Conterfeit Bibles Being Made

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Nazaroo

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There is some cause for concern.

Modern versions of the 'bible' have hacked out about 5% of the traditional text, based upon shakey 19th century critical results.

Sadly, we are only just beginning to have a real grasp of the evidences and their significance, and preliminary analysis appears to indicate that the previous textual scholars were trigger-happy excisers of readings. Their over-edited 'corrected' texts are unreliable guides of the contents of Holy Scripture.

Fortunately, there are many scholars of all persuasions and styles that are willing to try a more conservative approach to reconstruction and restoration.
 
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justified

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Justified why would you say not to believe anything I read on that site? When I found the site nothing to me seemed like it was harful to my faith. What is your reasoning behind your statement?

I'm not saying they won't accidentally say something that's true. What I am saying is that the purpose of the site is off-base and that everything they try to say is poorly-written, lying, polemical garbarge. Or at least everything I've read, which is more than I'd wished I had.

So, for example, I'll take just one of these in detail for you, to show how they mislead. I'ma philologist, so the study of literature and language is my speciality, especially in the OT. But anyone can figure this stuff out if they just look it up -- I view AV1611 as attempting to mislead people for whatever reason. PS: I urge you to open your bible to Isaiah 14 for this...


Is. 14. Most counterfeits confuse the Lord Jesus Christ with Lucifer. They replace the word "Lucifer" with "morning star, day star, star of the morning". Morning star is a title reserved for the Lord Jesus in Revelation 22:16. This is also the only time the word "Lucifer" is found in the Word of God. In Isaiah 14:15 the counterfeits do not send Lucifer to "hell" but only to the confusing "Sheol", or the "grave".

Now first of all, no one here is 'confused.' The word Lucifer is a Latin word, and it comes from the Latin translation of the Bible, called the vulgate, made by a Christian in the early church. So let me trace for you the translation:

הילל בן-שחר = helil ben-shachar (Hebrew, original composition)

Translation: "morning star, sun of shachar/the dawn"

ο εωσφορον ο πρωι ανατελλων = ha ewsforon ha prwi anatellwn (Greek translation, c. 3rd century BC)

Translation: "the star which rises in the morning"

lucifer qui mane oriebaris (Latin Vulgate, AD sometime)

Translation: "Lightbearer that rises in the morning"

The word Lucifer is cognate with the Latin word "luce" (if you've done spanish, the word for light is "luces") and the Greek word for "carrier", ferwn. Hence my wooden translation, "lightbearer." Basically, it means star in this context. Ignore for the time that you were taught that the word "lucifer" meant Satan.

So we have three translations which mean "day-star" and are associated with the morning somehow. So let's go back to the passage an examine it (and I'll even do this from the beloved KJV) to figure out what the meaning is:

Isaiah 14 begins this way, in verse 4:

That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon,

Already we know the subject: the king of Babylon.

He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. (v.6)

The Neo-Babylonian empire sweeped through Syria, Palestine and other parts of the world and devestated everything. Isaiah, before this, prophecies its end for its treatment of peoples. Notice that the king of Babylon is called "he who rules the nations."

Verses 10 and 11 are still talking about the king of Babylon, haven been laid low and become like the dead. So why not verse 12 about "the star of the morning"?

It must be about the King of Babylon, in fact -- once again the nations pop up in this verse. The following poetry concerning his attempt at heaven is not about Satan: it's about the man on the throne of the nations, their ruler, attempting to become the ruler of everything. In his heart he said he would be like God, that he might be more powerful (kings were often worshipped as gods).

So then, why compared to a star? Why the "morning" star? The answer is, oddly enough, in astronomy:

What 'star' rises in the morning? It's the same as rises in the evening before all the others -- Venus. It's not a star at all, but to the Hebrews, they would not have known the difference. It just looked like a star that was out of place. Think about what we call Venus: Planet. The Greeks held a similar belief to the Hebrews about the stars -- they had orderly patterns that could be followed. Certain stars, however, appeared erratic. They went backwards, then forwards, then seemed to loop; they were unpredictable. Hence, they named then "wanderers" -- the Greek word being planew, where we get our word Planet. In our passage, this tradition is being drawn upon -- the King of Babylon is the star who has wandered out of God's order and will be cast down.

disclaimer: I know this is a long explanation, but it's the right one. It takes a long time because it's complicated, and because we are so far removed from the Hebrews that it is hard to describe what they were thinking. But if you take the time, it really is knowable!
 
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mark53

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Lfoxx said:
Hi everyone,

I have recently discovered that conterfeit bibles are being made daily. I did some research with the references that I came across and was astonished to findout that bibles are being made that have versus changed taken out ( I know there are diffrent versions of bibles) I am not reffering to the diffrent versions. Stories taken out words changed around. It breaks my heart at how far the enemy and his followers will go to confuse us or bring doubt to new believers. To my dissbelief both mine and my husband were conterfeits. I had this matter weighing on my heart and I had to share it. I am curiouse to see who elses bibles were also counterfeits. Please check the link below.

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/counterfeit.html


:o

They also say that all versions before them are wrong as well. God did not just want a version decided by Committees in the 1600's to be a political tool between the King of England and the RC Church. There is a book which I have just returned to the library which names the committees that translated the manuscripts, how they did this and the rules attched to it. It is very interesting. Even the Apochrypha had its own committee.

The KJV was a brilliant version which opened up the Bible to many people who did not have an English translation. But they were seriously lacking in some manuscripts and had to rely on previous translations because of this. They weren't also allowed to change much of what was done previously.

If Christians have to go around knocking the Bible because they don't like some translations - how does this come across to non-Christians. A joke!

If one likes the KJV or the NIV or whatever version they like - good on them. As long as they search the Scriptures for God, Search themselves for God and try to do what he wants, great!
 
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Lfoxx

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Justified how do you explain the following.

Luke 16:23 Many counterfeits refuse to translate the Greek word "haides". Rather than translate "haides" to the word "hell", the counterfeit will transliterate the Greek word "haides" into the English "hades". By this trick the counterfeit attempts to extinguish the flames of hell. Hades is not "hell". Hell is flames, torments, weeping and wailing, complete darkness – forever. Hades is a new-age place of purification, or a fantasy place in Greek mythology. The Assyrian Hades is an abode of blessedness with silver skies called Happy Fields.

You don't think calling hell (hades) as mentioned above could be missleading.I think it could be confusing to people reading the bible. You said that you studied literature. How can you not think that this translation is not missleading. Honestly I think having a side note of what hell is and listing it as happy fields is pretty much an oxymoron.
 
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justified

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Feel free to bring a few of these that really click with you to me. I've been familiar with what this site does for a long time, so every chance I get to show their deception makes me happy.

Luke 16:23 Many counterfeits refuse to translate the Greek word "haides". Rather than translate "haides" to the word "hell", the counterfeit will transliterate the Greek word "haides" into the English "hades". By this trick the counterfeit attempts to extinguish the flames of hell. Hades is not "hell". Hell is flames, torments, weeping and wailing, complete darkness – forever. Hades is a new-age place of purification, or a fantasy place in Greek mythology. The Assyrian Hades is an abode of blessedness with silver skies called Happy Fields.

The Greek word Αδης (hadēs not "haides" as the site puts it) occurs in 11 verses in the New Testament. The term does not simply mean "hell" in the sense of the English word; our word "hell" means an enternal place of torture. This is far more like Revelation's "Lake of Fire" than the Greek Hades, which was a waiting place. Thus in Revelation 20:13-14 Death and Hades "give up their dead" and then they themselves are thrown into the Lake of Fire -- the "second death." You can't throw "hell" into "hell." -- you throw Hades into hell.

When not using the term "Lake of Fire" there is still another term in the New Testament used for "hell" in the sense of place of burning. This is not a Greek word, but an Aramaic one, which comes into Greek as γεεννα geena. The Aramaic word is a contraction of the words for "valley" and for "hinnom" -- the Hinnom Valley which is just to west of the hill of Jerusalem (and the modern day Mt. Zion). In New Testament times, we know from other sources this was a garbage dump, the pit where there was constant burning and smoldering. This word occurs 12 times (more than Hades!) and is translated as "hell" by the versions AV1611 is attacking.

I think I've shown that we have reasons for translating as we do -- we don't know what exactly the picture of Hades was, so we choose just to transliterate (put the Greek word in) rather than make something up or be wrong, like AV1611. We know from the Lukan story of Lazarus and the Rich man that it was very unpleasant, but it was not the final, eternal death/punishment: we know that from Revelation. It was more like the Hebrew concept of She'ol, the "grave," than anything else I know of. (It it has nothing to do with Assyrian..)
 
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Ave Maria

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Jipsah

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justified said:
Alright, yoiu guys, enough. We know the problems with KJV-onlyism. That wasn't the point of this thread; the point was a discussion of specific arguments from a specific website. Get over it.
The big logical problem is the a priori assumption that the KJV is the best translation possible, and that therefore any deviation from it must be in error. The assumption itself is an article of faith, resting upon nothing in particular.
 
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