Unitarian Universalism

Rae said:

Given the polytheist and atheist membership of UU churches

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A polytheistic unitarian? Hehe, sounds like an oxymoron to me. But seriously, I think I get it:
The UUs used to be unitarians (in the traditional sense) but have changed their beliefs completely in recent times. The Judeo-Christian heritage is no longer an integral part of the Church, but rather a "voluntary" part. But that's not all, there is a schism between the European and North American UUs, the European UUs tend to be unitarians but the NA not so much.
Do I understand it correctly, roughly at least?

With that, I am kind of left with a confusion as to what identifies a modern UU, it seems they can be anything. What makes a UU a UU? See what I'm saying?

MOD HAT ON

When discussing UU's please keep in mind that while there are non-christians who attend, there are also christians who attend and it is not acceptable to group those categories together and label them all non-christians and calling them all out.

If a specific individual says they are a non-christian UU, that is fine, but don't assume they all are.


MOD HAT OFF

LibraryOwl said:

I ask this out of curiosity more than anything else:
Proclaim your God to me. Proclaim him as Paul proclaimed mine to the greeks (Actst 17.) I want to know this God that you are worshipping, who I have never heard of.

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*Looks at Acts 17 to remind myself of the sort of thing you want* — I hope you don't mind me basing it heavily on Paul's words.

The God who both is and extends beyond the universe and everything in it, and who is the absolute reality of the universe, does not live in shrines made by men. It is not because it lacks anything that it accepts service at human hands, for it is itself the universal giver of live and breath and all else. To God, every race of men and women are of one stock. They were to seek God and, it might be, touch and find it; though indeed it is not far from each one of us, for in it we live and move, in it we exist. We ought not to suppose that the deity is like an image in gold or silver or stone, shaped by human craftsmanship and design, but that it is both eternal and ineffable.

And this is what I was asking before. Why did the UU's change their beliefs so drastically? Did they cease being guided by God? Did they suddenly discover God's guidance? Did God change his mind and reveal that he was suddenly for all sorts of things he was formerly against?

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No, no and no.

Or, did we never really know who God was, and simply place a new guess based on New infromation?

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Yes.

And so, I impolre you, seek out this "God" whom I prclaim, and you shall find him. He is not far from you, but actually right there with you everywhere you go(Acts 17.) By reading the bible, you will not be reading the tibble of man, but actually the real and actual words of this unknown "God" who I worship. And through his words he shall become known to you, and you shall discover him that was always there with you. This I promise in Jesus' name.

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We shall see.

You may think this is strage, but I tell you this: Our God is not like other Gods! He is not an idol worshipped in temples, nor does he dwell in a house in Mecca, nor does he take the form of an eagle and suduce little boys. Rather, he is perfect, all powerful, and mighty! He is merciful, forgiving and loving! He is REAL and LIVING!

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Agreed entirely.

If you study nature and the scriptures carefully, you will not fail to notice this!

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Thus it is your view that anyone who doesn't share your beliefs completely has merely not studied nature and the Bible carefully enough?

Homie said:

The UUs used to be unitarians (in the traditional sense) but have changed their beliefs completely in recent times.

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That's sort of right, although many of us are still Unitarians in the traditional sense.

The Judeo-Christian heritage is no longer an integral part of the Church, but rather a "voluntary" part.

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Yes, or at least in Britain, Ireland, Germany, Denmark, the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa (not to say that it only applies to them).

But that's not all, there is a schism between the European and North American UUs, the European UUs tend to be unitarians but the NA not so much.
Do I understand it correctly, roughly at least?

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That's sort of right, although it actually isn't quite as simple as a general Europe vs. North America. For example, the Deutscher Unitarier Religionsgemeinschaft, which is the main German Unitarian denomination, are often considered to be the least Christian-orientated Unitarian organisation. But then, the British, Irish and Danish Unitarians are perhaps considered more Christian-orientated than the German and North American Unitarians, but less Christian-orientated than the Romanian, Hungarian, Czech, French and Norwegian Unitarians.
You might be interested in this: http://www.unitarforbundet.org

With that, I am kind of left with a confusion as to what identifies a modern UU, it seems they can be anything. What makes a UU a UU? See what I'm saying?

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Yes, I see what you're saying. I usually see us as a liberal religions, perhaps Christian-orientated, organisation which affirms and promotes the inherent worth and dignity of every person, believes in an independent search for truth and recognises that there is more to life than the physical.

Alright, thanks for the link btw, I read their beliefs and it seems the Norwegians fit what my preconceived idea of a unitarian was closer than the others. Except they did not give the Bible authoratative value, and do not believe Jesus was risen after He was crucified, this surprised me.

Personally I was for a short while in the Unitarian camp, not a Unitarian Universalist by any means, but a Unitarian belief of my own, which can be described:
A belief that the Bible is the authoratative inspired word of God, but that the scriptures reveal one God, not a triune God, and that Jesus was more than human, He was the son of God, but He was not God. I believed the scriptures showed this, this is in fact why I turned toward Unitarianism, because I believed the scriptures showed this. Although after more careful study I have come back to the trinitarian camp, as it does indeed seem like the scriptures does support the trinity, logic doesn't, but I guess this is where I have to trust God.

ZOZIW said:

If a specific individual says they are a non-christian UU, that is fine, but don't assume they all are.

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And nobody said so.

A belief that the Bible is the authoratative inspired word of God, but that the scriptures reveal one God, not a triune God, and that Jesus was more than human, He was the son of God, but He was not God. I believed the scriptures showed this, this is in fact why I turned toward Unitarianism, because I believed the scriptures showed this.

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That sounds similar to beliefs which are promoted by the following website:
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com
It also sounds quite similar to the beliefs of the Christadelphians — do those exist in Norway?

Found this the other day and thought it was hilarious. Figured it might be fun to inject a little levity into the thread.

http://www.jesusisaliberal.org/Z_040805_Unitarian_Jihad.html

Homie: Yeah, what Hartland said. UUs tend to organize around general liberal religious principles, not specific theology per se, but what unites liberal theologies (like belief in a search for truth, etc.). There are a lot of organizations with names from their roots which don't necessarily describe them as well in the modern day. UU is just one of them.

hartlandcat said:

That sounds similar to beliefs which are promoted by the following website:
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com
It also sounds quite similar to the beliefs of the Christadelphians — do those exist in Norway?

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I don't know, I don't think so though. But then again, I didn't know there were UUs in Norway, in fact I had never heard of UUs before I stumbled upon this thread, I had no idea they were so big.

Mandrake, that was hilarious!! :rofl:

I don't know, I don't think so though. But then again, I didn't know there were UUs in Norway, in fact I had never heard of UUs before I stumbled upon this thread, I had no idea they were so big.

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We're actually not very big — there are an estimated 6,000 of us in the British Isles. But we like to think that significantly more people actually share are views and values.

LOL — very funny, Mandrake! I'm sure that was written by a Unitarian as well.

Here's another funny one — a song based upon 'I am the very model of a modern major general' from the musical the Pirates of Penzance:

I am the very model of a modern Unitarian,
Far broader than a Catholic, Hindu, Jew or Presbyterian;
I know the worlds religions and can trace their roots historical
From Moses through to Channing all in order categorical.
I'm very well acquainted, too, with theories theological,
On existential questions I am always wholly logical,
About most any problem I am teaming with a lot of views,
I'm full of fine ideas that should fill our church's empty pews.

We're full of fine ideas that should fill our church's empty pews!
We're full of fine ideas that should fill our church's empty pews!
We're full of fine ideas that should fill our church's empty empty pews!

I quote from Freud and Jung and all the experts psychological,
I'm anti-nuke, I don't pollute, I'm chastely ecological;
In short in matters spiritual, ethical, material,
I am the very model of a modern Unitarian.

In short in matters spiritual, ethical, material,
I am the very model of the modern Unitarian.

I use the latest language; God is never Father or the Lord,
But Ground of Being, Source of Life or almost any other word;
I never pray, I meditate, I'm leery about worshipping;
I serve on ten committees, none of which accomplish anything.
I give to worthy causes and I drive a gas-conserving car,
I have good UU principles, although I'm not sure what they are;
I'm open to opinions of profound or broad variety...
Unless they're too conservative or smack of righteous piety!

Unless they're too conservative or smack of righteous piety!
Unless they're too conservative or smack of righteous piety!
Unless they're too conservative or smack of righteous pie-piety!

I formulate agendas and discuss them with the best of 'em,
But don't ask me to implement, we leave that to the rest of 'em;
In short in matters spiritual, ethical, material,
I am the very model of today's religious liberal.

In short in matters spiritual, ethical, material,
We am the very model of today's religious liberal.