Please HELP: Passover Seder

BT

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Hello MJ friends,

I'm desperately trying to find some information for a research paper, and I'm hoping that you folks will be able to help me. What I need is the following information:

The earliest known origin of the Passover Seder
The time from whence it was practiced
The resource where this information is found

If anyone has this information I would be very grateful. I have found much information about the Passover Seder but I can't seem to find anything on it's origin etc.

Please, and thanks!

BT
 

Sephania

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The earliest known origin of the Passover Seder
Numbers 9:1-14 1 And the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the first month of the second year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying, 2 Let the children of Israel also keep the passover at his appointed season. 3 In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it. 4 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, that they should keep the passover.

5 And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel. 6 And there were certain men, who were defiled by the dead body of a man, that they could not keep the passover on that day: and they came before Moses and before Aaron on that day: 7 And those men said unto him, We are defiled by the dead body of a man: wherefore are we kept back, that we may not offer an offering of the LORD in his appointed season among the children of Israel? 8 And Moses said unto them, Stand still, and I will hear what the LORD will command concerning you. 9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto the LORD. 11 The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. 12 They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it. 13 But the man that is clean, and is not in a journey, and forbeareth to keep the passover, even the same soul shall be cut off from among his people: because he brought not the offering of the LORD in his appointed season, that man shall bear his sin. 14 And if a stranger shall sojourn among you, and will keep the passover unto the LORD; according to the ordinance of the passover, and according to the manner thereof, so shall he do: ye shall have one ordinance, both for the stranger, and for him that was born in the land.


The time from whence it was practiced

approx 1500-1400 BCE

The resource where this information is found

Numbers 9 - The Torah - Book 4

:)
 
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BT

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So you would say that the specifics of the Seder are the "rites of it and the ceremonies thereof"?

The Maror, Charoset, Karpas, Z'roa etc (would be the rites and ceremonies...)?

So the rites and ceremonies, the relating of the different foods to the symbolism of the Exodus... that all came from Moses, and is the "rites and ceremonies" that the Bible speaks of? And this retelling of the History while eating these things was done from the very institution of the Passover?

(This is a critical point of research - that's why I'm asking so specifically... ) and Thank-you very much so far!!
 
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shmuel

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The Scriptures mention the lamb, bitter herbs, and unleavened bread plus the blood on the lintel and door posts. The rest of the ceremony was added later, probably much later.

From an internet article:

In the first half of the twentieth century, Lewy, Baneth, Krauss, and Goldschmidt drew attention to the fact that the forms of the Seder are based on Graeco-Roman table manners and dietary habits. But the most detailed evidence of this borrowing was provided in 1957 when Siegfried Stein published “The Influence of Symposia Literature on the Literary Form of the Pesah Haggadah” in The Journal of Jewish Studies.(4) Since then, Stein’s basic thesis has been adopted with variations by various scholars who have written about the origins of the Seder. (5) Stein proved in a very convincing fashion that many of the Seder rituals and literary forms found in Mishnah and Tosefta Pesahim and in the Haggadah were borrowed from the Hellenistic banquet or symposium. Let us first compare the rituals.

Source:

http://judaism.about.com/od/passover/a/seder_golinkin.htm
 
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Sephania

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BT said:
So you would say that the specifics of the Seder are the "rites of it and the ceremonies thereof"?

The Maror, Charoset, Karpas, Z'roa etc (would be the rites and ceremonies...)?

So the rites and ceremonies, the relating of the different foods to the symbolism of the Exodus... that all came from Moses, and is the "rites and ceremonies" that the Bible speaks of? And this retelling of the History while eating these things was done from the very institution of the Passover?

(This is a critical point of research - that's why I'm asking so specifically... ) and Thank-you very much so far!!

That is not what you originally asked. :)

What I need is the following information:

The earliest known origin of the Passover Seder
The time from whence it was practiced
The resource where this information is found

It seems as if you are speaking of the modern celebration of the Seder which means order. The order which the Passover is kept. When it happened in Egypt, that was 'THE' Passover , ever since then it has been a memorial, first enacted in the book of numbers I quoted, a year from the Exodus. Now up until the temple was destroyed the Lamb was slaughtered each 14th of Nisan. But since there is no temple since 70CE, the Rabbis have decided to replace that with a token, a Lamb shank bone put on the 'Seder plate' a dish set aside specifically for this Holy Day. On it includes the bitter herbs to represent the bitterness of slavery.

They are to eat the lamb, together with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

As you can see the only commanded foods for this memorial are lamb, matzah and bitter herbs. Bitter herbs are usually represented by Horseradish and endive or parsley and the parsley is used to also dip in salt water to represent the crossing and also the bitter tears shed in Egypt while awaiting redemption.

As you probably know there were other things added to the Seder plate.

The Egg, this came out of Babylon and I have heard it signifies many things, the burnt sacrifice they can no longer do ( no temple) or egg represents life which also is used at Shiva sittings right after burial, so the egg is deeply embedded in Judiaism practices, but does not come from the ordinaces of G-d for the keeping of Pasach. Also the Charoset ( apples and honey) , that is added to the plate to represent the mortar used by the Isralites, to remind us of the slavery we were once in.

Of course the matzah is a big part of the Seder. But the tradition of the Matzah Tosh and the Afikomen, I believe comes from the times of Yeshua, and this telling got added in to the Telling which is commanded that we tell our children, to show who the true Passover was. Yeshua. The whole story points to Yeshua, even though 'pre-beliving' Jews who do this don't see it yet, but when G-d takes away their blindness they will!

Do you know what the afikomen is and the ceremony regarding it?

Edited to add, you might want to take a look at this volumn of the Talmud http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/t03/index.htm it is on the laws of Passover ( by the Rabbis of course) but may help you regarding when certain things were added. :)
 
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