you CANNOT sin!

smaller · Jul 4, 2002

Peace to ALL who set their Hands to Peace!

Romans 8:3

For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh

He condemned SIN, not mankind. MANKIND is not SIN.

Sin and Mankind ARE NOT THE SAME...but sin and mankind "currently occupy" ONE place...that being our fleshly containers.

Paul writes: (from Romans 7):

"So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me."

and

"for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me AND through it (the written law) killed me."

The LAW was written AGAINST SIN and FOR MANKIND! That is one reason Paul says "we uphold the law."

The law is for (written to COMMAND) the lawless ones....SIN!

It is THROUGH THE LAW that SIN is SHOWN or revealed TO US! The COMMANDMENTS CAME to show us that SIN that dwells with or within us BUT is not US.

God gave "the law/commandment" in the Garden to "not eat" and sin quickly came to show itself IN AND THROUGH ADAM! The Serpent showed himself IN ADAM and SPRANG UP and was REVEALED by THE COMMANDMENT!

NOT I, but SIN

...SIN...NOT Paul, NOT you, NOT I! --- SIN

It is SIN that is condemned by The Law! It is THE LIFE OF SIN that we are both to HATE and TO LOSE. It is our father, the devil, that we are to hate...and his "wife" all of "his offspring."

Luke 14:26

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

Now read--- If Adam is a SON OF GOD, then SO ARE ALL OF ADAMS OFFSPRING!

"Luke 3:38

the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

There is a POSITION/PORTION of God in EACH OF US that will NOT either SIN or be held ACCOUNTABLE for SIN!

---God has PLACED HIMSELF into the MIDST OF HIS ENEMIES---satan, demons, and their entire "family."

John 9:

As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth.

And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?"

Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

"We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work.

"While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world."

"When He had said this, He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and applied the clay to his eyes, and said to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which is translated, Sent). So he went away and washed, and came back seeing."

Neither this man NOR his parents sinned!

The most interesting part (to me) is the place where he was told to wash...the pool of Siloam. The translators thought kindly enough to put in the meaning in parenthesis which they always do where there is (perhaps) a vagueness. The (possible) reason for the vagueness is that SILOAM also has a ROOT WORD in Hebrew which ALSO means SENT AWAY.

Siloam {sil-o-am'}of Hebrew origin 7975; n pr loc

AV - Siloam 3; 3 Siloam = "sent"

7975 Shiloach {shee-lo'-akh} or (in imitation of 07974) Shelach from 7971; n pr locAV - Siloah 2; 2 Shiloah or Siloah = "sent"

7971 shalach {shaw-lakh'}a primitive root--

1) to send, send away

1a4) to let loose

1c1) to send off or away or out

So AT THIS POOL we have a picture---the place of washing to receive SIGHT.

The Pool of Siloam (can) mean both Shiloah (The Sent One-Blind Man) and Shalac...(the sent away one-SIN!)

The ONE sent AWAY from the blind man WAS SIN!
SEE?!!! IT was NOT THE BLIND MAN, but THE SINN(ER) that JESUS separated FROM HIM!!!

With His Saliva(word/water), and dust (our bodies) mixed...then washed away for OUR vision.

The blind man did not sin. This is how it is with all of us. It is SIN that SINS, not US.

Now read (the subject matter of this post)

1 John 3:9

No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Yet we know from Paul in Romans that---ALL HAVE SINNED!

Some say The Word does not make sense, and is not inspired BECAUSE OF THESE CONTRADICTIONS. These "supposed" contradictions are NOT WITHOUT A PURPOSE! They POINT and FORCE us to SEEK understanding apart from the natural (sin) mind.

Now we see another ACT OF SIN here:

Galatians 2:11

But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

Paul called Peter Cephas...his old name. His "other" name.

The "name" that SIN spoke through. "Cephas" means hollow Rock. Petros was the "real, solid rock."

Peter was used a few times in text to SHOW that satan(sin-demons) can USE any PERSON, including an "Apostle."

Peter/Cephas----Saul/Paul ----same deal----the old self CONTROLLED BY SATAN and a SLAVE OF SIN...and the NEW MEN. Peter the Rock and Paul the (man of sin put in chains.)

May you wash the mud from your eyes in The Word of the Pool of Siloam and find your way of TRUTH separations through THE WORD!

March through The Word in this way of proper SEPARATIONS on the RIGHT HAND and the LEFT HAND and YOU WILL SEE your MAKER clearly!

There are TWO KINGDOMS....One visible and one unseen...

It is that UNSEEN ONE that will be UTTERLY DESTROYED! Mankind will be SPARED as Sons of God...believing mankind or blinded mankind...Sin will not be HELD AGAINST mankind....

GOD IS LOVE, and HIS WORD is TRUTH! It is SIN that is both the stranger, and the sent away one, NOT YOU!

The PUNISHMENT AND DESTRUCTION scriptures are written to THEM!

and

God is Love to ALL people regardless of what THEY think.

smaller

Mandy · Jul 4, 2002

Sorry, but that is completely unbiblical and false. The Bible teaches that the soul that sins shall surely die.
Those who die in their sins, shall be cast into hell eternally. Only those that believe on Jesus Christ and receive HIm as Lord will be saved. Narrow is the way to life and broad is the road to destruction, just as Jesus said.

OldBadfish · Jul 4, 2002

Mandy, that seems pretty easy, aren't all of us sinning humans going to die in our sins? It seems that since Jesus died for our sins our salvation it is relatively easy.

Mandy · Jul 4, 2002

We will die physically, but no redeemed person will die in their sins, because they have been, well, redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus died so all could be saved, but only those who believe on Him, repent, and are born again will be saved, those who reject Jesus will die in their sins.

OldBadfish · Jul 4, 2002

Exactly, so for a believer, relatively easy? I would say.

stu · Jul 4, 2002

I think that is an interesting interepretation smaller. this is all  biblical evidence for a diffrent god then the one as claimed by the evagelical christians.  so much to the point that an another christian claims your interepretation is "unbiblical." and in ligt of these highlighted passages i have a few questions.

If there can be diffrent interpretations within the christian community how can the word of god be reliably followed?

I am not sure, since the mulitiple sects of christianity have the same "misson" yet many think they have gods blessing.

so who has the right "interpretation" or are the christian's who claim a personal relationship with god being pitted agianst one antother or at least haveing diffrent answer to the same questions?

It all seems rather fishy to me, but that is me.

peace

stu

smaller · Jul 5, 2002

Peace Stu and All!

You have written well Stu.  Let me say in simplicity that IF Gods Word says that ADAM is a SON of God, then it would follow that ALL of Adams offspring are thusly SONS AND DAUGHTERS, and AS SUCH they are portions of PERFECTION.

It is here that I "attempt" to see ALL PEOPLE, as difficult as this can be "in the flesh."

The reason that it is difficult to SEE PERFECTION is because of our "co-occupant" that I attempted to outline in the FIRST POST.  That occupant is one that Mandy DOES NOT SEE in Pauls words, but are there EVER SO CLEARLY.  This co-occupant is called "NOT I, BUT SIN that dwells with me."

So the WORD brings the revealing of the LAWLESS ONE(s) who DWELL WITH US!  There is NO LAW to perfection.

You and I and everyone else Stu, when we are "separated" from our "sin" are indeed PERFECT.  There is nothing against PERFECT!

This is the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel friends.  SIN is not "held against us" but against its' perpetrators who are "of the devil."

And for this I am thankful to see ALL as forgiven to MANKIND, but NONE forgiven against those who do such things. 

It is in this VERY SEPARATION that you are hearing the VOICE OF CONFUSION in Christianity.  MOST want to JUDGE AND CONDEMN to hell their own fellow man and even consign them to eternal torture in the NAME OF GOD.

When RIGHT SEPARATIONS are made then the WORD COMES ALIVE to all of mankind and IT ALL MAKES SENSE!

Yes, God is LOVE and this to all of His Children.

smaller

goodnewsinc · Jul 6, 2002

Hello, ALL!

If any of this is scriptural from the pages of the BOOK, then "smaller" is right!

 "Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world", John 1:29.  Today we are going to force you to "cast your eyes upon Jesus (THE WORD) and look full in his glorious face" as the hymn says!  Those of you who are fearful, timid, and sleepy, and who feel the need to protect and defend errors made by someone else, errors which you have adopted....might as well prepare for electrocution.  Jesus will "shock" you with the lightening bolts of the glory of who he is and what he means to ALL. It is written that "no man knoweth the Son, Matthew 11:25-27, except those to whom the Father reveals him, John 14:21.  I want to introduce you to THE WORD JESUS as you have heard of his glory.... a glory  "spoken against" by those who hate grace, love, and mercy, Luke 2:34,35.  I will also remind you that YOU cannot loosen seals on the WORD OF GOD, Isaiah 29:9-14, Revelation 5:1-5, lest your ego puff up before your eyes and block your vision.  Consider Jesus in:

 THE WORD: HEADLINES (Psalm 19:1-6)

A. Genesis 4:5-7, New English Bible
B. Matthew 12:43-45
C. John 9:3,4
D. Mark 3:28,29
E. Isaiah 43:25, 44:22
F. Isaiah 40:1,2
G. Numbers 23:18-22, Micah 6:5
H. 2 Corinthians 5:19

 Obviously Jesus is the WORD OF GOD coming to you in scripture form "in the volume of THE BOOK", Psalm 40:7, Revelation 5:1, 10:8-11.  What he means to ALL, many voices have acclaimed every Christmas, Easter, and Passover.  But what he means to you may be very short of the real glory when you are face to face with it.  Look at the eight pieces of his flesh, John 6:53,63, our HEADLINES that "ACCUSERS" and their imprisoned human advocates cannot stand to see, to hear, or to eat it, Isaiah 30:8-11.  But it is sweet in my mouth and in my belly quite satisfying!!

 A. Genesis 4:5-7, New English Bible

 "The Lord received Abel and his gift with favor; But Cain and his gift the Lord did not receive.  Cain was very angry and his face fell.  Then the Lord said to Cain, Why are you so angry and cast down?  If you do well you are accepted; if not SIN IS A DEMON crouching at the door.  It shall be eager for you, and you will be mastered by it".  A distinct difference is made between (a) the demon, SIN, and (b) the person mastered by it.  Where God used the nations to prophesy and Israel symbolized ALL MANKIND and Egypt represented the powers of darkness, this DIFFERENCE is maintained, Exodus 11:7.  Here is how demonic "mastery" occurs:

B. Matthew 12:43-45 

 "When the UNCLEAN SPIRIT (SIN) is gone out of a man he walketh through dry places seeking rest and findeth none.  Then saith he, I will go back to the house (human body) from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.  Then goeth he and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that MAN is worse than the first".  Was not the man with the legion found "clothed and in his right mind after Jesus removed his demons?  Jesus keeps the distinction clear between SIN, the evil spirits, and the MAN mastered by them.  And this DIFFERENCE is maintained in Jesus' doctrine as well as the writings of the "GOOD NEWS":

C. John 9:3,4

 "And Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.  I must work the works of him that sent me while it is day.  The NIGHT (demons, Ephesians 6:12) comes when NO MAN can work".  Jesus' WORDS are consistent with the Father's WORDS to Cain.  His statement here is a further extension of HEADLINE "B".  He adds "no man can work" or be credited with SIN... which is a manifestation of demonic mastery over men not doing well whose deeds are "unacceptable".  It is the exhibition of the more worse state of captivity and enslavement of man.  Do you follow me?... as He opens the scriptures for us, Luke 24:27,32.  Throughout time men have not made this clear-cut distinction between the enemy, SIN (demons), and the victims as God and Heaven do, Revelation 12:7-11.  This failure has contributed greatly to man's ignorance regarding God's viewpoints.  Because of this failure and because we maintain  the DIFFERENCE when the night comes and "masters" a man, the following HEADLINE is true:

D. Mark 3:28,29

 "Verily I say unto you, "ALL SINS SHALL BE FORGIVEN UNTO THE SONS OF MEN AND BLASPHEMIES WHEREWITH SOEVER THEY SHALL BLASPHEME: but he (devils who speak through men, Matthew 16:21-23) that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation".  God's word has two edges.  You must discern at all times to which kingdom, of devils or of men, the message or any part of it is sent.  Clearly and consistently Mark 3:28 conforms with HEADLINES A,B, and C.  Verse 29 using the relative pronoun "he" refers to the principalities and powers of darkness, Revelation 13:4-8.  When you understand God's "language" and unchanging ways, you are aware of this DIFFERENCE between (SIN) the demon and MAN is constant at all times.  Also God had Jesus informing us of a continuing process being accomplished in the Heavenly Priesthood for every generation of men sent down on earth or who would be sent down in the future.  Since the Father is God and every day on earth is always TODAY (high noon) for Heaven, the works of TODAY'S everlasting Priesthood were being done in Isaiah's days.  For God, it was a "LIGHT" (enlightening) thing to say:

 E. Isaiah 43:25, 44:22

 "I even I am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy SINS".  So even before Jesus came, erasing and forgetting sins was no new phenomenon for your "Super-Dad", God!  Going further He says, "I have blotted out as a thick cloud thy transgressions and as a cloud thy sins: return unto me for I have redeemed thee".  What do you think would happen to any "prodigal son" if "Dad" said, "Return unto me"???.... Let the redeemed tell you....(but you will have to look up these scriptures)... Revelation 7:9-13, 5:9,10, Isaiah 41:4.  So every man employed as a "messenger" by the Father speaks his language and delivers a timely message rightly divided and in season with heavenly reality.  Here are our "orders":

F. Isaiah 40:1,2

 "Comfort ye, comfort ye my people saith your God.  Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem and cry unto her that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord double for all her sins".  David wrote, "Thy ROD (Jesus) and thy STAFF (Holy Ghost), they comfort me" in Psalm 23.  Every messenger of COMFORT employed by those two will tell mankind that the battle over the souls of men has been fought and won.  God, our victory, has procured, secured, and insured SALVATION FOR ALL and HAS PARDONED ALL OUR SINS.  But the Highest truth is that He does not ascribe SIN to men nor "charge" men with it!!  Most "natural minded" religionists who have been nourished on Dragon's flesh, whose mouths spew Dragon water find such tidings of great joy too hard to say to "all those sinners we are trying to win for Christ".  They do not have the "beautiful feet" Isaiah wrote about in Isaiah 52:7.  Yet God has never changed!  He has shown us the LOVE and GRACE in His Highest thought even in Moses' days.  Observe how the JUDGE reveals His distinction between (SIN) devils and man, where Israel as a nation represents the glory of ALL MANKIND:

G. Numbers 23:19-23, Micah 6:5

 "God is not man that He should lie; neither the son of man that He should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it?  or hath He spoken and shall He not make it good?  HE HATH NOT BEHELD INIQUITY IN JACOB, NEITHER HATH HE SEEN PERVERSENESS IN ISRAEL: the Lord his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.  God brought them out of the land of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of a unicorn.  Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought".  All this is true because God never charges man for the works wrought by darkness regardless of the "appearance of things" with Moses in the wilderness.  There is no inconsistency with God!  Through Micah He pleads, "O my people, remember now what Balak, King of Moab consulted and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]tim to Gilgal; THAT YE MAY KNOW THE RIGHTEOUSNESS (RIGHT JUSTNESS) OF THE LORD".  So...what God told Cain was true in Moses' days.  As a JUDGE, He does not always have to allow any man or nation of men to bare responsibility for the SIN-WORKS demonic-Egyptians forced them to do "with rigor".  Here God chose to manifest His "Highest" thought to "lighten" up the record.

H. II Corinthians 5:19

 ...."God was in Christ, reconciling the World unto Himself NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES UNTO THEM; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation".  This last HEADLINE is true for Adam and Eve, ancient Israel, and every human being to the last baby to be born for all the reasons in the preceding discussions.

This is truely the real "gospel"!  Jesus was born specifically to save the world!  He died to take away all our sins, John 1:29, Isaiah 53:1-6.  Father did not say I will do this for "believers only".  That is the misunderstanding of human thinking!

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come
short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Our thoughts are not like God's thoughts and our ways are not His ways, Isaiah 55:8-10.  Where men with the "elder son" attitude do exclude "sinners and unbelievers" in their doctrines, Father and Jesus INCLUDE ALL "prodigals" with believers that they might have mercy upon all. If anyone does not like this, take your "beef" to the Saviour of the World and His Father who sent him!  Can you praise Jesus for being a SUCCESS in his birth and death purposes?!  Then say, "Amen"!  Smaller is a lot BIGGER than you think!  Look up on the Throne and discover his Head!

GOOD NEWS, Inc.  :wave:

SimpleChristian · Jul 8, 2002

stu....in answer to your question....

....three people are in a cafe when a man comes in and robs the place. When these three witnesses are questioned by the police, they all give different detail of the man, but none of them the same detail. Does that mean that they are all wrong?

People speak of contradictions within the bible. Funny, I have YET in ALL my years to have a person point out even ONE that stands. Not one.

smaller....whoa....but hey...you don't have to worry about sinning cause, guess what?!? In the book of Luke Jesus tells us that all we have to do to be saved is to give a stranger a glass of water!!! Isn't that great! Heck, the whole salvation thing is just off huh? No need for any of that. Jesus just went through the crucifixion that day cause he was bored, right? When He had already said all it took was offering a stranger a glass of water.

There is a little word called CONTEXT that you may want to look up friend.

smaller · Jul 8, 2002

You'll have to be more specific than the word "context" SimpleChristian.

It is true, that you and I will have completely different views of a term such as "unbeliever."

Most "simple christians" want to damn their fellow man with the word.  It is a well written document that cannot be opened with damnation in hand to "others." 

To those who walk in damnation to their fellow man the Bible remains a contradiction filled book, as a short walk with your presumptions will discover. 

smaller

SimpleChristian · Jul 9, 2002

smaller....please show me some of these vaulted contradictions. I've seen many, many of them so far...and have yet to see one that is truly a contradiction. But at least I have you have something 'better' then the whole 'rabbits don't chew chud' thing.

I agree with you (I think...haven't been able to completely reason out what you think yet) that any person who calls themself a Christian who delights in 'damning' (again, not exactly sure what YOU mean by this since no person has the power to damn another, regardless of what they say) their fellow man....that person really needs to examine what they are trying to hide from themself, what 'sin' they are trying to cover up by pointing out the sins of others. HOWEVER, there is a world of difference between telling a person that what they are doing is against God as revealed in Scripture in a loving, Christian way....a world of difference between THAT and 'damning' a person or 'judging' a person.

I love it when people try to pull out that verse in John about 'judge not....." without bothering to read before and after that verse.....

smaller · Jul 9, 2002

Peace SC:

A couple observations were made in the lead post. If you have comment on them, heave ho.

For your edification and reasoning abilities I believe that God controls ALL THINGS and that ALL THINGS are BY HIM, FOR HIM, AND THROUGH HIM.

I also believe that ALL of mankind will not have a single sin held to their account and that ALL of mankind are redeemed by the Blood and The Life of Jesus Christ.

smaller

SimpleChristian · Jul 9, 2002

So...are you saying that you believe that all people, before the end, will come to faith on their own in Jesus Christ and forget all about Muhammad, Shiva, etc, etc. If so, great idea but highly unlikely.

Or are you saying that God is some sort of cosmic rapist who is going to force Himself on everyone regardless of what they want, think or feel? If so, then that is not the God of the Bible, that god would be a monster who would not be worthy of worship by the lowest life form.

Or are you saying that each 'religion' has a 'right' piece of the 'puzzle' and that none are wrong and that we are all going to put our pieces together some day soon and find out the key to peaceful existence? That's a bit too new age (read...devilishly misleading) to me and also quite unbiblical.

There are really no points to address in your first post because you have developed a premise based on verses taken completely out of context.

You are trying to make a 'concept' (sin) be an actual 'being' which is simple ludicrous(sp?) and, to be honest, downright silly. That is like one of those wackadoo false teachers popping up all over today (aka benny hinn, et al) perverting what the bible actually says, helping people to push off what THEY do on things like demons (it was the krispy kreme demon that made me eat that donut....not my lack of willpower).

You can sin....everyone does sin....and your premise makes the god you are presupposing nothing more than a nihlistic and sadistic monster, sending his son to die on a cross for nothing.

Geez

smaller · Jul 9, 2002

Peace SC!

SC:
So...are you saying that you believe that all people, before the end, will come to faith on their own in Jesus Christ and forget all about Muhammad, Shiva, etc, etc. If so, great idea but highly unlikely.

s:
Salvation is only in Jesus Christ. We also know through WORD that if some are blinded to the Glory of the Gospel, it is THE ENEMY that blinds them. Jesus Christ was MANifested to DESTROY the works of THE DEVIL, not to destroy MANkind. Indeed the flesh WILL PASS, but the Spirit will abide IN TRUTH once separated from SIN at DEATH. Truth is not moved by the thoughts of mere men.

SC:
Or are you saying that God is some sort of cosmic rapist who is going to force Himself on everyone regardless of what they want, think or feel?

s:
The false notion that MANkind is ABLE to GIVE God Love and must do so by CHOICE is a false notion INDEED. Love of the God style is not pleased by love of the mere mortal style. MANlove adds NOTHING to God. Man has not added ONE THING to God and will not SUBTRACT one thing from His Purposes. He knows EXACTLY what He is doing and NO GUESSES on manKINDS part will change ONE THING.

SC:
If so, then that is not the God of the Bible, that god would be a monster who would not be worthy of worship by the lowest life form.

s:
You would think that it is better that God tortures the majority of mankind in burning agony then as a kinder monster??? LOL with that logic.

SC:
Or are you saying that each 'religion' has a 'right' piece of the 'puzzle' and that none are wrong and that we are all going to put our pieces together some day soon and find out the key to peaceful existence? That's a bit too new age (read...devilishly misleading) to me and also quite unbiblical.

s:
Not in the least. See Previous. Every WORD of God is PURE GOLD and it is REVEALED in Israel, and CULMINATED in Jesus Christ alone.

SC:
There are really no points to address in your first post because you have developed a premise based on verses taken completely out of context.

s:
No response to pointless innuendo.

SC:
You are trying to make a 'concept' (sin) be an actual 'being'

s:
I gave SPECIFIC SCRIPTURES for the position. If you have counter, please provide. I do not come unarmed.

SC:
which is simple ludicrous(sp?) and, to be honest, downright silly. That is like one of those wackadoo false teachers popping up all over today (aka benny hinn, et al) perverting what the bible actually says,

s:
Well behold! I agree with you that the "spirit" operating in B. Hinn is not of God. I am also not interested in pointless tirades.

SC:
helping people to push off what THEY do on things like demons (it was the krispy kreme demon that made me eat that donut....not my lack of willpower).

s:
AS previously stated, the position is there for you to observe. You have nothing but your manmade opinion as a counter so far.

SC:
You can sin....everyone does sin....

s:
I have never said that SIN is OK, so save putting words in my mouth...they came from yours...again...

SC:
and your premise makes the god you are presupposing nothing more than a nihlistic and sadistic monster, sending his son to die on a cross for nothing.

s:
I recognize the "accusers" voice very quickly. It is one APART from Word.

Thankfully

God is LOVE, even to SC.

smaller

SimpleChristian · Jul 9, 2002

Oh wait....are you one of those latter-days that believe that God is just love? Do you ignore the REST of his aspects.

Also....where are you getting the idea of 'eternal torture'. Hell is eternal seperation....a place created at first for the rebellious angels, but where God also LETS people go when they want no part of HIM. The only torture is the eternal seperation from God that occurs by human choice.

But....so we don't muddy the issue to much, here is a straightforward question that can't be danced around.

What happens to a person who is not saved, according to the Word (Roman 8:9-12, Ephesian 2:8-10, etc), upon their death? Where do they go....and why?

smaller · Jul 10, 2002

If you have no position I understand that...

When and if you want to address the lead post, feel free

smaller

SimpleChristian · Jul 10, 2002

SC: So...are you saying that you believe that all people, before the end, will come to faith on their own in Jesus Christ and forget all about Muhammad, Shiva, etc, etc. If so, great idea but highly unlikely. s: Salvation is only in Jesus Christ. We also know through WORD that if some are blinded to the Glory of the Gospel, it is THE ENEMY that blinds them. Jesus Christ was MANifested to DESTROY the works of THE DEVIL, not to destroy MANkind. Indeed the flesh WILL PASS, but the Spirit will abide IN TRUTH once separated from SIN at DEATH. Truth is not moved by the thoughts of mere men. SC: Your answer is an evasion of the question. So answer pleasewhat will happen to the spirit of those who reject Christ after their flesh dies?

SC: Or are you saying that God is some sort of cosmic rapist who is going to force Himself on everyone regardless of what they want, think or feel? s: The false notion that MANkind is ABLE to GIVE God Love and must do so by CHOICE is a false notion INDEED. Love of the God style is not pleased by love of the mere mortal style. MANlove adds NOTHING to God. Man has not added ONE THING to God and will not SUBTRACT one thing from His Purposes. He knows EXACTLY what He is doing and NO GUESSES on manKINDS part will change ONE THING. SC: again, this is an evasion that does not answer the question.

SC: If so, then that is not the God of the Bible, that god would be a monster who would not be worthy of worship by the lowest life form. s: You would think that it is better that God tortures the majority of mankind in burning agony then as a kinder monster??? LOL with that logic. SC: God tortures? Really? Ohthat fire and brimstone Hell thingsorry, but Hell is simply a seperation from God for eternityit is God giving people after life what they desired in life.

SC: Or are you saying that each 'religion' has a 'right' piece of the 'puzzle' and that none are wrong and that we are all going to put our pieces together some day soon and find out the key to peaceful existence? That's a bit too new age (read...devilishly misleading) to me and also quite unbiblical. s: Not in the least. See Previous. Every WORD of God is PURE GOLD and it is REVEALED in Israel, and CULMINATED in Jesus Christ alone. SC: again, you evaded and did not answer the question. Or are you saying that the other religions are wrong? If so, what happens to their adherents after death?

SC: You are trying to make a 'concept' (sin) be an actual 'being' s: I gave SPECIFIC SCRIPTURES for the position. If you have counter, please provide. I do not come unarmed. SC: Really? Ok, please quote me the scripture where we are told that God created the sin entity.

SC: and your premise makes the god you are presupposing nothing more than a nihlistic and sadistic monster, sending his son to die on a cross for nothing. s: I recognize the "accusers" voice very quickly. It is one APART from Word. SC: show me how that logic is flawed.

God is wrath, justice, mercy, love and many other attributes, especially to those who twist His words, even people like smaller J

goodnewsinc · Jul 10, 2002

Hello, ALL!

Question: If God, the Supreme Judge, does not call a matter "sin", or if He, as Judge, does not count it and apply it to someone, SHOULD WE DO SO? Can a man be MORE JUST and right than God? Now when the US Supreme Court decides a matter, that is the END of it and every lower court decision to the contrary is NULLIFIED! When God decides a matter, the same precedent applies!

Now what will all wise human religionists do with this?

2 Corinthians 5:18. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19. To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Who is the Boss in our Family?! Is it the preachers and churches on earth? or should we think according to the "decision" of the Supreme Judge and accept His thoughts and His ways, Isaiah 55:7-10? Here is the mind that has Wisdom: "think like God"! You will always be "right"!

GOOD NEWS, Inc. :clap:

smaller · Jul 11, 2002

SC: So...are you saying that you believe that all people, before the end, will come to faith on their own in Jesus Christ and forget all about Muhammad, Shiva, etc, etc.

s:
The Word tells me that most of mankind is BLINDED to the Good News of Jesus Christ by the enemy. Light destroys darkness. What then lacks for those in darkness??? Is it THE WORD that KILLS the Blind Man or the ENEMY???

SC:
If so, great idea but highly unlikely.

s:
Nothing is impossible for God. Nothing.

SC: again, this is an evasion that does not answer the question.

s:
What question are you referring to SC?

SC: again, you evaded and did not answer the question. Or are you saying that the other religions are wrong? If so, what happens to their adherents after death?

s:
See the parable of Lazarus. Also SEE:

Romans 6:7
for he who has died is freed from sin.

Romans 1:18
But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves.[1:18 Or] [who prevent the truth from being known.] (Who might this be??? hmmmm???)

Romans 2:1
You may be saying, "What terrible people you have been talking about!" But you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you do these very same things.

Romans 3:9
Well then, are we Jews better than others?[3:9 Greek [Are we better?] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.

SC: You are trying to make a 'concept' (sin) be an actual 'being' s:
I gave SPECIFIC SCRIPTURES for the position. If you have counter, please provide. I do not come unarmed.

SC: Really? Ok, please quote me the scripture where we are told that God created the sin entity.

s:
Already provided and overlooked by you (or rather the one who would keep you from SEEING it.) Here is another one just for kicks:

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things have been created through Him and for Him.

SC: and your premise makes the god you are presupposing nothing more than a nihlistic and sadistic monster, sending his son to die on a cross for nothing. s: I recognize the "accusers" voice very quickly. It is one APART from Word.

SC: show me how that logic is flawed.

God is wrath, justice, mercy, love and many other attributes, especially to those who twist His words, even people like smaller

s:
I agree that the position of Truth may not be in accordance with your predisposition. That is irrelevant. I can only know Truth by the Light of His Word. His Word is Truth! He will UTTERLY DESTROY the CAUSE of unrighteousness and the Word reveals who that is, and IT AINT mankind!

God is Love.

smaller

Thunderchild · Jul 12, 2002

Smaller: The most that can be said is that a saint (A christian who has attained to maturity, and is perfected) cannot sin. However, in all ordinary circumstances, a Christian can and will sin. Given the number of times that the epistles address sins committed by Christians, there is no other way to resolve the conflict with such statements as "does not sin, indeed he cannot" - and even that resolution has a number of question marks hanging over it.

you CANNOT sin!

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Sheep in Wolf's clothing

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