems reject the bible on its current form.

Brian45 · Jul 13, 2002

Reject the Bible ?

Zico · Jul 13, 2002

Yes Brian45,,, reject.

Brian45 · Jul 13, 2002

Hi zico . People become christians because God has placed a carrot before them , that carrot is eternal life if we believe in his son .

What's in it for me if I were to become a muslim ?

Zico · Jul 13, 2002

The real carrot Brian is that you dont have to pray for any body or any thing else next to God to win eternal life ( you dont have to blow your self with 3000+ poor civilians either ).

30: Lo! as for those who believe and do good works - Lo! We suffer not the reward of one whose work is goodly to be lost.

31: As for such, theirs will be Gardens of Eden, wherein rivers flow beneath them; therein they will be given armlets of gold and will wear green robes of finest silk and gold embroidery, reclining upon throne therein. Blest the reward, and fair the resting-place!

Sura 18 THE CAVE

And bieng a muslim does not mean that you have to turn your back on Christianity. Good muslim people live exactly like good christians and jews.

And i do have a favour to ask you Brian if its fine by you,, try to ask the lord just once, and this time i mean ( ONLY HIM ) without mentioning the words ( FATHER , SON OR JESUS ) just say in your heart: My lord, show me the path that you accept and soften my heart. Ameen

Plain and simple, no mention of the words islam or muslim.

I hope this helps. Peace and blessings of Allah be upon you.

PS. I do do have a solution to the slight problem you seem to be having ( the one that you mentioned on the Holy ghost post ).

Zico · Jul 13, 2002

oooops, Sorry for the do do :sorry:

Zico · Jul 13, 2002

The Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h) said, "Seven people will be shaded by Allah under His shade on the day when there will be no shade except His. They are:

(1) a just ruler;

(2) a young man who has been brought up in the worship of Allah, (i.e.worship Allah (Alone) sincerely from his childhood),

(3) a man whose heart is attached to the mosque (who offers the five compulsory congregational prayers in the mosque);

(4) two persons who love each other only for Allah's sake and they meet and part in Allah's cause only;

(5) a man who refuses the call of a charming woman of noble birth for an illegal sexual intercourse with her and says: I am afraid of Allah;

(6) a person who practices charity so secretly that his left hand doesnot know what his right hand has given (i.e. nobody knows how much he has given in charity).

(7) a person who remembers Allah in seclusion and his eyes get floodedwith tears."

paulewog · Jul 13, 2002

First of all, Allah describes a god that is described in the Koran. "God" and "Yahweh" and "Elohim" describes the God of the Bible. They refer to two different descriptions.

Ok, next up ... Zico, the little 'prayer' you wrote seemed to be a sort of open thing. You did not specifiy who 'lord' is. What good is it to pray to nobody in particular?

I read the Bible, and I believe it is God's Word. That is why I believe in God, and Jesus, and the Holy Spirit ... the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I did not believe just because I asked 'lord' (whoever that is) to show me what to do. For all I know, a demon could easily 'answer' that.

I'm not trusting in my emotions and what I feel is right

Zico · Jul 13, 2002

Well paulewog,,

Replace lord with God if you like, That's it. It's the same.

And no demon will answer your prayer to your lord and mine ( what ever you like to name him from the names he revealed ).

Brian45 · Jul 14, 2002

ha ha

Zico · Jul 14, 2002

Hey Brian45,,

Check the holy ghost post.

Is Allah the same God as The Christian God?

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