Where have all the fasters gone?

catlover · Jun 15, 2006

Lpe04 said:
Fasting (along with prayer) was practiced much in the early Church and the followers of John the Baptist from what I have learned. So where have all the fasters gone? This spiritual exercise/discipline hardly ever seems to be discussed anymore but can have great spiritual benefits and is definitly scriptural. Is our god our belly (Phil. 3:19) or is Jesus our Master over everything, including our eating? Yes, ascetics have gotten a bad rap because of some of the crazy extrememe things done by man in an attempt to "humble" himself over the past decade or so, but look at all the spiritual warriors in Scripture that fasted (and prayed). I like the one expression, "do you live to eat, or eat to live"? Just something to think about.

Can one drink liquids and fast?

Caedmon · Jun 16, 2006

I try my best to fast from meat (or something else) on Fridays. I also fast from solid food for an hour before Mass. Fasting from something during Lent is challenging (talk about 40 days in the desert). I find that it is beneficial though. I heard of other churches fasting for a month as well, maybe it was one of the "purpose-driven" things. Anyway, Jesus said that we can only get through some things through prayer and fasting, so I think it's important, and I know that there are still a lot of people around who do it.

Caedmon · Jun 16, 2006

catlover said:
Can one drink liquids and fast?

I hope so. We humans involuntarily swallow pints of our own saliva every day.

catlover · Jun 16, 2006

Caedmon said:
I hope so. We humans involuntarily swallow pints of our own saliva every day.

One thing I am sure that would help a fast, drink goat's milk. :sick:

JEBrady · Jun 16, 2006

Caedmon said:
I hope so. We humans involuntarily swallow pints of our own saliva every day.

Somthing, up until now, I was pretty unconscious of.
Eww.

faithopelove · Jun 16, 2006

I fast on my own and with my church whenever my pastor calls for a fast. We do everything from complete fasts on yom kippur (no food or water), to the Daniel fast (daniel 10:3). Sometime people give up TV, golfing, ect., but you are supposed to devout that time to prayer.

Father Rick · Jun 16, 2006

catlover said:
Can one drink liquids and fast?

Definitely...

There are actually several different types of fasts listed/described in scripture. The following are pieces of a couple of articles on this subject that I keep on file:

The Bible gives examples of many different kinds of fasting. (The terms "normal fast," "partial fast," and "radical fast" which appear below are not Biblical terms. They are entirely of my own making and simply a way to categorize the different fasts we see in the Bible.)

The Normal Fast: There are very few rules when it comes to fasting. What you do is really between you and the Lord. There is only one fast command in the Bible and that was the fast on the Day of Atonement. This fast was from sunset of one day to sunset of the next (Leviticus 16:29;23:32). Since, people usually don't eat during the night that makes the fast fairly easy, since you can eat again in the evening before retiring to bed. According to the Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible: "The rabbis ruled that one could not eat a quantity as large as a date on this day...According to the Mishna, Yoma 8:1, on the Day of Atonement it is forbidden to eat, or drink, or bathe, or anoint oneself, or wear sandals, or to indulge in conjugal " (Zondervan Encyclopedia, vol 2, 502). Of course, this direction is not from the Bible, but perhaps we can look at that as a template for a "normal fast." So in this type of fast the person abstained from food and liquid for a period of one day (from sunset to sunset). This is a normal fast.

The Partial Fast: In this type of fast, the emphasis is placed on restriction of diet, rather than abstaining completely from eating. Examples are: Daniel, Shadrack, Meshach and Abednego eating only vegetables and drinking only water (Daniel 1:15) and later on when Daniel alone practiced a limited diet for three weeks (Daniel 10:3). Some people would argue that this isn't really a fast at all, but Daniel 10:3 does use the word "mourned" which is a Biblical occasion for fasting (see below) and a common synonym for fasting.

The Radical Fast: This type of fast is one in which the person refrains from both food and water OR simply food (but not water) for an extended period of time. A radical fast can be harmful to your health and in most cases should not exceed three days. An example of a radical fast can be found with Esther and her household. Esther decided to fast for three days abstaining from both "food and water" both "day and night" (Esther 4:15-16). The rabbi Ezra and the apostle Paul also went without food and water for three days (Ezra 10:6-9; Acts 9:9). David is another example of a radical fast. He went seven days without food (but probably with liquid) as a plea to God to save the life of his child (2 Samuel 12:15-20). Fasts that extend beyond three or seven days can be found in the Bible, but these exceptions were based upon direct guidance from God or a supernatural ability given by God to complete the fast. Examples of these extreme fasts are: Moses (Deuteronomy 9:9-18 and Exodus 34:28); Elijah (1 Kings 19:8); and Jesus (Matthew 4:1-11).

C. A fast may be either absolute or partial.

1. Examples of absolute (complete) fasts:
Deuteronomy 9:9, 18 ". . . 40 nights, I neither did eat bread
nor drink water."
Ezra 10:6 "Ezra. . . did eat no bread, nor drink water: for he mourned . . ."
Esther 4:16 "Go, gather together all the Jews . . . and fast ye for me,
and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day . . ."
Acts 9:9 ". . . and neither did eat nor drink"
Acts 27:33 ". . . This is the fourteenth day that ye have tarried and
continued fasting, having taken nothing."

2. Examples of partial fasts (abstinence from certain foods only):
I Kings chapter 17
Daniel 10:3 "I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine
in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks
were fulfilled."

D. There is a place for both the corporate (group) and the individual (personal) fast.

1. Examples of corporate fasts:
I Samuel 7:5-6 "And Samuel said, Gather all Israel ... and they gathered
... and fasted ... "
II Chronicles 20:34
Ezra 8:21-23 "Then I proclaimed a fast ... So we fasted and besought
our God ..."
Nehemiah 9:1-3 " ... the children of Israel were assembled with fasting ..."
Joel 2:15-16 "... sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly; gather the people ..."
Jonah 3:5-10 "the people ... proclaimed a fast ... from the greatest of them
even to the least"
Acts 27:33-37

2. Examples of the individual fast:
II Samuel 12:15-16, 22-23 "... and David fasted, and went in, and lay all
night upon the earth."
I Kings 21:27-29 "When Ahab heard those words, he... fasted, and lay in
sackcloth, and went softly."
Psalms 35:13 "But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was
sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting ..."
Daniel 9:3 "And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer ...
with fasting ..."
Luke 2:36-37 "And there was one Anna, a prophetess ... a widow
of about 44 years, which departed not from the temple, but served
God with fastings and prayers night and day." Acts 9:9 " ... and neither did eat nor drink."

IV. How long should I fast?

A. Bible personalities fasted and sought God diligently until they obtained from God
what they desired (see the examples of Hannah, I Samuel 1:6-8, 17-18; and Paul,
Acts 9:9,17-19) or until the Lord made it evident that what they requested simply
would not be obtained (as in the case of David, II Samuel 12:15-23).

B. The length of a fast may vary.

1. One night.
Daniel 6:18

2. One day.
I Samuel 7:6
II Samuel 1:12; 3:35
Judges 20:26

3. Three days and three nights.
Esther 4:16
Acts 9:9, 17-19

4. Seven days.
I Samuel 31:13
II Samuel 12:16-23

5. Fourteen days.
Acts 27:33-34

6. Twenty-one days.
Daniel 10:3-13

7. Forty days.
a. Moses (at two different times).
Exodus 24:18; 34:28
Deuteronomy 9:9, 18, 25-29; 10:10
b. Elijah.
I Kings 19:8
c. Jesus. Matthew 4:2 (Mark 1:13; Luke 4:2)

catlover · Jun 16, 2006

Thank-you! Father Rick!!!

Is it okay, too, if one works oneself up to a day fast? So far 6 hours is my limit. I am a wimp!

Is the purpose of the fast diminished if one gets into an argument with someone? I know it sounds silly...

KingZzub · Jun 16, 2006

Yes.

No.

Godslilgurlalways · Jun 16, 2006

I couldn't find it but I am going to start a thread asking people if they know of any verses to supportt this

Father Rick · Jun 16, 2006

catlover said:
Thank-you! Father Rick!!!

Is it okay, too, if one works oneself up to a day fast? So far 6 hours is my limit. I am a wimp!

Is the purpose of the fast diminished if one gets into an argument with someone? I know it sounds silly...

There are times when I may only fast a single meal...

A useful help is to drink something if you are getting hungry.

As to arguing... what you will often find out is that when you are fasting/praying all kind of junk in you starts coming to the surface. Don't be surprised if, at the end of a season of fasting, you are not feeling "more spiritual" but rather more aware of your own sinfulness than ever.

One more thing-- fasting without prayer is just a diet. The point of fasting is not just about going without food but rather choosing to pursue the things of God over our own desires.

JEBrady · Jun 16, 2006

Father Rick said:
One more thing-- fasting without prayer is just a diet. The point of fasting is not just about going without food but rather choosing to pursue the things of God over our own desires.

Amen.

KingZzub · Jun 17, 2006

I am going on a nachos fast.

catlover · Jun 17, 2006

Father Rick said:
There are times when I may only fast a single meal...

A useful help is to drink something if you are getting hungry.

As to arguing... what you will often find out is that when you are fasting/praying all kind of junk in you starts coming to the surface. Don't be surprised if, at the end of a season of fasting, you are not feeling "more spiritual" but rather more aware of your own sinfulness than ever.

One more thing-- fasting without prayer is just a diet. The point of fasting is not just about going without food but rather choosing to pursue the things of God over our own desires.

I have been disgusted after fasting wondering "God why are you doing this to me!?"

It's an irrational thought, most of what goes on in my life is my fault.

nephilimiyr · Jun 17, 2006

Fasting that is trying to manipulate God to do something is old covenant and it wont do a thing except make a person skinny and hungry. The only fasting that works in the new covenant is when you are led by the spirit, because our life is by the spirit.

Luke 5:34, Jesus answered, "Can you make the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them?
The answer is no. Hebraic teaching says that wedding feasts take preeminence over all.
5:35, But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; in those days they will fast.
How long did He leave for? Last time I checked it was between the day of Ascension and the day of Pentecost. What happend during the day of Pentecost? The Holy Spirit came down and since then the Church has been in continued (perpetual) feasting! Supposed to have been in perpetual feasting anyway.

God is not far away from us, He's right here inside of us! If you're fasting to get close to God you are useing an old covenant teaching, not a new covenant truth.
You can't make the guests of the bridegroom fast when the bridegroom is with them.

Jesus then goes on to tell a parable about a patch.
Luke 5:36, He told them this parable: "No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old.
What's He saying? Jesus is saying, 'watch out guys because you are always going to be tempted to take pieces out of the new covenant and attaching it to the old covenant because the old covenant is so comfortable, it fits so comfortably with human nature. It likes to think that I can do something to please God, I can do something to earn God's favor. We're always looking for things to do to apease God and we sometimes take a patch of the justification by faith, salvation through trusting Jesus Christ and patch that onto the old covenant and say; now that we're christian we must also do A, B, and C. But Jesus said chuck the old garment completely!

In Pauls letter to the Hebrews in chapter 8 Paul indicates that the old covenant is obsolete. What we need to embrace is the totality of the new covenant in the blood of Jesus. And the new covenant is about the bridegroom and about His bride and it's about partying and feasting. It's not about fasting and placeing heaps of burdens upon ourselves and being morbid, it's about celebration!.

JEBrady · Jun 17, 2006

nephilimiyr said:
Fasting that is trying to manipulate God to do something is old covenant and it wont do a thing except make a person skinny and hungry. The only fasting that works in the new covenant is when you are led by the spirit, because our life is by the spirit.

Luke 5:34, Jesus answered, "Can you make the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them?
The answer is no. Hebraic teaching says that wedding feasts take preeminence over all.
5:35, But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; in those days they will fast.
How long did He leave for? Last time I checked it was between the day of Ascension and the day of Pentecost. What happend during the day of Pentecost? The Holy Spirit came down and since then the Church has been in continued (perpetual) feasting! Supposed to have been in perpetual feasting anyway.

God is not far away from us, He's right here inside of us! If you're fasting to get close to God you are useing an old covenant teaching, not a new covenant truth.
You can't make the guests of the bridegroom fast when the bridegroom is with them.

Jesus then goes on to tell a parable about a patch.
Luke 5:36, He told them this parable: "No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old.
What's He saying? Jesus is saying, 'watch out guys because you are always going to be tempted to take pieces out of the new covenant and attaching it to the old covenant because the old covenant is so comfortable, it fits so comfortably with human nature. It likes to think that I can do something to please God, I can do something to earn God's favor. We're always looking for things to do to apease God and we sometimes take a patch of the justification by faith, salvation through trusting Jesus Christ and patch that onto the old covenant and say; now that we're christian we must also do A, B, and C. But Jesus said chuck the old garment completely!

In Pauls letter to the Hebrews in chapter 8 Paul indicates that the old covenant is obsolete. What we need to embrace is the totality of the new covenant in the blood of Jesus. And the new covenant is about the bridegroom and about His bride and it's about partying and feasting. It's not about fasting and placeing heaps of burdens upon ourselves and being morbid, it's about celebration!.

This sounds plausible if you consider that the Lord returned at Pentecost as the Holy Spirit. This isn't borne out in scripture. So it must be that the Lord's return would be the point when fasting will no longer be an activity we engage in.

The old wineskin is the Old Covenant. That shouldn't apply to the Gentile body of Christ, since we don't come from an OT tradition to the NT, unless we were, say, Hasidic Jews. While the Lord may specifically direct us to fast, pray, read scripture, we don't have to have a word from God to do any of these things. The fact that they are NT devotional practices (ref. Acts 13, below) is enough.

Acts 13:1-3 (KJV)

1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

Acts 14:23-24 (KJV)

23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed. 24 And after they had passed throughout Pisidia, they came to Pamphylia.

1 Corinthians 7:5 (KJV)

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

2 Corinthians 6:4-5 (KJV)

4 But in all things approvinga ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumultsb, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;

2 Corinthians 11:27 (KJV)

27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.

nephilimiyr · Jun 17, 2006

JEBrady said:
This sounds plausible if you consider that the Lord returned at Pentecost as the Holy Spirit. This isn't borne out in scripture. So it must be that the Lord's return would be the point when fasting will no longer be an activity we engage in.

I believe as long as we have the Spirit of Christ in us, the bridegroom is with us.

What isn't borne out in scripture is that these people fasted to petition God for things. Please read my first paragraph again. If you don't understand the first paragraph I wrote you will not read the rest of the post correctly.

The fact that they are NT devotional practices (ref. Acts 13, below) is enough.

Devotional practices if being led by the Spirit to do so, YES. If done to petition God for something, become closer to Him, seeking favor, or to apease God, NO. I thought I had made that abundantly clear. Please, If you wish to correct me on something I said, feel free to do so, but please don't correct me on something I did not say.

Allow me to add this about what I think about fasting. Some people use fasting as a religious method to get closer to God but there is no method, there is only a person. Jesus said "I'm the way"; it's not about methodology, it's about relationship, it's about His presence. Christians don't have to fast or pray for hours to get into His presence, all you have to do is call on His name! All we as christians have to do is say "Father" and God leans over on His throne with an attentive ear and a loving heart towards us, no matter what you have done or how guilty you may feel because God sees us as His righteous children and He treats us as such.
And if that isn't reason enough to celebrate, I don't know what is...

John 1:12, yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God
God isn't looking for performance, He's looking for receptors, people who will open their hearts towards Him and say 'God, if your looking for someplace to touch down and manifest your glory here I am, have at it, I'm yours!'

If you are fasting because you feel you have to earn whatever it is that you are asking God for, the fasting is of no effect. Likewise, if you are fasting to maintain a status with God or to gain a status with God, the fasting is of no effect.

I'm not saying this to condemn anyone here who fasts but wanting to set those people free of an unnecessary burden that they have placed upon themselves. If you do fast, do so with a pure heart, being led by the Spirit, and in devotion to God. Anything other than that makes the fasting of no value and only becomes a burden on you.

Father Rick · Jun 18, 2006

As I mentioned in passing earlier...

Fasting is not about trying to manipulate, or try to gain anything, from God.

Rather, fasting is a spiritual discipline (just like reading the Bible, praying, attending church, etc.) that helps one draw closer to God. It's not a matter of needing a greater place of standing with God, or anything like that-- we are as much fully His as we ever can be, but rather about shutting out our own desires and those things that distract us (aka. crucifying the flesh) so that we can better hear His voice.

Godslilgurlalways · Jun 18, 2006

http://www.christianforums.com/t3088844-need-help-on-finding-verses-on-fasting.html#post24765145

plus found a verse on fasting helped me somewhat to answer my question

But I am posting it b/c it's about Fasting that Pleases God/ BTW someone helped me find this

[BIBLE]Isaiah 58 1-14[/BIBLE]

Where have all the fasters gone?

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