Rapture Questions

Originally posted by EugeneS
Do you think that anyone in Sodom expressed any sort of anxiety that Lot was missing? Do you believe that anyone there had 24 hours before filing a missing person’s report? Please realize that there wasn't enough time. Sodom was destroyed on the same day! 

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I have thought that for a long time now. Lot being taken out is a type of the rapture. If the world even notices that the Bride has been taken out of here, I do not think they will pay much attention to it. Mostly because of the events that will be going on in the world that day. Everything will be shaken up.

All events will happen so rapidly (rapture and 2nd coming) that no one will have time to understand what is happening until it's too late. Except for those that are prepared. Lot was warned in his day and so are believers today...

Dosen't the examples of Lot & Noah indicate a "reverse rapture" is actually what takes place?

The wicked people of Sodom were "taken" in Judgement, and Lot was "Left Behind" on earth.

The wicked people of Noah's Day were "taken" in Judgement by the flood (Matt 24:39- "the flood came and took them away"), and Noah was "Left Behind" on earth.

So shall it be in the coming of the son of man:
Matt 24:40-41
"40 Then two men will be in the field: one (wicked) will be taken (in judgement) and the other (righteous) left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one (wicked) will be taken (in judgement) and the other (righteous) left.

By using this comparison, Jesus seems to be saying it is the wicked who are "taken away" and the righteous who are "Left Behind" on earth when the Son of Man comes, which is exactly "as it was in the days of Noah".

LD

You know something. People are not going to know what is going on on that day. They thought Sept 11 was hectic, that will be nothing.
But alas, LastDazed has now got me thinking. What if the Lord does take the wicked to judgement and leaves the righteous. Hmmm, interesting. But....you also have to remember LastDazed, Jesus said He was preparing a place for us and there is supposed to be a new earth. So I don't think Jesus is going to leave us here and take the wicked to judgement.
Alll I know is, and I am right about this, Jesus is coming back! He's coming back and He is taking us christians with Him. Hallelujah!

... I don't think Jesus is going to leave us here and take the wicked to judgement...

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Regarding "one taken, one left," I believe that in Matthew 24:36-44 Jesus is referring to the same "coming of the Son of man" as when he said "immediately after the tribulation of those days... they shall see the Son of man coming" (Matthew 24:29-30). I don't believe that Jesus taught a 3rd coming. Note that Jesus is speaking to the same believers, the same "ye," in Matthew 24:15 that he is speaking to in Matthew 24:42.

In the pre-trib view, how will "one taken, one left" be a secret pre-trib rapture and not an event at the revelation of Jesus, when "even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed... Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Luke 17:30, 36)?

I believe the ones "taken" at the 2nd coming are unbelievers who are killed, just as Noah's flood "took" evil men away (Matthew 24:39-40). The carcasses of the ones "taken" are eaten by eagles and other birds (Luke 17:36-37, Job 39:30, Matthew 24:28, Revelation 19:21).

I believe the ones "left" at the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:40, Zechariah 14:16) will be survivors of the heathen nations that came against Jerusalem, who will be forced to worship Jesus in the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-18), and whom we will rule "with a rod of iron" during that time (Revelation 2:26-29, 5:9-10, 20:4). They will be the ones who will populate the millennium.

The ones "gathered together" at Jesus' 2nd coming are his elect (2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31). So I believe Christians won't be the ones "taken" or the ones "left," but the ones "gathered together."  

Originally posted by postrib
I believe the ones "left" at the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:40, Zechariah 14:16) will be survivors of the heathen nations that came against Jerusalem, who will be forced to worship Jesus in the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-18), and whom we will rule "with a rod of iron" during that time (Revelation 2:26-29, 5:9-10, 20:4). They will be the ones who will populate the millennium. 

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This is interesting. I wonder if you could elaborate on this idea of being "forced" to worship Jesus.

To worship someone or something is a personal choice from ones heart. While you certainly can be "forced" to "go through the motions" and act out "as if" you were worshipping, I am unclear how anyone can be actually "forced" to worship in their heart.

Also, dosen't that negate the entire idea of God given free will? I mean , why didn't God simply force us all to worship him from the beginning, if His ultimate plan is to "force us to worship Him" in the end??

Originally posted by LastDazed
 

This is interesting. I wonder if you could elaborate on this idea of being "forced" to worship Jesus.

To worship someone or something is a personal choice from ones heart. While you certainly can be "forced" to "go through the motions" and act out "as if" you were worshipping, I am unclear how anyone can be actually "forced" to worship in their heart.

Also, dosen't that negate the entire idea of God given free will? I mean , why didn't God simply force us all to worship him from the beginning, if His ultimate plan is to "force us to worship Him" in the end??

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I don't think anyone will be FORCED to worship Jesus, but there will be no overt rebellion. we do know that there will be sin (at least in men's hearts) during the millenial reign due to the fact that after the 1000 years there will be a huge multitude that Satan will marshall when he is released in a last, futile attempt to overthrow Christ.

Hello, I want to comment with Scripture.(Phil 2:10-12 KJV) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; {11} And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. {12} Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

...I wonder if you could elaborate on this idea of being "forced" to worship Jesus...

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"It shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zechariah 14:16-19).

"I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little" (Psalm 2:8-12).

"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear" (Isaiah 45:22-23).

"God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:9-11).