Ethics in dating: Pursuing someone already in a relationship(non-marriage)?

Achichem

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So what do you think? Very wrong, mostly wrong, sometime right, fair game? Please explain(justify).

My story: When I was younger I use to believe that it was wrong in all cases to “steal another man’s girl”; however, this in combination with having a very slow process of starting relationships with girls that I had chemistry with lead me to live an existence with a low amount of prospects(as might be expected). I then choose as a function of my prayers to study the matter further, and one day my observations lend me to believe that many (especially well sought after) women had what I now call “purses” which are boyfriends which they are totally uninterested in but use for status and I assume protection from being hit on. In light of this, I proceeded to “initiate” in these situations where I felt boyfriends were merely purses to great success(if success can said to be had in situation were marriage does not result, which I have deep questions about).This idea has since expanded and continued to the ponit where there is little diffrence in my mind between a single girl and one who is currenlty dating. In all this has lead to great hardship for many men who get thrown by the wayside because of my success “courting” their girlfriends(as a note, I have never had the reverse happen to me). This has also resulted in much hatred at me for the dishonesty of “cheating”.

Here I am about to face this prospect again, and like always I am still unsure, as obviously it is not the most clear “ethical” thing in the world. I not one to say it is fair game, on the other hand, in this crucible of living I have found that a part being mature and responsible at times calls us to use the “black”. I say this firmly believing Christ our model used all types of “ethics”: red, white, and black.

What do you think about this matter? Is dating merely the “courting stage” making this fair game (like in traditional times) or in the modern era has it taken on new meaning?
 

Blank123

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hm... well there's a number of problems with that approach I think.

-How do you know the guy who is dating the girl you're interested in is 'just a purse'?

-why would you want to go out with someone who would use a guy like that?

and

- how do you know that she wouldn't just use you for a "purse"? One guy is as good as the next if you've got no real feelings for them, right? :scratch:

personally I don't think I'd have any respect for a guy who would try to steal me from an existing relationship, but that might just be me :scratch:
 
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Miles

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There's absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing a single woman. If she's not married, then she's still single. Go for it.

Who knows, maybe she's not really into the guy she's with. If she doesn't care much for the other guy, then you're actually doing him a favor. Personally, if I was that guy, I wouldn't want to be with a woman that wasn't into me.

Of course, if she wants to be exclusive with the guy she's with and isn't interested in you, then you should respect that and stop pursuing her.
 
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Macrina

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I would never use a guy in this "purse" way you describe. To do so would be to call my maturity and sincerity into question.

I would never cheat on my boyfriend with another man. I believe in finishing one relationship before starting a new one.

I would never date a man who would hit on me knowing I already had a boyfriend. Whether he intended it this way or not, it would communicate disrespect for commitment to me, and undermine trust. Not to mention the simple fact that I would find it distinctly unattractive.

Sorry to be blunt about it, but from my perspective a guy that hits on someone in a relationship doesn't come across as respecting either person in the relationship and may even seem like a bit of a player. Someone I might have kept as a friend and dated later (when and if I was available) would destroy his chances by not respecting my commitment to a boyfriend.
 
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Echoespeak006

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Yeah, Mac, said it better than I did. It's just disrespectful. It is really aggravating when men make it clear on their intentions to pursue a relationship with you when you, as the female, are not available. It also puts the woman in a weird position, because its almost like the pursuer is trying to sabotage this relationship. Whether the relationship, the woman is good for her or not is really none of your business until she's out of it (barring abuse of some sort, of course.)
 
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Miles

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Macrina said:
I would never use a guy in this "purse" way you describe. To do so would be to call my maturity and sincerity into question.

I would never cheat on my boyfriend with another man. I believe in finishing one relationship before starting a new one.

I would never date a man who would hit on me knowing I already had a boyfriend. Whether he intended it this way or not, it would communicate disrespect for commitment to me, and undermine trust. Not to mention the simple fact that I would find it distinctly unattractive.

Sorry to be blunt about it, but from my perspective a guy that hits on someone in a relationship doesn't come across as respecting either person in the relationship and may even seem like a bit of a player. Someone I might have kept as a friend and dated later (when and if I was available) would destroy his chances by not respecting my commitment to a boyfriend.
You speak of dating as if it was marriage :(. Yeah, if a guy hits on a married woman, he's a creep. This shouldn't be the case when people are merely dating.

It's sad to see just how pervasive this attitude is. Emotional fornication is rampant, and within just a handful of dates, people declare themselves item. Barely even knowing each other, they become exclusive... possibly throwing away years by living in fear (or even sin) with someone that they don't even like very much.

Give me the 1950s, when dating was dating. (or so I've heard)
 
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fungku

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If she is not married, then I think there is a certain element of "fair game" if you really are interested.

If I saw that she was genuinely happy with her current boyfriend, and if he treated her well, I wouldn't pursue anything. It would just be selfish.

If I thought he was a jerk, or thought she might not be happy with him, then I think it might be alright to maybe show her you are interested in her or something subtle. I still think outright pursuit or courting or whatever you want to call it is disrespectful, though. They are not married but there is still a form of commitment there between the two.
 
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2LivIsChrist

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Well i use to like this guy for such a long time, until i found out he had a girlfriend. When i saw her, they looked like they were perfect for eachother. So i just didn't bother with him anymore. I wanted to move on and let God write my love story.
I would say just don't pursue it. Let God handle it. If you are ment to be with this person then God will somehow end this relationship. Don't waist your time trying to get someone that might be ment for someone else.
 
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PastorJer

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Servant4God said:
Well i use to like this guy for such a long time, until i found out he had a girlfriend. When i saw her, they looked like they were perfect for eachother. So i just didn't bother with him anymore. I wanted to move on and let God write my love story.
I would say just don't pursue it. Let God handle it. If you are ment to be with this person then God will somehow end this relationship. Don't waist your time trying to get someone that might be ment for someone else.

I just want to add an Amen to that... I have been in a similar situation just reversed genders... and while it is not easy to sit by and watch... I think that it is the right thing to do, to simply let God handle it... I have kept the whole situation before His throne... and have asked that He do what He wills... God writing my love story is the best option there is in my opinion... Kuddos to you Servant4God
 
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Miles

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PastorJer said:
I just want to add an Amen to that... I have been in a similar situation just reversed genders... and while it is not easy to sit by and watch... I think that it is the right thing to do, to simply let God handle it... I have kept the whole situation before His throne... and have asked that He do what He wills... God writing my love story is the best option there is in my opinion... Kuddos to you Servant4God
That's what I did for years... sit by and watch. Watch them meet, watch them date, watch her get hurt, watch the relationship founder. Was I being more godly by sitting by and watching, rather than maybe asking her out for coffee? (And no, I'm not interested in being a 'rebound guy'.)

How do we know that God is writing a lifelong love story between two people that are just dating? There were many times (mostly in college) when I didn't ask the girl out because she was 'taken' in a dating relationship... only to watch those relationships fail, time and again. Would it have been worth it to take a risk to ask her out? If she rejected me would I have lost any more than by doing nothing? In retrospect, I think action on my part would have increased the possibility of a positive outcome. Instead, I held my tongue thinking it was the right thing to do. But why should somebody like me be a doormat for other guys? How is that honorable... especially when many of those guys will turn out to be abusive jerks? Why should I just stand by and watch the guy break her heart? I'm not going to cheat; I'm not abusive. Besides, women seem to like a man that speaks his mind and has guts.

Anyway, after much consideration and reflection over what I've observed over the years, I have decided to pursue a single woman if I like her and she likes me... regardless of whether or not she is 'taken' in a casual dating relationship. If she's dating a jerk, or simply going out with someone she isn't very interested in, then I may as well do the honorable thing and make my interest known. Not that this has happened since arriving at my decision, but if it does, I will be prepared to act.
 
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mwb

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If I knew she was in a relationship, I wouldn't bother no matter what.

If I am not sure, it's up to her to tell me she is in a relationship. I wouidn't bother even if she told me it wasn't working out.

I don't know if it's unethical to pursue an "attached' woman but it would be a lot of unnecessary aggravation.
 
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Achichem

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little_tigress said:
How do you know the guy who is dating the girl you're interested in is 'just a purse'?
Originally I never dated anyone unless we were friends first. So I had my ways of knowing from observation, but that said, it didn’t take very long once the line was crossed for it not to matter how strong the relationship was, and now my loyalty to the guy at hand seems to be the only major factor.

why would you want to go out with someone who would use a guy like that?
First, I’m still pretty sure it is a sub-conscious thing and in that reality everyone has a dark side; so to me it not really a bad sign of any sort.

how do you know that she wouldn't just use you for a "purse"?
My best guess of why I haven’t been(to the best of my knowledge) is because when it gets to the actual relationship, she predominantly chases me (with a few noted exceptions) :) So it would be difficult.

One guy is as good as the next if you've got no real feelings for them, right?
As a person whose major “study” is “emotions” it’d be hard to find me with someone whose not effected emotionally by me.

personally I don't think I'd have any respect for a guy who would try to steal me from an existing relationship, but that might just be me
Thanks, I may need to hear that! :) I’ll think about it, one question though….

To put it in prospective of the moment: Your with a boy-friend who safe, solid, and nice to you. He listens to you, he cares for you, and he of course make you feel beautiful(some of the time)…that a wonderful place to be, but if along came another guy, one who makes you smile every time your together, make you feel more beautiful than you ever have, and can make you feel secure and fulfilled in a way your boy-friend never has, is it still the better idea for the other guy to keep his distance and not even let you know he interested just because your in a good place?
 
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Achichem

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Echoespeak006 said:
If you were the boyfriend, and found out someone was pursuing your woman, for whatever reasons, how would you feel?
When I was younger it would have bothered me just to have another guy after the same girl(so its relative), however at this point in my life, I don’t think I would care, its her decision not mine, so unless they are stepping over boundaries(such as clear disinterest) I laugh and encourage them to try(In marriage the choice is made forfeit, so in dating I think it should be allowed free[though I have my reservations]).

It also puts the woman in a weird position, because its almost like the pursuer is trying to sabotage this relationship.
I agree…and sadly I am, and the worst thing is I always end up acting quite innocent like that not my intention at all…but then again I still think I offer the better relationship and I’ve always respected their decisions(so I’m not sure how it is disrespect)
 
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Achichem

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Macrina said:
I would never use a guy in this "purse" way you describe. To do so would be to call my maturity and sincerity into question.
That highly encouraging to hear Macrina, now if only more girls followed :)


I would never cheat on my boyfriend with another man. I believe in finishing one relationship before starting a new one.
I hope this isn’t too personal, if so just ignore, but have you even had to face the issue(if so,was it tough)?

I would never date a man who would hit on me knowing I already had a boyfriend.
I believe you however I have my reservations (given my experience in the matter) quite frankly attraction doesn't seem to be a choice.

Whether he intended it this way or not, it would communicate disrespect for commitment to me, and undermine trust. Not to mention the simple fact that I would find it distinctly unattractive.
Again not to be offensive, I have the highest respect, but this to me is a classic example of what I call mind vs instinct and frankly the mind never wins…oh but does it ever sabotage (the number one enemy of being seduced IMHO).

Sorry to be blunt about it, but from my perspective a guy that hits on someone in a relationship doesn't come across as respecting either person in the relationship and may even seem like a bit of a player.
Fair enough

Someone I might have kept as a friend and dated later (when and if I was available) would destroy his chances by not respecting my commitment to a boyfriend.
Often I wish more women thought like you…but given most(at least in my experience) don’t I am left very confused.
 
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fungku

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Macrina said:
Someone I might have kept as a friend and dated later (when and if I was available) would destroy his chances by not respecting my commitment to a boyfriend.
What guy would want to be a "back-up boyfriend" anyway ^_^

Eddy Murphy has another (more vulgar) term for it in one of his routines, but from my experiences, I find a lot of women keep some nice guy friends around "just in case".
 
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Blank123

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To put it in prospective of the moment: Your with a boy-friend who safe, solid, and nice to you. He listens to you, he cares for you, and he of course make you feel beautiful(some of the time)…that a wonderful place to be, but if along came another guy, one who makes you smile every time your together, make you feel more beautiful than you ever have, and can make you feel secure and fulfilled in a way your boy-friend never has, is it still the better idea for the other guy to keep his distance and not even let you know he interested just because your in a good place?


If my relationship is based entirely on how good some guy can make me feel, um... there's a very real problem. I wouldn't find a great love just because I managed to find some guy who can make me feel good... some of the most dangerous guys to get into relationships with are experts at making women feel beautiful and accepted. I'd hope any guy I was dating had a much deeper foundation with me than just being able to make me feel good. :scratch:

And I don't think its something to leave a guy over either. Different people are always going to bring out different sides in me and make me feel different when I'm around them, its something I'll even have to deal with after I've been married for a few years and have had a few kids, but I think that commitment should have some higher precedence over how beautiful some guy makes me feel or how hard he makes me laugh. Dating/courting is no different to me. The commitment may be different in dating than in marriage, but its still there.

And if that second guy you mentioned knew I was in a commited relationship (regardless of whether its dating, engagement, or marriage) and he was still trying to pursue a romantic relationship with me I would just drop him immediately and have nothing to do with him again regardless of how he might have made me feel ;)
 
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Achichem

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little_tigress said:
If my relationship is based entirely on how good some guy can make me feel, um... there's a very real problem. I wouldn't find a great love just because I managed to find some guy who can make me feel good... some of the most dangerous guys to get into relationships with are experts at making women feel beautiful and accepted. I'd hope any guy I was dating had a much deeper foundation with me than just being able to make me feel good. :scratch:

And I don't think its something to leave a guy over either. Different people are always going to bring out different sides in me and make me feel different when I'm around them, its something I'll even have to deal with after I've been married for a few years and have had a few kids, but I think that commitment should have some higher precedence over how beautiful some guy makes me feel or how hard he makes me laugh. Dating/courting is no different to me. The commitment may be different in dating than in marriage, but its still there.

And if that second guy you mentioned knew I was in a commited relationship (regardless of whether its dating, engagement, or marriage) and he was still trying to pursue a romantic relationship with me I would just drop him immediately and have nothing to do with him again regardless of how he might have made me feel ;)
Thank sis, I'll have to think this one over deep. ( :eek: at what it could mean)

Why oh why are women so not strait forward about all this? :(
 
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